Following Richard's four speaker set (grill blanks, VW connnectors and repair wires, 4 speakers) cost me just under £150.
Speaker upgrades in my 996 coupe
- Thread starter gizmo750
- Start date
Following Richard's four speaker set (grill blanks, VW connnectors and repair wires, 4 speakers) cost me just under £150.
Black80XSA
New member
Anything will sound better than the stock Nokia speakers - a £30 set of Alpines from Halfords makes a big difference. You don;t need to spend silly money IMO; since
the speaker locations are far from ideal for correct sound staging
high end speakers will just show up the limitations of the installation (needs significant sound deadening for decent installs), amplifier (the next weekest link in the factory set-up) and wiring.
the difference from the Nokias to a basic car audio are so significant that the law of diminishing returns quickly comes into force.
I have a set of DLS components speakers that cost me about £700 10 years ago - they are sat in a cupboard now having been in several previous cars of mine. I didn;t bother with them in my first Boxster since the amount of road noise and work required to get them installed properly wasn't worth the effort. My current Boxster has Bose, and whilst its no replacement for decent car hifi install i just live with it and its short comings. The DLS are awesome sounding speakers when installed and driven properly, but they aren't twenty times better than the Aplines in Halfords !
the speaker locations are far from ideal for correct sound staging
high end speakers will just show up the limitations of the installation (needs significant sound deadening for decent installs), amplifier (the next weekest link in the factory set-up) and wiring.
the difference from the Nokias to a basic car audio are so significant that the law of diminishing returns quickly comes into force.
I have a set of DLS components speakers that cost me about £700 10 years ago - they are sat in a cupboard now having been in several previous cars of mine. I didn;t bother with them in my first Boxster since the amount of road noise and work required to get them installed properly wasn't worth the effort. My current Boxster has Bose, and whilst its no replacement for decent car hifi install i just live with it and its short comings. The DLS are awesome sounding speakers when installed and driven properly, but they aren't twenty times better than the Aplines in Halfords !
piperboxster
New member
Having spoken to JMG this morning, they said they can do the setup much cheaper by using cheaper off the shelf speakers, but do not garauntee satisfaction with cheap speakers, saying that most of their 996 customers are sensible enough not to want to spend £300 per speaker and go over the top, but also are smart enough to not want cheap and nasty speakers.
They said that if there is interest, they can do a cheaper kit with lower specification speakers at a reduced price.
They said that if there is interest, they can do a cheaper kit with lower specification speakers at a reduced price.
piperboxster
New member
Almost forgot, I also asked them about glue and speakers, they said that Porsche didnt use glue on the standard speakers and they do not on their setup.
Lidl may get some cheap speakers in from time to time. [
]
The world is full of choices, from Focal speakers at one end (and even more expensive items) through to something made in China for Lidle or Aldi at the other end. Somewhere between there will be several levels where several people will find different options at different levels of quality and price.
The ones from JMG are not the cheap and nasty Alpines available from Halfords which are aimed at Citroen Saxo owners.
Quality is remembered long after the price is forgotten.
]The world is full of choices, from Focal speakers at one end (and even more expensive items) through to something made in China for Lidle or Aldi at the other end. Somewhere between there will be several levels where several people will find different options at different levels of quality and price.
The ones from JMG are not the cheap and nasty Alpines available from Halfords which are aimed at Citroen Saxo owners.
Quality is remembered long after the price is forgotten.
It looks like Dan is right. I've just had a look at the originals on mine (without the speaker upgrade pack - hence no tweeter) and they are screwed on to the grilles not glued on.
And I've just been out in my garage and dug out the original speakers from the Turbo, and the old ones from the C2. The Turbo ones were screwed on, but separated easily as Rod says. The ones from the C2 were also screwed, but also appeared to be glued. They separated with a bit of persuasion, but there was a horrible cracking sound when they did.
Anyone need a set of savannah dash and rear speakers, or a pair of black dash ones? Or how about a phone bracket covered in savannah leather? A CD tray? Silver wheel centres? I must get some of my junk on eBay. [] []
Anyone need a set of savannah dash and rear speakers, or a pair of black dash ones? Or how about a phone bracket covered in savannah leather? A CD tray? Silver wheel centres? I must get some of my junk on eBay. [
] []
Black80XSA
New member
Everyone to their own, but lots of owners are perfectly happy with the 50p Nokia units Spending £30 on some 'nasty' Alpine Saxo Maxy Power speakers WILL bring a significant change; to some ears perhaps not as much as some £300 ones admittedly, but a lot of people can't tell the difference beyond a certain upgrade point.
.
Had another chat with Jon Mitchell at JMG this morning about what he said about the cheaper Alpines.
The adapter brackets which make the custom 4.5 inch Alpines fit the 996/Boxster pods have been designed so they will also accept the 4" Alpine SXE 1025S speaker. Which has the following specifications.
I also wasted some time at work investigating different speaker options for the 996 and Boxster getting some specifications and also getting some retail prices.
Alpine 1025S 4.0" Speakers (£99.99 per pair with full fitting kit)
Fitting requirements - JMG adapter kit
25 Watts RMS
180 Watts peak power
4 ohms
frequency responce 100hz to 20khz
sensitivity 90db
JMG/Alpine 4.5" Speakers (£150 per pair with full fitting kit)
Fitting requirements - JMG adapter kit
40 Watts RMS
180 Watts Peak Power
4 Ohms
62hz 32khz Frequency responce
Sensitivity 92db
Compared to the following speakers I have found people using on the internet with various fitting methods found..
MB Quart RSC210 4" ($299)
Fitting requirements - seems to be velcro or glue
30 Watts RMS
70 Watts Peak Power
4 Ohms
62hz-32khz Frequency responce
85db Sensitivity
MB Quart DKG110 4" ($179)
Fitting requirements - seems to be velcro or glue
30 Watts RMS
70 Watts Peak Power
4 Ohms
65hz-30khz Frequency responce
82db Sensitivity
Pioneer TS-E1076 4" £49.99
Fitting requirements - seems to be bending tabs and/or glue
25 Watts RMS
110 Watts Peak Power
4 Ohms
45hz-30khz Frequency responce
90db Sensitivity
Diamon Audio M3411 4.0" Speakers (£175)
Fitting requirements - Bending tabs with glue and sealant
35 Watts RMS
70 Watts Peak Power
4 Ohms
Frequency responce ??
Sensitivity ??
Alpine 1025S 4.0" Speakers (£39.99 per pair retail at Halfords)
Fitting requirements - Various methods could be used, probably involving self tapping screws, bent tabs and glue
25 Watts RMS
180 Watts peak power
4 ohms
frequency responce 100hz to 20khz
sensitivity 90db
So it looks like there are a couple of bargain basement prices out there for getting speakers, and some online vendors may even be able to do speakers at bargain prices requiring oddball methods of installation to fit them (and either soldering different connectors to your loom, or buying loom adapters)
But it also looks as if the £150 per pair JMG/Alpines are a bit of a bargain, as are the budget JMG/Alpine 1025S speaker kits. especially the JMG/Alpine custom ones when you compare the specifications.
Interestingly I learned today about "Sensitivity" which apparently (according to an internet search) is the output in db from the speaker measured at 1m when a 2.5 volt signal is applied, which is a better judge of sound output compared to RMS or Peak figures.
It also looks like the 996 owner on here who used the Pioneer speakers with a bit of DIY managed to choose a reasonable speaker which is priced at a reasonable price.
For me, I would still go for the JMG/Alpine custom speakers at £150 a pair with the fitting kit, which includes everything you need, can be installed very quickly with only a Phillips screwdriver! I think there would be nothing worse than buying a cheaper setup, and then always wondering if it would have sounded better if I had spent a little more.
Better do some work now!
The adapter brackets which make the custom 4.5 inch Alpines fit the 996/Boxster pods have been designed so they will also accept the 4" Alpine SXE 1025S speaker. Which has the following specifications.
I also wasted some time at work investigating different speaker options for the 996 and Boxster getting some specifications and also getting some retail prices.
Alpine 1025S 4.0" Speakers (£99.99 per pair with full fitting kit)
Fitting requirements - JMG adapter kit
25 Watts RMS
180 Watts peak power
4 ohms
frequency responce 100hz to 20khz
sensitivity 90db
JMG/Alpine 4.5" Speakers (£150 per pair with full fitting kit)
Fitting requirements - JMG adapter kit
40 Watts RMS
180 Watts Peak Power
4 Ohms
62hz 32khz Frequency responce
Sensitivity 92db
Compared to the following speakers I have found people using on the internet with various fitting methods found..
MB Quart RSC210 4" ($299)
Fitting requirements - seems to be velcro or glue
30 Watts RMS
70 Watts Peak Power
4 Ohms
62hz-32khz Frequency responce
85db Sensitivity
MB Quart DKG110 4" ($179)
Fitting requirements - seems to be velcro or glue
30 Watts RMS
70 Watts Peak Power
4 Ohms
65hz-30khz Frequency responce
82db Sensitivity
Pioneer TS-E1076 4" £49.99
Fitting requirements - seems to be bending tabs and/or glue
25 Watts RMS
110 Watts Peak Power
4 Ohms
45hz-30khz Frequency responce
90db Sensitivity
Diamon Audio M3411 4.0" Speakers (£175)
Fitting requirements - Bending tabs with glue and sealant
35 Watts RMS
70 Watts Peak Power
4 Ohms
Frequency responce ??
Sensitivity ??
Alpine 1025S 4.0" Speakers (£39.99 per pair retail at Halfords)
Fitting requirements - Various methods could be used, probably involving self tapping screws, bent tabs and glue
25 Watts RMS
180 Watts peak power
4 ohms
frequency responce 100hz to 20khz
sensitivity 90db
So it looks like there are a couple of bargain basement prices out there for getting speakers, and some online vendors may even be able to do speakers at bargain prices requiring oddball methods of installation to fit them (and either soldering different connectors to your loom, or buying loom adapters)
But it also looks as if the £150 per pair JMG/Alpines are a bit of a bargain, as are the budget JMG/Alpine 1025S speaker kits. especially the JMG/Alpine custom ones when you compare the specifications.
Interestingly I learned today about "Sensitivity" which apparently (according to an internet search) is the output in db from the speaker measured at 1m when a 2.5 volt signal is applied, which is a better judge of sound output compared to RMS or Peak figures.
It also looks like the 996 owner on here who used the Pioneer speakers with a bit of DIY managed to choose a reasonable speaker which is priced at a reasonable price.
For me, I would still go for the JMG/Alpine custom speakers at £150 a pair with the fitting kit, which includes everything you need, can be installed very quickly with only a Phillips screwdriver! I think there would be nothing worse than buying a cheaper setup, and then always wondering if it would have sounded better if I had spent a little more.
Better do some work now!
Great post!
It is very difficult to compare speakers from those stats, the only way you are really going to know which speaker is better than another is if they are tested in magazines or someone has done a test in their car.
Watts RMS (Root Mean Square) this is the real power output of a speaker, one should never use the peak power reading as it's misleading. This is therefore the best figure for discerning the loudness of the speaker before it is 'overdriven' and you start doing damage to it.
Frequency response: The human ear can hear down to 20hz and up to 20khz (as a general rule). I would take these quoted figures with a massive pinch of salt. There is absolutely no chance the Pioneers, or any speaker this size can go down to less than around 100hz at an audible sound pressure level (ie you wont be able to hear any bass from these speakers below 100hz unless you crank the volume right up and then it would be 'hidden' by the rest of the music becoming so loud). Hifi speaker manufacturers quote frequency responses to -6db (the point at which those frequencies are determined to be inaudible because they are not loud enough with respect to the other frequencies)
Sensitivity:This is a measure of how well the speaker converts the output from the amplifier to output in db. It is not a measure of volumes achievable. It is useful in matching speakers to amplifiers. If for example your speakers have a relatively low sensitivity of 87db you will need a much more powerful amplifier to reach those kind of output levels than if the speaker had a sensitivity of 90db (it's on a log scale). ie you'd have to turn up the volume to 10 on an amp to get the same output level on a speaker with 87db, as turning the volume up to 5 on a speaker with 89db (for example). If your amp has a 25W output and your speakers are rated at 25RMS but with 87db sensitivity, your speakers will never reach 25Watts as the amp is not powerful enough. The MB Quart figure of 82db is horrific, and if true, would rule out their use unless you had a massively powerful amp)
Ohms: This represents the current load on the amp by the speaker. The lower the figure the 'worse' the load. This load is variable, some speakers have huge current draws at high frequencies, some at low, some have very benign current draws across the frequency range. You'd need to see a graph to ascertain the impedence vs frequency. The more benign (read flat) the curve is, the easier it is for the amp. Again, the figures quoted by manufacturers are rarely correct, and do not paint the whole picture.
With all these figures, the only hard and fast rules are the wider the frequency response the better (but those figures cannot be trusted at all), the higher the Watts RMS the better, the higher the sensitivity the better, the lower the Ohms figure the better.
But that still doesn't tell you how good the speaker sounds. And it doesnt tell you anything about the quality of the installation which will also have a big impact on sound quality. Some of the best speakers in the world have the worst figures. So you can only decide with listening tests.
It is very difficult to compare speakers from those stats, the only way you are really going to know which speaker is better than another is if they are tested in magazines or someone has done a test in their car.
Watts RMS (Root Mean Square) this is the real power output of a speaker, one should never use the peak power reading as it's misleading. This is therefore the best figure for discerning the loudness of the speaker before it is 'overdriven' and you start doing damage to it.
Frequency response: The human ear can hear down to 20hz and up to 20khz (as a general rule). I would take these quoted figures with a massive pinch of salt. There is absolutely no chance the Pioneers, or any speaker this size can go down to less than around 100hz at an audible sound pressure level (ie you wont be able to hear any bass from these speakers below 100hz unless you crank the volume right up and then it would be 'hidden' by the rest of the music becoming so loud). Hifi speaker manufacturers quote frequency responses to -6db (the point at which those frequencies are determined to be inaudible because they are not loud enough with respect to the other frequencies)
Sensitivity:This is a measure of how well the speaker converts the output from the amplifier to output in db. It is not a measure of volumes achievable. It is useful in matching speakers to amplifiers. If for example your speakers have a relatively low sensitivity of 87db you will need a much more powerful amplifier to reach those kind of output levels than if the speaker had a sensitivity of 90db (it's on a log scale). ie you'd have to turn up the volume to 10 on an amp to get the same output level on a speaker with 87db, as turning the volume up to 5 on a speaker with 89db (for example). If your amp has a 25W output and your speakers are rated at 25RMS but with 87db sensitivity, your speakers will never reach 25Watts as the amp is not powerful enough. The MB Quart figure of 82db is horrific, and if true, would rule out their use unless you had a massively powerful amp)
Ohms: This represents the current load on the amp by the speaker. The lower the figure the 'worse' the load. This load is variable, some speakers have huge current draws at high frequencies, some at low, some have very benign current draws across the frequency range. You'd need to see a graph to ascertain the impedence vs frequency. The more benign (read flat) the curve is, the easier it is for the amp. Again, the figures quoted by manufacturers are rarely correct, and do not paint the whole picture.
With all these figures, the only hard and fast rules are the wider the frequency response the better (but those figures cannot be trusted at all), the higher the Watts RMS the better, the higher the sensitivity the better, the lower the Ohms figure the better.
But that still doesn't tell you how good the speaker sounds. And it doesnt tell you anything about the quality of the installation which will also have a big impact on sound quality. Some of the best speakers in the world have the worst figures. So you can only decide with listening tests.
Lol...I know it's a minefield.
I guess the only solution is decide how much you want to spend, and how much you want to faff around installing and choose from the above (unless someone can find some 4-4.5inch car speakers that have been group tested).
Richard Hamilton also has a very nice bass unit mounted in a custom hidden shelf behind the rear seats. So that may also be something to consider. Or you may want to consider just sticking tweeters into your original grilles (a la Sound Upgrade pack), or adding the speakers in the doors.
I just wanted a discreet speaker upgrade and was happy to faff around installing myself. I have written up the whole procedure (basically the instructions given to me by Richard) if anyone wants me to post them up I will.
I guess the only solution is decide how much you want to spend, and how much you want to faff around installing and choose from the above (unless someone can find some 4-4.5inch car speakers that have been group tested).
Richard Hamilton also has a very nice bass unit mounted in a custom hidden shelf behind the rear seats. So that may also be something to consider. Or you may want to consider just sticking tweeters into your original grilles (a la Sound Upgrade pack), or adding the speakers in the doors.
I just wanted a discreet speaker upgrade and was happy to faff around installing myself. I have written up the whole procedure (basically the instructions given to me by Richard) if anyone wants me to post them up I will.
If you really want to push the boat out, how about a couple of pairs of these: http://www.rmdaudio.co.uk/item--Morel-Integra-Ovation-4-Porsche-996-Boxster-UPGRADE-1-0--001-002-0046-006.html. Add some decent door speakers, and you would be knocking on £1000-1200. And what are you driving these little beautieswith, and in what environment? A mediocre head unit and amplifier in a small tin box.
And for my ears at least, it would be totally wasted. I'm with David (Black80XSA) on this one.
Just my 2p's worth.
And for my ears at least, it would be totally wasted. I'm with David (Black80XSA) on this one.
Just my 2p's worth.
piperboxster
New member
I have a friend here at work who just caught me reading this thread and has a 996 C2 without the hifi upgrade pack, no door speakers.
What is involved in adding door speakers?
I know the Boxsters have different door cards and big expansion chambers in the doors for the speakers to mount into.
Has anyone here added door speakers to a car without them?
What is involved in adding door speakers?
I know the Boxsters have different door cards and big expansion chambers in the doors for the speakers to mount into.
Has anyone here added door speakers to a car without them?
Just as a contrast - and certainly not a recommendation since I've never seen or heard them - but Maplin offer a pair of 4" dual concentric car speakers for a mere £20 with grilles. They're probably something around 20w RMS.
I would think that up to a point, you get what you pay for with speakers, but adding tweaters of any kind to the basic package will make a lot of difference to the clarity.
I would think that up to a point, you get what you pay for with speakers, but adding tweaters of any kind to the basic package will make a lot of difference to the clarity.
Diesel130
New member
Hi Rodney ... Good posting - being an old electronics engineer I hate those misleading manufacturer's figures (especially 'music power' figure that some quote). Only one comment though ... you say "you'd have to turn up the volume to 10 on an amp to get the same output level on a speaker with 87db, as turning the volume up to 5 on a speaker with 89db (for example). " That is not strictly true because amplifiers volume controls are themseleves logarithmic. If they weren't you'd get to about 1.5 on the scale of 10 and perceive it was at full volume. Hence an amp setting of 5 is much less than half power (=3dB difference).
Still, the main thing - as other's have pointed out - is that the acoustical conditions (position of speakers, stuff in the way like seats) is not ideal in a car full stop, if your're driving there's background noise, most people will be playing back (relatively) low quality MP3 or WMA compressed audio, rather than CD quality.
The main thing I'd like to change in mine is not distorting a higher volumes - which is where the ability to handle power (the RMS figure) and the sensitivity figures come in.
Still, the main thing - as other's have pointed out - is that the acoustical conditions (position of speakers, stuff in the way like seats) is not ideal in a car full stop, if your're driving there's background noise, most people will be playing back (relatively) low quality MP3 or WMA compressed audio, rather than CD quality.
The main thing I'd like to change in mine is not distorting a higher volumes - which is where the ability to handle power (the RMS figure) and the sensitivity figures come in.
piperboxster
New member
Does anyone who has contributed to this thread mind if I use some of this material on my Boxster web site in a new audio page?
Hi Martin, Im sure you're right. I just made up those figures as an example of how sensitivity may manifest itself. Most volume controls (pots) in cheap head units such as mine are total rubbish anyway, and will be no where near perfectly log.
Absolutely, and that in turn can bring in another problem. When you upgrade your speakers and not the amplifier, you may sort out the speaker clipping (distorting due to it hitting it's end stops) at high levels, but you may then get the issue of the amp clipping at high levels (if the speaker/music demands a heavy current draw the amp may not be able to recreate the dynamic range in the music). So some people go to the lengths of getting Monoblock power amps (2 mono amps to handle each channel) under the seats. But just as you mentioned, you will then more clearly notice how bad the CD player is or how bad the MP3 files are and you end up upgrading that part.
It's endless!
This is the procedure I followed for installing new speakers in my car. All info/pictures given to me by Richard Hamilton (thank you very much![])
What you need to buy
The speaker grilles all need to be replaced for blanks (4 x Speaker blanks part no 996.645.049.02.01C) They are all identical so you will need 4 for front and rears. This is because the existing grille mouldings for the bass/mid units are raised and angled forwards, making it difficult to attach new ones. This also gives you the option of replacing the originals at any time. These cost £19.30 each
Then you will need to buy some VW connectors and repair wires to connect them to the original plugs in the loom, so that you can swap them back if need be.The wires have a terminal on each end, so you need one wire per speaker, and cut them in half. (4x VW Speaker Connector: 1HO-906-712, 4 x VW Repair Wire: 000-979-129). These cost around £12 all in from your local VW supplier.
You will then need to buy the speakers themselves. I bought 2 Pairs of Pioneer e-motion TS-E1076 co-axials as Richard recommended them to me, they fit well and have a seperate tweeter and mid/bass unit fitted together. I could have used a seperate mid/bass unit and tweeter, but I didn't have time to find out which units would fit and would work well with the mid/bass units. They're nice speakers with a Kevlar weave. I bough them off Ebay for £59.98 for the 2 pairs.
Fitting Them
I marked a 10cm circle on the rear of the speaker grille blanks with a compass and cut them out with a flat blade fitted onto my soldering iron. With some careful positioning as per the pictures, I got 3 self tappers to hold them on the grilles, and bent down the other tag. I also 'burned off' the two protruding bits of plastic found between the tweeter- mid/bass blank areas.
I attached the connectors to the wires and the wires to the speaker tags (making sure I didn't invert polarity).i then soldered them aswell. I then undid the existing grilles in the car using an offset Torx key (can't remember what size), and pulled them out, and fitted the new ones, new VW connector to existing VW connector.
Job done. Total time - around 2 hours.
I noticed an instant massive improvement. Much more defined/deeper bass (ie not the one note thumping from the old units), much clearer mids, especially at higher volumes, and much better treble extension.Voices sound so much more open, and there is much less congestion in complex music. There is still not much bass, But I wasn't about to install bass units in my car.
])What you need to buy
The speaker grilles all need to be replaced for blanks (4 x Speaker blanks part no 996.645.049.02.01C) They are all identical so you will need 4 for front and rears. This is because the existing grille mouldings for the bass/mid units are raised and angled forwards, making it difficult to attach new ones. This also gives you the option of replacing the originals at any time. These cost £19.30 each
Then you will need to buy some VW connectors and repair wires to connect them to the original plugs in the loom, so that you can swap them back if need be.The wires have a terminal on each end, so you need one wire per speaker, and cut them in half. (4x VW Speaker Connector: 1HO-906-712, 4 x VW Repair Wire: 000-979-129). These cost around £12 all in from your local VW supplier.
You will then need to buy the speakers themselves. I bought 2 Pairs of Pioneer e-motion TS-E1076 co-axials as Richard recommended them to me, they fit well and have a seperate tweeter and mid/bass unit fitted together. I could have used a seperate mid/bass unit and tweeter, but I didn't have time to find out which units would fit and would work well with the mid/bass units. They're nice speakers with a Kevlar weave. I bough them off Ebay for £59.98 for the 2 pairs.
Fitting Them
I marked a 10cm circle on the rear of the speaker grille blanks with a compass and cut them out with a flat blade fitted onto my soldering iron. With some careful positioning as per the pictures, I got 3 self tappers to hold them on the grilles, and bent down the other tag. I also 'burned off' the two protruding bits of plastic found between the tweeter- mid/bass blank areas.
I attached the connectors to the wires and the wires to the speaker tags (making sure I didn't invert polarity).i then soldered them aswell. I then undid the existing grilles in the car using an offset Torx key (can't remember what size), and pulled them out, and fitted the new ones, new VW connector to existing VW connector.
Job done. Total time - around 2 hours.
I noticed an instant massive improvement. Much more defined/deeper bass (ie not the one note thumping from the old units), much clearer mids, especially at higher volumes, and much better treble extension.Voices sound so much more open, and there is much less congestion in complex music. There is still not much bass, But I wasn't about to install bass units in my car.
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