Scoobie
- Thread starter Alpine
- Start date
The engine is noisy (not in a good way; they need the loud exhaust to mask the horrible noise they make), fragile and ridiculously thirsty (23mpg from mine with Miss Daisy in the back, more like just under 20mpg using the motorway normally and 13mpg just having a bit of fun on the road). They are brisk rather than fast (especially the early ones) which makes that fuel economy all the more ridiculous. Of course they can be made faster, but the fuel economy can only get worse and you're eating into the margins of safety with the engine which already has that fragility problem, specifically they are prone to piston slap and big end failure. If you get an import it needs 100RON fuel so you need to run it on Optimax and still add octane booster or it will detonate itself to an early grave. Service intervals are 7,000 miles which is short enough to be a real pain if you cover a decent mileage in one.
Looks are in the eye of the beholder and to be honest I don't mind the "Classic", but they do have a problem with a chav image and even 4 years ago mine attracted attention from bald blokes with bulldogs and 5 year old boys in a way I was far from comfortable with. More importantly they are made of metal so thin that you can probably see through it if the paint is removed. Rest your eyes on them too heavily and they dent. Inside they are more Nissan Bluebird minicab than aspirational rally icon with loads of cheap plastic and a layout that could be used to define bland. The seats in mine were the only good point, but as it was an RB5 and the seats were part of the special edition spec so that may not even apply to an early mainstream model. Mine was the only car I have had since a 70's Escort that had nothing lining the boot except a layer of very thin carpet substitute on the floor.
Contrary to popular opinion they don't handle well at all. What they have is a fairly high level of mechanical grip, but they understeer massively (which is no fun at all) and when you back off to get the front end under control they they switch instantly to 45 degree oversteer. OK that can be fun, but the guy in the Mk4 Escort I was inside of on a roundabout one of the times it happened to me didn't seem to think so (in fact I wasn't best pleased either on that occasion in particular). Again you can probably address that with modifications, but that's all £££££. Last thing to consider is that even if you expect 4wd to let you corner faster you need to remember it doesn't help you brake any better than a 2wd car and I nearly came a cropper on day 2 of ownership because of that.
The dealers in my experience were abysmal. I mean really bad; worse than Alfa Romeo by a huge margin. I asked one dealer 5 times for a quote for a WRSport rear spoiler and never got it; "oh yeah, you asked for that before, didn't you..?". I also had a problem where occasionally the car would dramatically reduce power for a period that was never really diagnosed. It was under warranty and I took it in for that problem one time and told them the "check engine" light had come on a few times. I got a courtesy car for a day but at the end of it they hadn't found the fault. I asked about the check engine light and they said the ECU had logged a lambda fault so they reset it. They didn't actually replace the lambda sensor until I asked them pointedly if they thought maybe it would be a good idea to do so under the circumstances. They also took the courtesy car back after a day and kept my car for the rest of the week so I had to make my own arrangements and eventually returned the car to me with nothing done at all bar the lambda I told them to replace. To cap it all I finally got so sick of the car I traded it in. With 52,000 miles on a 40 month old car no Subaru dealer would touch it as it was "high mileage" so I traded it against a new SEAT Ibiza. It was going to be too much overdue for a service so I booked it into a dealer I hadn't used before for one on a Wednesday. I got it back with a dent in the passenger door that "must have been there before, mate" and on the following Monday after having traded it on the Sunday (so 4 days after the main dealer service) with 750 miles since service I got a call from the SEAT dealer saying it had no oil in it and the engine needed to be rebuilt. The sump plug was in place and there was no sign of a leak so I have to conclude it didn't have enough put in by the dealer at service. Of course it didn't warn me with a low oil level or oil pressure warning so I drove it in ignorance - it had only needed topped up once between services in the past so I didn't check it so soon after the dealer had dealt with it.
So, I speak from experience. It was certainly up there in the running as the worst car I have ever owned. I'd stick with the Prelude, or failing that pretty much anything else you can lay your hands on ahead of the Scooby.
Looks are in the eye of the beholder and to be honest I don't mind the "Classic", but they do have a problem with a chav image and even 4 years ago mine attracted attention from bald blokes with bulldogs and 5 year old boys in a way I was far from comfortable with. More importantly they are made of metal so thin that you can probably see through it if the paint is removed. Rest your eyes on them too heavily and they dent. Inside they are more Nissan Bluebird minicab than aspirational rally icon with loads of cheap plastic and a layout that could be used to define bland. The seats in mine were the only good point, but as it was an RB5 and the seats were part of the special edition spec so that may not even apply to an early mainstream model. Mine was the only car I have had since a 70's Escort that had nothing lining the boot except a layer of very thin carpet substitute on the floor.
Contrary to popular opinion they don't handle well at all. What they have is a fairly high level of mechanical grip, but they understeer massively (which is no fun at all) and when you back off to get the front end under control they they switch instantly to 45 degree oversteer. OK that can be fun, but the guy in the Mk4 Escort I was inside of on a roundabout one of the times it happened to me didn't seem to think so (in fact I wasn't best pleased either on that occasion in particular). Again you can probably address that with modifications, but that's all £££££. Last thing to consider is that even if you expect 4wd to let you corner faster you need to remember it doesn't help you brake any better than a 2wd car and I nearly came a cropper on day 2 of ownership because of that.
The dealers in my experience were abysmal. I mean really bad; worse than Alfa Romeo by a huge margin. I asked one dealer 5 times for a quote for a WRSport rear spoiler and never got it; "oh yeah, you asked for that before, didn't you..?". I also had a problem where occasionally the car would dramatically reduce power for a period that was never really diagnosed. It was under warranty and I took it in for that problem one time and told them the "check engine" light had come on a few times. I got a courtesy car for a day but at the end of it they hadn't found the fault. I asked about the check engine light and they said the ECU had logged a lambda fault so they reset it. They didn't actually replace the lambda sensor until I asked them pointedly if they thought maybe it would be a good idea to do so under the circumstances. They also took the courtesy car back after a day and kept my car for the rest of the week so I had to make my own arrangements and eventually returned the car to me with nothing done at all bar the lambda I told them to replace. To cap it all I finally got so sick of the car I traded it in. With 52,000 miles on a 40 month old car no Subaru dealer would touch it as it was "high mileage" so I traded it against a new SEAT Ibiza. It was going to be too much overdue for a service so I booked it into a dealer I hadn't used before for one on a Wednesday. I got it back with a dent in the passenger door that "must have been there before, mate" and on the following Monday after having traded it on the Sunday (so 4 days after the main dealer service) with 750 miles since service I got a call from the SEAT dealer saying it had no oil in it and the engine needed to be rebuilt. The sump plug was in place and there was no sign of a leak so I have to conclude it didn't have enough put in by the dealer at service. Of course it didn't warn me with a low oil level or oil pressure warning so I drove it in ignorance - it had only needed topped up once between services in the past so I didn't check it so soon after the dealer had dealt with it.
So, I speak from experience. It was certainly up there in the running as the worst car I have ever owned. I'd stick with the Prelude, or failing that pretty much anything else you can lay your hands on ahead of the Scooby.
skendrick
New member
Sorry to contradict you Fen but my mate has had his mkI from nearly new and the service he has been A1, far better than alfa (I had the 156 V6 so I know about their servicing skills). As the car is out of warrenty then go to a specialist for servicing as we do, the one in Newbury my mate uses is very well known in the scooby world.
You cannot say they are brisk at 5.5secs to 62 and I havn't been in that many cars that corner as well as the scooby (for the money).
They are made of plastic inside and noisy and poor mpg that is true but you need to drive one and make your own mind up.
Go onto the scooby websites and see what they have to say.
You cannot say they are brisk at 5.5secs to 62 and I havn't been in that many cars that corner as well as the scooby (for the money).
They are made of plastic inside and noisy and poor mpg that is true but you need to drive one and make your own mind up.
Go onto the scooby websites and see what they have to say.
steve 944t
Member
reading between the lines, I get the impression that Fen's love affair with the scoobie was short-lived.[
]
I, on the other hand, am onto my third Impreza. I had a standard MY99 followed by an RB5 WRSport prior to buying my 944. In these 2 I racked up about 40000 totally trouble-free miles. I genuinely had not one mechanical problem. Lucky perhaps. I have recently bought an MY99 estate (sorry, wagon - the scoobynet crowd are very touchy about people calling it an estate, rather looses the hardman weekend rally warrior image [8|]). This is my daily runner.
I agree completely with Fen's comments on the Imprezas failings - handling is average at best, disguised by massive grip. Not good if the grip runs out... The brakes are barely adequate (and the MY99 onwards finally got 4 pot calipers, so I dread to think what the earlier ones are like). Tin foil bodywork with a microscopic layer of paint (the scoobynet crowd will tell you this is "cos its a rally car mate. Helps keep the weight down 'innit") However, my local dealer, SGT, are very good. No issue with courtesy cars and good service (but then as I have not as yet had any mechanical problems for them to fix all they have done is standard service work).
The piston slap issue generally affects MY98 cars (I believe). Personally I wouldnt touch an import with a bargepole. As Fen says, designed for 100 RON, also expensive to insure. When looking for my current car, I only considered 99 onwards - gets the better brakes, slightly more power, better seats (the best thing about the car in fact) and a few minor cosmetic changes.
All in all the Impreza does the job for me as a daily runaround. Not hugely rapid, but certainly no slouch (my 944T is a lot faster once traction issues are out of the way). Fun to hussle down B-roads, communicative steering (yes, it really tells you about the understeer []) and being an estate, sorry wagon, gets less of the chav image, more of the mid-life crisis image.
I guess you either love 'em or you hate 'em.
] I, on the other hand, am onto my third Impreza. I had a standard MY99 followed by an RB5 WRSport prior to buying my 944. In these 2 I racked up about 40000 totally trouble-free miles. I genuinely had not one mechanical problem. Lucky perhaps. I have recently bought an MY99 estate (sorry, wagon - the scoobynet crowd are very touchy about people calling it an estate, rather looses the hardman weekend rally warrior image [8|]). This is my daily runner.
I agree completely with Fen's comments on the Imprezas failings - handling is average at best, disguised by massive grip. Not good if the grip runs out... The brakes are barely adequate (and the MY99 onwards finally got 4 pot calipers, so I dread to think what the earlier ones are like). Tin foil bodywork with a microscopic layer of paint (the scoobynet crowd will tell you this is "cos its a rally car mate. Helps keep the weight down 'innit") However, my local dealer, SGT, are very good. No issue with courtesy cars and good service (but then as I have not as yet had any mechanical problems for them to fix all they have done is standard service work).
The piston slap issue generally affects MY98 cars (I believe). Personally I wouldnt touch an import with a bargepole. As Fen says, designed for 100 RON, also expensive to insure. When looking for my current car, I only considered 99 onwards - gets the better brakes, slightly more power, better seats (the best thing about the car in fact) and a few minor cosmetic changes.
All in all the Impreza does the job for me as a daily runaround. Not hugely rapid, but certainly no slouch (my 944T is a lot faster once traction issues are out of the way). Fun to hussle down B-roads, communicative steering (yes, it really tells you about the understeer [
]) and being an estate, sorry wagon, gets less of the chav image, more of the mid-life crisis image.I guess you either love 'em or you hate 'em.
I had a ride in one last night - I'd had to much to drink to work the controls - and it certainly raised a smile.
Spectacularly lightweight (or is that cheap) with the doors shutting with the reassuring clunk of a Coke can being flattened.
Apparently this one had been modified and seem to derive all suspension travel from the flexing of the tyres. What ever had been done it had Tron like cornering abilities. It also seemed to accelerate at a spectacular rate of knots. Granted things always seem faster/more frightening when you are in the passenger seat but, if you spend your life driving around B roads and worse, then it could well be the car to have. It certainly made me laugh - in a nervous sort of way.
It seemed to have issues with brakes and locking rears with no ABS hardly inspires confidence - but then must be good if you are a rally driver.
I can understand why people buy them - who wouldn't be attracted to a go kart with four seats - but I fear I may be to old........and I couldn't drive a car with a pink badge.
Spectacularly lightweight (or is that cheap) with the doors shutting with the reassuring clunk of a Coke can being flattened.
Apparently this one had been modified and seem to derive all suspension travel from the flexing of the tyres. What ever had been done it had Tron like cornering abilities. It also seemed to accelerate at a spectacular rate of knots. Granted things always seem faster/more frightening when you are in the passenger seat but, if you spend your life driving around B roads and worse, then it could well be the car to have. It certainly made me laugh - in a nervous sort of way.
It seemed to have issues with brakes and locking rears with no ABS hardly inspires confidence - but then must be good if you are a rally driver.
I can understand why people buy them - who wouldn't be attracted to a go kart with four seats - but I fear I may be to old........and I couldn't drive a car with a pink badge.
With respect Steve (K) the Scoobie websites are hardly going to be objective. The other problem I found with places like Scoobynet is that loads of Impreza owners are coming from something like a FWD warm hatch and they think the Impreza is awesome because they have never driven a truly decent car. What did your mate have before? Have you lived with one? Why did you buy a 944 rather than a Scoobie?
5.5 to 60 is flattered by traction off the line. They are merely brisk in comparison to 2wd cars that can post a similar 0-60 time in the midrange where it really matters in the real world. Consider standard performance to be only slightly better (if at all) than a Clio 182 for example. They are low 200's bhp in a 1,300kg car (no idea where the weight comes from) and with 4wd transmission losses so they aren't going to be a ball of fire.
I know some people like them, and some of them are otherwise rational. I accept my experience may have been a minority one and I expected some people would have a different view, but that's what happened to me. I couldn't go independent as I had a warranty to keep up otherwise I would have done, but ultimately the dealer experience didn't put me off it; the car itself put me off with its normal behaviour, specifically it wasn't a nice place to spend time (aside the seats and being an RB5 it was a MY99 so had the better ones it would seem), it attracted all sorts of unwanted attention, it needed a full service every 6 weeks with my mileage and it was nowhere near as much fun to drive as the thirst for Optimax warranted. Ultimately it was a brisk, small, cheaply made, characterless Jap 4-door saloon with a hyped-up reputation it didn't deserve. They are a low-rent experience with penthouse running costs in my view. It did have the best cup holder I've ever seen, though.
Other Steve - I totally agree if you're going to get one get the estate (and have the 'nads to call a spade a spade []). I thought the steering was reasonably communicative but far too light just like the MX5 is to be honest, so that goes for 100% of the 3 Jap cars I have owned.
edited to remove the word "experience" that I used 3 times in one line [8|]
5.5 to 60 is flattered by traction off the line. They are merely brisk in comparison to 2wd cars that can post a similar 0-60 time in the midrange where it really matters in the real world. Consider standard performance to be only slightly better (if at all) than a Clio 182 for example. They are low 200's bhp in a 1,300kg car (no idea where the weight comes from) and with 4wd transmission losses so they aren't going to be a ball of fire.
I know some people like them, and some of them are otherwise rational. I accept my experience may have been a minority one and I expected some people would have a different view, but that's what happened to me. I couldn't go independent as I had a warranty to keep up otherwise I would have done, but ultimately the dealer experience didn't put me off it; the car itself put me off with its normal behaviour, specifically it wasn't a nice place to spend time (aside the seats and being an RB5 it was a MY99 so had the better ones it would seem), it attracted all sorts of unwanted attention, it needed a full service every 6 weeks with my mileage and it was nowhere near as much fun to drive as the thirst for Optimax warranted. Ultimately it was a brisk, small, cheaply made, characterless Jap 4-door saloon with a hyped-up reputation it didn't deserve. They are a low-rent experience with penthouse running costs in my view. It did have the best cup holder I've ever seen, though.
Other Steve - I totally agree if you're going to get one get the estate (and have the 'nads to call a spade a spade [
]). I thought the steering was reasonably communicative but far too light just like the MX5 is to be honest, so that goes for 100% of the 3 Jap cars I have owned.edited to remove the word "experience" that I used 3 times in one line [8|]
Peter Empson
PCGB Member
I had a passenger ride in one a few years back and my experience was pretty much the same as John's.
It did feel quite rapid (the driver was doing his best to scare me) but it seemed to corner like a hippopotamus on roller skates, with lots of ungainly roll and understeer until it finally turned in when the throttle was opened. The driving wasn't great but I've seen exactly the same behaviour on the track where they look rather boring (and expensive as they're almost always smoking a tyre or two). Evo's look the same to me, if even more spectacular with wilder computer controlled angles of oversteer on tap.
It did feel quite rapid (the driver was doing his best to scare me) but it seemed to corner like a hippopotamus on roller skates, with lots of ungainly roll and understeer until it finally turned in when the throttle was opened. The driving wasn't great but I've seen exactly the same behaviour on the track where they look rather boring (and expensive as they're almost always smoking a tyre or two). Evo's look the same to me, if even more spectacular with wilder computer controlled angles of oversteer on tap.
DivineE
New member
Hmmm why does this sound familiar?? Oh yes a friend of mine bought one 6months ago that was exactly as Mr. Sims describes I was so impressed I was even wondering if I'd bought the wrong car with my 944 (don't even start its not funny/relevent anyway...) the car felt so light, so responsive and so fast it all just felt too good to be true for the money and BINGO it was! It suffered a massive big end failure at 56,000miles (possibly because it was still on 100ron maps from Japan?). He has now had to replace almost every part in the car including the 6k new engine all in 6months of ownership and this was not by choice! The engine tuner summed the car up for me really, he said these cars were built to be a cheap fast option for playboys not to survive to become 2nd hand cars! He also commented when he saw the mashed up crank frosted effect pistons and cyclinders that this was quite normal for a Subaru of this age/millage!!!
Wow am I glad I bought a 944!! Stay German and buy an Audi thats my advice.
Ben
[/quote]
That car will blow up (again; it won't have a later closed deck block because the owner fancied one, it will have been fitted last time it lunched the standard one). I have already advised it's owner that his plan of selling it on in a few weeks is the right thing to do []
[/quote]
Wow am I glad I bought a 944!! Stay German and buy an Audi thats my advice.
Ben
[/quote]
That car will blow up (again; it won't have a later closed deck block because the owner fancied one, it will have been fitted last time it lunched the standard one). I have already advised it's owner that his plan of selling it on in a few weeks is the right thing to do [
][/quote]
oliverjamesthomas
New member
As a road car, if you get a nice one that hasn't been thrashed to within an inch of its life it'll probably be ok. If you get a bad one, as a friend of mine did, it'll cost you the earth in repairs. Quality wise they're average and if I'm honest, I'd be looking at something from the VAG empire. It's just my opinion, but I think a nice Audi would make a far better road car any day and I wouldn't be having to stop all the time to pick up the bits that fall off!
Oh, there's another thing as well. Why are they really so popular? The answer I was once given is they make a poor to average enthusiast driver look great. Take your average owner of a Subaru, put them in a Porsche and you'll see how bad a performance driver they really are [].
Regards
Oh, there's another thing as well. Why are they really so popular? The answer I was once given is they make a poor to average enthusiast driver look great. Take your average owner of a Subaru, put them in a Porsche and you'll see how bad a performance driver they really are [
].Regards
Obviously your Chav will say "Well it's a Rally Car on the road, in i' " which, having visited Prodrive, obviously isn't the case.
It would seem Prodrive receive a (supposedly) perfectly good new Scoobie and immediately take it all to bits, even to the point of stripping the paint off the body. They then get a gas axe to the naked body and cut a large percentage of that away before welding better bits in their place.
Once they have finished building a monocoque more suitable for the job in hand they condemn most of the other components to the dustbin and build proper replacements for them as well. £250,000 later they have a car which will go very quickly, but only for a weekend, after which it will need rebuilding again........so perhaps the Rally Car and the road car are quite similar after all. [8|]
It would seem Prodrive receive a (supposedly) perfectly good new Scoobie and immediately take it all to bits, even to the point of stripping the paint off the body. They then get a gas axe to the naked body and cut a large percentage of that away before welding better bits in their place.
Once they have finished building a monocoque more suitable for the job in hand they condemn most of the other components to the dustbin and build proper replacements for them as well. £250,000 later they have a car which will go very quickly, but only for a weekend, after which it will need rebuilding again........so perhaps the Rally Car and the road car are quite similar after all. [8|]
steve 944t
Member
So Alpine - are you going to get one?[]
Oliver's comment about the scoobie flattering a poor driver is certainly true. Just point it where you want to go and hit the gas. Impressive but a bit uninvolving. But the combination of a 944 for fun journeys and an Impreza for everything else works well for me. Fingers crossed I make it home tonight without blowing up []
]Oliver's comment about the scoobie flattering a poor driver is certainly true. Just point it where you want to go and hit the gas. Impressive but a bit uninvolving. But the combination of a 944 for fun journeys and an Impreza for everything else works well for me. Fingers crossed I make it home tonight without blowing up [
]
I've had 911s continuously since 1988, supplemented over the years by numerous more practical cars (mainly new VWs, changed every other year). In 2001 I bought a second hand 1998 Impreza as a practical family workhorse. Still got it. Only fault has been a failed fuel pump which left me stranded. I do feel that the dealer service can be a bit suspect though. Yes it's thirsty and a bit tinny but I couldn't really think of a new estate car which is more fun to replace it unless I was prepared to lose tens of thousands in depreciation and buy a sporty German thing.
Edit - (I call mine an estate, not a wagon)
Edit - (I call mine an estate, not a wagon)
Alex Postan
New member
£500,000 more like plus VAT[:'(]
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