Race Car Build

[351Escort]

Hi All

Currently building a 944s for racing.

Are there any racer's on here that can give me some pointers.

All info will be greatly appreciated.

What tyres do you run, what size J rims and do you run the same all round. Is it best to upgrade the front brakes to S2 or fit Boxster calipers ?

Nice Forum by the way.


Thanks in advance.
Darren.

 

[Neil Haughey]

Hi Darren, all of those things depend on the regulations for whatever series/championship you intend to run the car in. For PCGB as an example the widest wheels allowed on an S2 are or where 8" so we ran 16x8 all round on some combination of 225 wide or 245 wide tyres. Its personal preference to some extent as some guys prefer the staggered setup but being able to rotate the tyres front to back helps with wear so is an advantage for the money saving racer to run the same size all round. For tyres I think all of the MSA list 1B options have their pros and cons, people argue endlessly about which tyres are best honestly I don't think any one tyre has the edge because there are too many variables so take your pick from R888, cups, dz03g, v70, A048 etc. Biggest thing I learned is to get a decent known set of suspension/geo then spend the next period of time (1 year or more) just getting that all setup perfectly, tyre pressures, cambers, corner weights especially and learn how to drive it to get the most grip out of it. Make sure you have plenty of money and time to this bit and don't bother spending money on stuff like more power, extra weight saving etc. until this bit is nailed down. This was the bit I got badly wrong back in 2011. I had a good weekend at Silverstone even though my front shocks had gone and the cars setup was a mess. I then went chasing mods on the car rather than getting the thing setup properly resulting in a car which was almost undriveable. Seems so obvious now looking back but just couldn't see it at the time.

 

[Cater_Racer]

Depends on race series, in the CSCC most use Toyo R888's. My car runs KW coil-overs and re-indexed torsion bars, polybushed set-up with stiffer ARB's I'm using S2 calipers, which are fine. Gerry Tom & Gerry Motorsport.

 

[John Sims]

As noted above, it is all down to what series you intend to run in, although there is nothing wrong in being compliant to run in several. Motor sport is very much a social thing and all series have a different feel. Visit them all and see where you best fit in. You don't want to be an old budget blaster in a paddock full of rich kids arriving in their Ferrari 10 minutes before practice who have their "Man" deliver and prep the car. Once you have established where you might fit in then talk to as many people running in that series as you can. There will be tricks that all employ, favoured suppliers who offer good rates etc. There will be anomalies in the regs which all exploit and unfathomable regs which all will have a standard solution. The long and short is you want the series that best fits your budget. You don't want to be the only car on the grid with old tyres, and one day of testing, when everyone else has a sellection of new scrubbed tyres every race and test at every circuit several times a year. Unless it is a specific model based series you are actually better to chose the series and then buy the car that is most likely to be competitive. Aside safety preparation (and even this varies from series to series) you can not build a race car without knowing in which series it is going to race.

 

[Andy97]

I race a 924S in CSCC races. The car is prepared to a fairly basic standard but has thicker anti roll bars and as much camber as I could get and its also lowered slightly. There is a thread about the car on the 924 bit if the forum with more details. I use standard brake calipers with Ferodos pads and have used both Toyo 888s and Yoko A048s and at my level, they are much of a muchness. I was put off the Michelin PS2 by EMC Motorsport who told me that they were rubbish in the wet. Tbh most List 1b tyres are poor in the wet but I guess some are very slightly less poor than others. EMC swear by the Dunlop Direzzas but the BMW racers in the same series all seem to prefer Kumhos! One thing I will say is that my 924S handles far better on 15x8 wheels all round than it did on 16 x 8. Just seems better balanced and there's less under steer.

 

[351Escort]

Thank you all for your useful comments. I should of said i am looking to compete in the CSCC Future classics. Hi Gerry, did have a conversation with you at Brands Hatch. Thanks again for your time on race day.

 

[Neil Haughey]

ORIGINAL: John Sims The long and short is you want the series that best fits your budget. You don't want to be the only car on the grid with old tyres, and one day of testing, when everyone else has a sellection of new scrubbed tyres every race and test at every circuit several times a year.

Sounds like racing with Porsche Club, lol. Can work the other way though, Mark Sumpter gave me a set of Michelin Cups for nothing in 2011. He had used them to test and they weren't even 1/3rd worn but he was racing to win the championship that year and always buying new tyres. On the money side ask and add up what a realistic budget is then multiply x2. If one can't afford that then you need to decide if you are happy just making up the numbers. It isn't said enough as most don't think about it but the two biggest things which put it in for me for racing in the end were not to do with budget or ability, I just found I could never set aside enough time each year to get round and do all the testing, prep and race weekends to attack a season. The other thing was I got really sick of all the travelling. I live in one of the most beautiful places in the country but was heading off up to some hole of a place spending several hours on motorways rather than heading down the beach. I still absolutely love driving the car though which is why I scrimped and scrapped the house deposit money without selling her.

 

[Neil Haughey]

ORIGINAL: 351Escort I should of said i am looking to compete in the CSCC Future classics.

Good choice, by far the best place to race a 944 for the past few seasons.

 

[Andy97]

ORIGINAL: Neil Haughey

ORIGINAL: 351Escort I should of said i am looking to compete in the CSCC Future classics.

Good choice, by far the best place to race a 944 for the past few seasons.

And with a class specifically for the n/a 944 (and the 924S and turbo)

 

[351Escort]

And a friendly bunch, everyone i spoke to at brands had time to chat

ORIGINAL: Andy97

ORIGINAL: Neil Haughey

ORIGINAL: 351Escort I should of said i am looking to compete in the CSCC Future classics.

Good choice, by far the best place to race a 944 for the past few seasons.

And with a class specifically for the n/a 944 (and the 924S and turbo)

 

[MarkK]

Future Classics is ace fun I did it in a 944 and had lots of fun,I like the 40 minute race length aswell. Porsche club is a lot of fun too and they have a new class 3 that looks less costly than 1 and 2. If racing is something you always wanted to do,make it happen,you only live once,glad I had a go,I think it's all about seat time most people become quite quick with a bit of time at the wheel. Let us know what you decide to do.Best of luck.

 

[944 man]

Are they welcoming 951s again...? []

 

[Andy97]

ORIGINAL: 944 man Are they welcoming 951s again...? []

CSCC have always welcomed them! (But I know you weren't talking about CSCC!)

 

[944 man]

I'm familiar with CSCC Andy - my father raced in it two or three years ago! It was, of course, a light-hearted dig at the club for excluding the giant topping, but also very cheaty, 944 Turbos from the championship.

 

[351Escort]

Well some good progress made on the cage this weekend.

 

[944 man]

Custom Cages? Id give a great deal of though to the height of the drivers side door bar. Ideally they run in line with your thigh and through your hip. In a 944 this means that the ideal position is lower than that which people usually select.

Impact aside, they end up being a safety concern because they obstruct your egress to ridiculous levels and that should be picked up by the scrutes.

 

[351Escort]

Hi Simon

Thanks for the heads up. I will look into this before finalising the position of the door bar.

Darren.

 

[TonyKart]

Hi, watching with interest, just awaiting delivery of this -

Is a S that has been raced in castle combe sports cars, sporadically over the past few years.

After talking with the owner/builder it sounds like it has quite a few good bits on it, will be using it mainly for track days, while I build my Turbo, which is taking longer than I wanted due to work commitments.

 

[Neil Haughey]

Its the front top part of the X that is the problem Simon alludes to, it gets in the way of your legs when trying to get in and out. The 944 has a fairly compact cabin and low roof line such that the gap left between the X and the top of the door aperture is a bit on the small side. Its even worse in boxsters though, the cage is ridiculously tight in those. Simon is also right about the intent of X bars, they work best as intended in hatchbacks where one typically sits a long way up from the floor and hence the sill is a long way down. In the 944 the sill is only a handful of inches below hips but I think looking at the issue from the point of view of the impact is more important as ultimately the bars are there to protect you from side impacts and in those terms its the centre of mass of the thing crashing into the car that is the pressing issue. ISTR in mine with the SD cage part of the X bars forms a nice arm rest.

I know its not the sort of thing cage designers don't like but if I was doing it all again in either the 944 or another car I think I would leave the front top part of the X out (Y shape instead) such that egress is much easier. I have seen one 944 with an SD cage like this and its something Kevin Eacock (EMC Motorsport) I can recall talking to me about several years ago. Only thing that would stop me from doing this is if MSA regulations prevented it, but AFAIK both the SD and Custom Cages designs are way in excess of MSA requirements currently, ISTR the Custom Cages design is fully FIA compliant for top level motorsport.

 

[944 man]

A far more eloquent and less rushed explanation from Neil.

I would consider finalising the seat position before deciding on the door bar's final location. This cage doesn't have an extra vertical section so the space wont be as restricted as some 944s Ive seen.

Neil is, of course, correct in suggesting that the door bar's role is partly to prevent side intrusion from vehicles riding up over the sill (which provides much of the driver's side protection), but I would still resist the urge to place the spar more than a few inches over the sill top, and I would definitely not remove the side impact protection from the driver's side door either. If you can use it to help you get out then it's in the right place: if it is an impediment to your speedy egress then it's too high, in my opinion.