Supercharger project

[Peter Empson]

Hi all, I thought I'd post some details and pics of the supercharger kit I purchased recently. It is a used Speed Force Racing design which came off a 968 and whilst not complete did include almost all of the important parts. SFR are supplying me with the rest of the bits bar the oil cooler which I intend to source myself from Mocal (which will be fitted behind the 924T badge panel). I've uploaded a couple of very basic pages for anyone that wants to have a look:http://website.lineone.net/~empson/cars/SC/page2.htmlPlease excuse the number of repetitious images, they're for my benefit in case I need to reference anything whilst away from home. My biggest initial concern was whether the intercooler would fit, so today I've experimented and thankfully it looks like it will. Here's a couple of pics of it mocked up:http://website.lineone.net/~empson/cars/SC/page3.htmlThe only problem with the intercooler is that the pipes really need to be 90 degrees further around to line up with the holes behind the badge panel, but I don't think this is an insurmountable problem. The solution looks to be to cut the existing pipe before the bend and use silicone hoses instead (I just hope there will be enough pipe left for the hose clips to bite into). I will be fitting a different bumper with a much larger opening to ensure good air flow (the closest I can get to a GTR front end without having to go with wider wings). As this will be fibreglass and offer no real impact protection I may look at fitting an aluminium bumper bar of some description behind it, I might try one from an S2/Turbo but doubt it'll fit. The next stage will be to get the gauges I need installed (Oil Temp, EGT, wideband A/F, Boost), then finally decide upon what engine management system to use. Best regards,Peter

 

[John Sims]

Looks all very exciting. What an enthusiastic bunny you are.

I would recommend talking to Phil at PSH (Performance Silicone Hoses not Peter Seymore-Howell []) He makes up hoses to your exact specification, is very reasonable, and turns them around very quickly.

Beaky, WUF, Sidestreamobile and several others have PSH hoses.

Phone 01162452322 and say John Sims recommended him then I might get a discount next time []

 

[pauljmcnulty]

Now, I'm not to technical, but.....

Are the bricks and plank of wood part of the kit? [8|]

Something tells me this could be a thread that runs for some time....[]

 

[Peter Empson]

Thanks for the tip off John, just found his website http://www.performancesiliconehoses.com/ and it looks really useful. SFR are going to quote me for their IC hoses (which I'd need to modify anyway) so may consider using this throughout instead.

Paul, I'm very dissapointed that our RS doesn't know about this part yet, its product code is: 944.bod.gei.tns.car.per

Best regards,
Peter

 

[sawood12]

Is there any company that does a complete kit to replace all the hoses for 944's or do you have to spec each hose individually? THis is a job i'd like to do on mine - the old black originals must be getting tired by now and ready to spring leaks.

 

[John Sims]

ORIGINAL: sawood12

Is there any company that does a complete kit to replace all the hoses for 944's or do you have to spec each hose individually? ....

I'm not aware of an off the shelf set.

So far Phil has done me an expansion tank to turbo pipe ('cos it's two different internal diameters and, because of the non standard turbo mine had to be longer) and a turbo to banjo pipe section. The easiest is to fax him a drawing ow what you want.

 

[Diver944]

I have some of the PSH hoses too. They seem to be very good quality at a reasonable price and were delivered within two days or ordering. The Rennlisters are trying to provide Samco with a complete set of hoses so they can make a copy set for anyone wanting to replace everything. I don't think they have a price quote yet ££££££

Peter, does the SFR kit come complete with a new chip if you buy at source? It may be worth trying to twist Tims arm and it would provide you with a base map to work from.

 

[edh]

You're not wating any time Peter []

Does the I/C not fit under the badge panel? - here's a nice mod you could be thinking about - although it might be a shame to cut a hole in that bonnet

http://www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=22610 - Steve Bassington's 931 Sprint Car

Even with modest boost this could be pushing you to the 300bhp mark - Be interested to see what you do with EMS. I see SFR just sell a piggyback fuel controller with this kit.

You're going to have to take some more weight out to compensate for all these extra bits though []

 

[Diver944]

If you compare that our 2.5 litre cars make 250 bhp at 0.8 bar with a low compression engine and 8 valve head, then if everything else was equal a 3.0 litre S2 at 0.8 bar with higher compression and 16 Valve head should be easily north of 300bhp. IIRC Peters current supercharger setup is for 7psi ( 0.5bar ) and his is going to run through a less restrictive MAF so I am going to guess he should easily break 300bhp at that low level of boost.

Also he will not have any lag, but his torque should be down on a turbocharged car. I can't wait to see the results [8D]

 

[Peter Empson]

ORIGINAL: edh

Does the I/C not fit under the badge panel? - here's a nice mod you could be thinking about - although it might be a shame to cut a hole in that bonnet

http://www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=22610 - Steve Bassington's 931 Sprint Car

That intercooler is too large to fit under the badge panel (there's also less room under that 924T panel compared to 944T). I could fit a 951 I/C but the one with the kit looks like it will be more effiicient and more suited when I run higher boost. I've never been very happy with the factory location of the oil cooler either, it gets in the way of where I want to run the brake cooling so moving that to the badge panel makes a lot of sense to me.

Funnily enough I was looking at that thread regarding the 924CGT clone just last night, it's a wonderful looking car and seems to be seriously sorted. I may look into venting the bonnet if the temps get a bit too high, but hopefully the larger oil cooler and I/C should keep it safe.

The first box containing everything bar the radiator weighed 22kg inc packaging so there is a fair bit of extra weight, but I don't think it's going to be too tricky to loose that from the front end when it's all done. Stripping the front end off revealed that my existing rad is on it's way out, it's collapsed at the bottom so it was lucky I spotted it in time.

Paul, as Ed mentioned SFR now use a fuel controller, to me it seems a rather basic solution but it clearly works for them, trouble is suspect it might not adjusting fopr our fuel, so even as a temporary solution I suspect it might not be ideal. It's discussed here if you're interested:

http://www.968forums.com/index.php?showtopic=3586&hl

The more I read about the Maxhpkit you suggested the more it makes sense. I do wonder if the 968 chip that came with the kit might give us some clues to getting a basic setup, but I'm not sure if the data will be compatible. I'll email them and see what they suggest.

As for power, anything over 280 would be nice to start with. I'm a bit worried I'll loose the wonderful low down torque that the head has given me, but as I don't plan to fit an LSD until I really need to it'll probably help traction through tighter corners.

Best regards,
Peter

 

[edh]

I doubt you'll lose torque Peter - I expect you'll have loads more from very low down

 

[sawood12]

I'm surprised a stock turbo intercooler wont be man enough for the job. I've been reading up on this and it seems bigger is not always better when it comes to IC's. Yes there is a benefit to cooling down your charge air but as IC's get bigger there comes a point where it becomes counter-productive as the pressure drop across the IC starts to cancel out the benefit of cooling the charge air. A smaller more efficient IC is the way to go. I'd like to see a charge cooler kit similar to what Lotus used on the proper Esprit's i.e. the 4-cylinder ones.

 

[333pg333]

ORIGINAL: sawood12

Is there any company that does a complete kit to replace all the hoses for 944's or do you have to spec each hose individually? THis is a job i'd like to do on mine - the old black originals must be getting tired by now and ready to spring leaks.

Scott, I thought Lindsey had them all?

 

[333pg333]

Hi Peter, nice pickup! I'd like to see less 90 degree bends in you i/c plumbing but maybe that's how it has to be. I too have been looking at that 924 and I am intending to do something very similar which I believe will add much more air movement and efficiency. I don't have any problems with the size of the i/c's that we see on our cars and I really don't believe that they will do anything but increase efficiency of VE.
Are you going to decrease your c/r to go up in boost? Cometic do various thickness headgaskets or you could just order some custom pistons too.
I look forward to your progress.
Patrick

 

[Big Dave]

Pete.
Dont put off fitting a LSD TOO long.. Its poss one of THE best mods i did to my S2....I think youl DEFO need it when you get more POWER.....[]

 

[Peter Empson]

Thanks for all the comments guys.

I'm sure the I/C is overkill with the low initial boost, but I want to iron out any bugs with the setup early on before upping the boost. I agree about the number of 90 degree bends, I'll start with the stock SFR setup and then see if there's any room for improvement.

The long term plan is to have a low compression bottom end built when my existing engine shows signs of age. I discussed this briefly with Simon at SPS when I was collecting my cylinder head and am sure he has a few ideas. However I hope this will be in a while as I still need to sort out the bodywork []

As for the LSD, I take your point Dave, I've not driven one with an LSD but I am so happy with my existing setup I dont want it to change much. Currently I have no traction issues at all which is thanks to how stiff the springs are, but my box is rather noisy so it's going to need replacing/rebuilding at some point and I guess it'd be rude not fit a Quaife one then.

Best regards,
Peter

 

[333pg333]

Peter, I have to agree with Big Dave. The LSD is a given once you've started cranking up the s/c. You should increase your lower power delivery substantially and will benefit from one of these. Don't worry about it changing the day to day driveability either. I have an 80% motorsport one and I don't even notice it on the road so I wouldn't worry if that's any help. Doing a bottom end rebuild is a good idea and you've got Arrow in the UK to provide custom pieces too. I already have their rods and will be utilising their skills on another project soon. I've heard very good things of Simon too. Go for it mate!

 

[Diver944]

Stop encouraging him to buy more go faster goodies, he's fast enough as it is.

What he really needs is 200 kilos of sandbags in his boot, he will have fantastic traction and it should provide a really wikkid 'slammed to the floor' look. In fact my local builders merchants would be happy to help with the installation and I could probably get you a good price too []

 

[333pg333]

Heheheheheh!

 

[Peter Empson]

This is a long overdue update, I'm not quite there yet, but some real progress has been going on []

First job was sorting the engine management and injectors, as quite a few people here already have the Vitesse piggyback I wont go on about it, but there's short bit about it here on my website.

I then started to install the Supercharger but have come up against a fitment issue, the intake pipe that goes into the rear of the blower is fouling, some cutting down of the pipe has helped but there's still not enough clearance and I suspect it'll need a flat beaten into it to provide clearance. I've decided to hand this over the job to RPM to try to complete the install for me (which will be made much easier when the car is up on their ramps). I'm gutted that I wont be finishing it off, but I can only waste so many weekends trying!

The alternator drop bracket (shown fitted above) replaces the original cast mount.

With the supercharger trial mounted it becomes obvious that the top radiator hose will foul the supercharger pulley and so has to be cut down. This is quite possibly specific to my car as the power steering pulley cuts through the lower rad hose unless it's shortened, I can only guess my aftermarket radiator must be thicker than normal.

The pipes to the intercooler are just laid in place to check fitment, which looks promising. The connections on the 968 intercooler had to be cut to change their exit angle (they angled inwards and this isn't suitable for a 944, it also reduces the number of bends required, hopefully improving air flow).

I'm rather hopeful the next update will be with it all finally fitted, I have my fingers crossed!