Schroth Harness
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Hacki
Active member
Right, and be also careful with the buckles. In case someone has the old original blue buckle, don´t use it. There was a safety warning by Porsche in March 1993 (Porsche reference no. VKGB no / dz) that these buckles broke in accidents, because the bottom was not strong enough. They had to be replaced by black ones. It didn´t take long to have that done. This refers only to the original Schroth harnesses with a blue buckle as used in the early 90s. They were sold to anybody, Porsche used them as factory equipment. So the owners of cars with these buckles received that safety warning mentioned above by Porsche. Rgds Hacki
Thanks Hacki! The one on the car at the moment is black. Melv, its simple. There are 5 screws on the bottom of the buckle, that opens the buckle up inside. The strap it is held on to, is only secured by a slightly different pin (one without lugs on the top), so that it doesnt open when the buckle is twisted. So I can either swap the hole buckle or just use the pins that are in the best condition. Then reassembly (is the reverse of...no) is a case of putting all the springs back together, having a steady hand, and being deft with the screwdriver whilst still holding the whole thing together.
On the newer (or cheaper? [
]) plastic ones there are only three screws in the back. You can release the fixed pin by depressing it with a 2mm dia pin/rod/allen key through the coresponding hole in the face of the buckle. As you push the pin in you can feel the fixed retaining pin compressing on its spring - it is quite stiff. Gently pull on the belt tag as you are doing it as once the pin is depressed far enough the belt tag should slide over the top of it. To refix the buckle push down the pin, as above, until there is sufficient space to slide the belt tag over the pin. You should only need to take the buckle apart if you want to change the position of the fixed pin. The above is far less entertaining than chasing springs around the garage of course.
]) plastic ones there are only three screws in the back. You can release the fixed pin by depressing it with a 2mm dia pin/rod/allen key through the coresponding hole in the face of the buckle. As you push the pin in you can feel the fixed retaining pin compressing on its spring - it is quite stiff. Gently pull on the belt tag as you are doing it as once the pin is depressed far enough the belt tag should slide over the top of it. To refix the buckle push down the pin, as above, until there is sufficient space to slide the belt tag over the pin. You should only need to take the buckle apart if you want to change the position of the fixed pin. The above is far less entertaining than chasing springs around the garage of course.
have not followed all the thread - but it seems a long way to get a working harness? If the buckle is a twist/rotate it is illegal for road use in any case. If for track, a new one would seem in order. also, I recall getting something good advice from scroth themselves last year- their uk dealers (3 off) are all pretty useless in my view. let me know if you want an email address - i may still have it somewhere. cheers
Alex D, you state a twist/rotate buckle is illegal for road use,, are you sure about this?....the only reason I ask is that on a 964/993 M003 clubsport they are not fitted with seatbelts, only harnesses with this fixing, myself and others do not seem to have a problem with passing the MOT test with such a harness alone.
as sure as I can be, the read somewhere that if you use the harness they need a big red push button. I doubt the mot folks look for this, in fact I think the mot tests are not precise. But when I investigated there was an ec directive and something on some UK gov pages. I went through this when I got my ones for the 964 and gt3. The logic is that in a crash the emergency services may not be able to get you out as the twist/lock are not that easy to undo if you are not use to it - whereas a big red button saying PRESS is. Anyway I opted for the push button versions. I will see if I can dig out the text I saw. The harness vendors tend to cite the "street legal" or not on their products, and it does depend on country. As Scroth makes a big deal of it I assume in Germany it may be more of an issue. But I did check UK gov pages also. Will dig more!
The issue with legality is i think more to do with them having e markings (under construction and use regs) very few(maybe none !) twist rotate belts have e markings and are listed as FIA compliant rather than ec compliant. Most ec belts are push button. I believe the road legal schroths are also push button. I don't know if the 64's and 93 clubbies had push button schroths or twist/ rotate as standard? People obviously do fit later belts too ! I remember dessies clubbie had push button schroth. Cup Cars would have twist rotate for FIA compliance i guess ?
Dessies clubbie has twist harnesses as per photo above! I believe they are original too, the FIA dating certainly makes them period belts Are you sure, you memory is correct on Minty, or has Des swapped the belts at some point? As for legality, I just cant see that an SVA centre would get that stuff wrong, they are the body that imposes these laws on low volume cars afterall.
Hacki
Active member
Laurence, the twist rotate on my Cup car was road legal only for one reason : Porsche factory had a special permission (Regierungspräsidium Stuttgart, reference no. 27-415 Porsche 1 from 28th Dec. 1989) It´s the answer to Porsche´s request from 15.12.1989, Porsche reference no. EGG4 La-ka. That permission says that the belts don´t have to be officially labeled. It´s as simple as that in fact. It also includes a few more extra permissions to have a Cup car road legal. This permission mentioned above was limited for the 50 Cup cars of the first series. So every permission belongs to a certain vehicle and carries the individual VIN of that vehicle. Maybe there´s something similar for 964 RSs. A belt system of today that is road legal (ece labeled) and FIA labeled is Schroth Profi III-asm, either 4-point or 6-point. And it´s push button. Rgds Hacki
Hi, Just checked with my pal at Sabelt and he says:- "The full harness belt is road legal, if it has the Ece approval and the standard clubman buckle 'clunk click' type ![[FONT=verdana,geneva"]](/forum/styles/default/pcgb/space.gif ". [FONT=verdana,geneva\"]")
Its not possible to have an aircraft buckle type with Ece approval unless Porsche did this at the crash test pre-production stage of the vehicle. I suspect they did not!" Hope this helps. [8|]Regards,Clive
Its not possible to have an aircraft buckle type with Ece approval unless Porsche did this at the crash test pre-production stage of the vehicle. I suspect they did not!" Hope this helps. [8|]Regards,Clive
Hacki
Active member
Cup cars had a single seat and Schroth 2 inch twist rotate belts (red straps and blue buckle). The blue buckle was replaced later by a black one which had a more solid bottom. The original stuff is old and belongs into the shelf. Replaced mine with 3 inch 6-point Schroth Profi III-asm, which is fine. Rgds Hacki
They are the belts I bought the car with ... have a lot of fun with the crutch strap!!!
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