SPA Blog 2009
- Thread starter chfs911
- Start date
chfs911
New member
Cracking day with Sean showing me the wet lines around Spa. I had no idea you could get so much grip in the wet.
I think he was enjoying driving the Cup as he would not let any GT3Rs past even with blue flags he said they had to work a bit harder along Blanchement! I asked if he was having fun at my expense and got a huge grin!
I think everyone would agree, the benefit to be had with professional instruction outweighs the bigger and newer is better brigade.
Thanks Sean.
I think he was enjoying driving the Cup as he would not let any GT3Rs past even with blue flags he said they had to work a bit harder along Blanchement! I asked if he was having fun at my expense and got a huge grin!
I think everyone would agree, the benefit to be had with professional instruction outweighs the bigger and newer is better brigade.
Thanks Sean.
Sean Edwards
New member
Great weekend, I have never seen so many Porsche's in one place! And I arrived in Monaco at 3am after listing to BMW sat nav (never again!)... Took me from Belgium to Germany to France to Switzerland, through an Alpine pass into Italy, back to France and finally Monaco...! On top of that got stopped at the Swiss boarder for 1 hour as they thought my car was stolen. Had a 15 min nap 150 miles from Monaco too. 800 mile trip and did the first 300 in 2 hours 30 and the next 500 took bloody 6 hours 30!!
Thanks for all the comment guys, it was a pleasure to instruct you all and drive your fantastic cars! Great fun in Des's old 911, that is a drift machine. The 964 RS's were a pleasure as always, but the 964 RSR really took me by suprise, it handled so well at high speed, I was really impressed. Felt like the thing was on slicks and glued to the road, amazing bit of kit.
Look forward to next time!
"Yawns"
You have obvioulsy never been on a PCF day at Spa in the Race group.
Thanks for all the comment guys, it was a pleasure to instruct you all and drive your fantastic cars! Great fun in Des's old 911, that is a drift machine. The 964 RS's were a pleasure as always, but the 964 RSR really took me by suprise, it handled so well at high speed, I was really impressed. Felt like the thing was on slicks and glued to the road, amazing bit of kit.
Look forward to next time!
"Yawns"
You have obvioulsy never been on a PCF day at Spa in the Race group.
timarnold
New member
Sean. behave! You should realise that being a licensed instructor carries responsibilities and you should set good examples. If that's true that you wouldn't let quicker cars past even when you were blue flagged, you're not only letting yourself down you're letting the rest of your colleagues down; not to mention your dad who is a well respected and successful driver (and helped me with free advice on sponsorship many years ago - great guy... no pun intended [
]). We should set good examples not flaunt track day rules. We know you can drive and we know you win races, but that's not what makes a good instructor - ignoring blue flags certainly doesn't! There are a few 'instructors' out there that quite frankly are irresponsible and shouldn't have licences... don't become one of them! []I've worked on many track days including at Spa, not sure if one of them was PCF, but it's irrelevant. You're a Silverstone A same as me... do you think Chris would be impressed with one of his instructors behaving like a yob on track days? I know he wouldn't, he would see it as reflecting badly on them (Silverstone)!
chfs911
New member
Sean,
You should try a map! Like the new cars versus the old cars, progress is not always a step forward.
I have to agree with you on the RSR. It is the perfect car for Spa. So much grip. Next year try it on 305 slicks.
Get PCF days it in your diary now! Bookings will be up I am sure.
Thanks again,
Charles
You should try a map! Like the new cars versus the old cars, progress is not always a step forward.
I have to agree with you on the RSR. It is the perfect car for Spa. So much grip. Next year try it on 305 slicks.
Get PCF days it in your diary now! Bookings will be up I am sure.
Thanks again,
Charles
chfs911
New member
Just to clarify since I was there, the marshalls probably thought I was driving and were letting me know there were so called faster cars approaching.
As it turns out out in the very wet conditions it was not the size of your engine it was how you used it!
The GT3R drivers bottled it and did not overtake although there is loads of room along Blanchement.
It is not a race and there is no need to move off the racing line in the Racing section. You are not permitted to block faster cars but they do have to be going faster to pass. They weren't in this case. It is called Fun days for a reason and Sean and I were having fun in the wet with the kettle drivers! ;O)
Sean was completely professional in all his instruction.
Charles
As it turns out out in the very wet conditions it was not the size of your engine it was how you used it!
The GT3R drivers bottled it and did not overtake although there is loads of room along Blanchement.
It is not a race and there is no need to move off the racing line in the Racing section. You are not permitted to block faster cars but they do have to be going faster to pass. They weren't in this case. It is called Fun days for a reason and Sean and I were having fun in the wet with the kettle drivers! ;O)
Sean was completely professional in all his instruction.
Charles
Sean Edwards
New member
Melv, we need a Smiley for "ZZZZZZZZZZZZ", I couldn't find one!
Charles, no need to reply to him, don't waste your time! I have no idea who he is, but he seems to be pissing people off on all the forums, so just ignore him We all know the rules for that specific day!
Tim I suggest you stop lecturing people on things you don't know and go do something more productive.
Yep, that's the one! Flags are there to make you aware of a car close behind, so you don't turn in and crash!
There were lots indeed, but no car to car contact, just people pushing hard in the wet and going off, mostly crazy Belgians
Charles, no need to reply to him, don't waste your time! I have no idea who he is, but he seems to be pissing people off on all the forums, so just ignore him
We all know the rules for that specific day!Tim I suggest you stop lecturing people on things you don't know and go do something more productive.
Yep, that's the one! Flags are there to make you aware of a car close behind, so you don't turn in and crash!
There were lots indeed, but no car to car contact, just people pushing hard in the wet and going off, mostly crazy Belgians
Sean, your instruction was just as usual hands on, entertaining and certainly the most professional I have ever received. You make the session fun but also very serious, wish I could remember your wise words, but I always seem to be a bit quicker and smoother after.
Certainly you taught me a very fast learning curve on the 3.2, your artistry round La Source and Bus Stop would rank on "Dancing on Ice" ....... Total control and so progressive in a tail happy chappy ....
I would doubt if the above "instructor" had driven a PCF Day, he would certainly remember it if he had, you would not forget. NO OTHER track days come close for excitement, with totally different rules ...... Blue Flags are always been waved such is the intensity of the sessions, you are either been flagged or the guy in front of you for you to pass .... BECUASE WE PASS ON THREE SIDES, moving over can upset another driver ........ a faster car will overtake, safer to keep your track position in most cases, normally into corners three abreast.[
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timarnold
New member
Sean, you don't have a very good memory! We have met, we spoke on the phone only recently, you have registered your instructor profile on my website for ARDS and we are both involved with CG-Lock.
Irrespective of the day, blue flags are not to be ignored. If only you knew, many of your senior instructors are not impressed with your behaviour. Howard Hunt says hello btw! [
]
timarnold
New member
"Instructor"? Des, I've been instructing since before Sean was born and held an ARDS License since they were first introduced (when he was still in nappies). It doesn't matter what the day is a blue flag means get out of the way, and to ignore it is not the sign of a good instructor!
So if he pays £50 quid you would be agreeing with him? Personally I think reasonable points are being made by someone with more experience of the subject than most of the commentators on this thread. If there were that many accidents in the dry then maybe the instructors have a responsibility to behave - deliberately holding up faster cars "he would not let any GT3Rs past even with blue flags he said they had to work a bit harder along Blanchement!" does not sound like a good example to me
Sean also has "Guest of the Club" status, so should comments like this be allowed on "our" Forum.......
"I have no idea who he is, but he seems to be ****ing people off on all the forums, so just ignore him
We all know the rules for that specific day! Tim I suggest you stop lecturing people on things you don't know and go do something more productive"
Pete
so let me get this straight Tim , your in a say 3.2 carrera and your giving some demonstration laps in a customers car. The car behind, a GT3 Cup has been behind for a while as he's not quick enough to pass you . You pull away on the corners and he catches you up a bit on the straight but there is no way he's actually quicker than you anywhere. In fact you've given him plenty of room stayed on the racing line but he's just not capable of overtaking you as you are a quicker driver. But the marshall waves a blue flag (coz he's seen an old 3.2 carrera with a gt3 cup behind and presumes the cup car must be quicker). And you give way ?
timarnold
New member
Lawrence, Yes! This is what I (and most of my experienced colleagues) practice all the time: If a car that wasn't there a couple of corners ago is suddenly behind me, so has therefore caught me up, it is obvious that car is lapping faster than I am and I will move over and let him pass at the earliest safe opportunity. If it is not possible to move immediately I will let the driver behind know that I am aware he/she is there by holding up my hand to acknowledge that I have seen him/her.
In the scenario you have described, I might just assess the situation first before acting. For example, the GT3 Cup may have just left the pits as I have passed by and by virtue of it being a faster car it may have caught me on the straight. In that case, if after a couple of corners I am able to pull away and it's evident that I can lap faster, then I will stay in front of him so long as he is dropping back, no matter how slowly that is. If the GT3 Cup continues to sit on my bumper I will let him go. Sometimes another car is quick enough to maintain a consistent gap of say 5 - 10 car lengths and will therefore be able to sit comfortably behind me but is not actually lapping any quicker. In that instance I will generally hold my position unless I feel that the driver may be drawn into a mistake by attempting to keep up, in which case I will let him pass. If I am being shown blue flags and I cannot pull away significantly I will move and let him pass. If he is then unable to pull away I will either wait to see if he is blue flagged and allows me to re-pass, or, I will do a slow lap to allow a gap to build up, then I ill go back up to speed. Sometimes a marshal believes a blue flag is appropriate as you described, but that are not aware of the full picture; in that instance it is OK to ignore the blue flag, but only for a corner or two... if the car is still there and you're still seeing blue flags then you should move... if however you are blue flagged but know you can, and do pull away, it is OK to ignore the flag then as well.
I had a similar scenario on the Porsche RS day when I was in Chris Whittle's Club Sport and I had a GT3RS behind me. He was holding a gap (but later told me he was struggling to keep up) but I could tell that if I'd let him pass I would have been all over him in the next corner. I also knew that I was going into the pits at the end of the next lap and would be letting him past anyway, so on that occasion I stayed in front until I went in - but I did continue to monitor the situation and if he had appeared to be lapping quicker I would have moved... in fact thinking that he might be able to pull away on the straights I did give him room approaching Lodge and Old Hall and he wasn't going fast enough to overtake.
What I would never do on a track day is make a another driver have to work harder to get past... that would be effectively pushing him towards an accident! Supposing someone being pushed in such a way was seriously hurt or killed in an ensuing accident... where would that experienced, professional licensed instructor be then and how would it reflect on the rest of us (licensed instructors) in the eye of the public, insurance companies, and perhaps the courts?
So to summarise, yes, if I can't pull away I let him pass, if I can pull away I don't let him pass.
Potentially forcing someone of lesser experience and/or ability into a mistake is both dangerous and irresponsible.
Ask any of the guys on here who have had rides with me and I guarantee they will say I always let faster cars through, and also, if I am held up by someone who won't move I am most likely to back off until I've found a piece of clear track.
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