Suspension Upgrade
- Thread starter scratcn
- Start date
I've seen suspension listed by parts suppliers as fitting the Turbo when it doesn't. If it doesn't fit the Turbo it won't fit the S2. Both of those cars use a much thinner OD spring which is the easiest way of identifying what you have. '86 Turbos are subtly different again as they have the pre-ABS offset and different hubs/wishbones.. I honestly don't know if the strut is different also but I think it is.
Neil Haughey
New member
AFAIK this was looked into before either on here or titanic and the Bilstein inserts are not designed for the S2, late turbo and 968 struts.
I have the koni inserts on my car and 944 M030 koni rear shocks, they work great but are really only for stock or mildly upgraded springs IMHO. I have 27 mm torsion bars in the rear and have the koni shocks set full hard now and the fronts something like 2/3rds hard. They seem to work better on the softer settings but at this level don't seem to do much if anything more then the stock F&S shocks I have on the 968 for example. Just MHO but I don't really see them as a serious track mod more a cheap way of replenishing the stock suspension with something that has a small amount of tuning/adjustment capability.
I have the koni inserts on my car and 944 M030 koni rear shocks, they work great but are really only for stock or mildly upgraded springs IMHO. I have 27 mm torsion bars in the rear and have the koni shocks set full hard now and the fronts something like 2/3rds hard. They seem to work better on the softer settings but at this level don't seem to do much if anything more then the stock F&S shocks I have on the 968 for example. Just MHO but I don't really see them as a serious track mod more a cheap way of replenishing the stock suspension with something that has a small amount of tuning/adjustment capability.
Thanks for that Neil. I have the later turbo, so trying to narrow down what inserts will fit is a task itself. Are these the same struts as a 968? What are the standard spring rates on a '90 turbo (200lbs)? I guess a reputable indie can advise, rather than those feeding the general performance market. I am sure Fen/Neil/BigDave can give a definitive answer. thanks again
In short - Koni Sport inserts will fit a turbo 87 onwards (may be others too but not too sure which so thought I better not guess)
The Bilstein B6 inserts only fit lux's - I've done all the research and spoken to the helpful guys at Bilstein (when you can find out how to get in touch with them), and they WILL NOT fit a Turbo.
If anyone wants more detailed info, feel free to PM me, I didn't wanna ramble on too much, as it's been done to death on various threads in the last 6 months.
Mike
The Bilstein B6 inserts only fit lux's - I've done all the research and spoken to the helpful guys at Bilstein (when you can find out how to get in touch with them), and they WILL NOT fit a Turbo.
If anyone wants more detailed info, feel free to PM me, I didn't wanna ramble on too much, as it's been done to death on various threads in the last 6 months.
Mike
Neil Haughey
New member
Funnily enough I looked this up the other night in the workshop manuals for both cars. Late model 944 turbo and 968 both listed as 28 N/mm and early turbos and S2 have 21.8 N/mm springs. Applying the handy converters found on the net this works out at 160 lb/inch for 968 and late turbo, 125 lb/inch early turbo and S2. TBH both sound low to me but if anyone cares to check the workshop manuals again and work it out please do (It was late and I was tired the numbers are from memory).
A couple of other things I remembered poking around the manuals and PET's; 968 CS springs and stock 968 springs have the same rate, the CS springs are just a little shorter so basically myth busted 968 CS suspension is more or less identical to stock 968. Both the 968 and the late turbo also have the same 25.5 mm rear torsion bars, S2 has thinner rear torsion bars the same spec as basic 944 (24 mm?).
ISTR that all the cars we are talking about; S2, 968 have different front struts even though they may seem the same. Likewise the rear shocks are different. ISTR that Bert Gear lists them as different with a different price.
Front wishbone castor blocks are not the same on 944 and 968 now, despite several years ago being told this by an OPC. The part numbers are uniquely different for 944, 944 M030 and 968. I have the 968 ones on my S2 which are a superb upgrade but just bought a pair for the 968 at 60 quid a pop now so getting pricey. Front strut top mounts are however the same part number on the PET for both 968/944 now. They are stupidly expensive though I was quoted something like £450 a pair the other day and a similar price for the rear suspension spring plates (again same part nos. across 944/968). So I guess its aftermarket for sorting out these 2 items.
The koni inserts are for all cars that had the non-rebuildable front Fichtel & Sachs struts, thus they are for S2/968 and late turbo's.
Neil Haughey
New member
Forgot to add 90 on turbo and S2 is AFAIK the same front strut, 200 quid each from Bert so probably cheaper to rebuild with koni inserts.
Better is a personal preference thing really. I think they offer better damping than standard yes, though they're at the firm ish end of the scale for standard springs and torsion bars - perfectly fine though, I'm quite happy with mine, especially when you consider the price of other options.
Did you say you had MO30 suspension ? as it's only those ones that Promax can have rebuilt. Normal Turbo shocks like on mine are non-rebuildable, so it was replace or suffer with them.
Mike
Tony,
When I researched this, I found that the struts that fit S2's, (later) Turbos and 968's are all the same, with the slightly smaller diameter springs. They all will take the Koni top-adjust insert, and fitting them is easy.
The struts for the earlier cars have unscrew-able tops, and you have a much wider choice of insert to put in there as they don't need bolting in at the bottom (as the cut-and-shut Koni ones do.)
I used the Koni inserts on my S2 and they made a great improvement. However, that could be more of a reflection of how past-it the old units were (and I was amazed at how well the 944 chassis hid the knackered-ness of the old ones!)
Chapest place to buy the inserts from was Proven Products. I've used them before, and their service is excellent and prices keen.
Oli.
When I researched this, I found that the struts that fit S2's, (later) Turbos and 968's are all the same, with the slightly smaller diameter springs. They all will take the Koni top-adjust insert, and fitting them is easy.
The struts for the earlier cars have unscrew-able tops, and you have a much wider choice of insert to put in there as they don't need bolting in at the bottom (as the cut-and-shut Koni ones do.)
I used the Koni inserts on my S2 and they made a great improvement. However, that could be more of a reflection of how past-it the old units were (and I was amazed at how well the 944 chassis hid the knackered-ness of the old ones!)
Chapest place to buy the inserts from was Proven Products. I've used them before, and their service is excellent and prices keen.
Oli.
Diver944
Active member
For your useage I would recommend just the standard OE bushes. They will be a vast improvement over your worn out 20 year old pieces of rubber.
I would steer clear from the aftermarket bushes unless your car was more dedicated to the track and I fear they would make your Cabrio less than comfortable for normal road use
944 turbo cabrio
New member
Sounds like safe advice - was thinking along the same line but wanted to be sure I wasn't cheating myself by being a sissy 
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I've currently taken a different route going with poly-bushes, 968 rear mount using new standard oem struts/shocks. I'll report back on how hard this setup is on the road. One thing I've noticed is how inefficient the old struts were are after 100K on the clock.
I found Design911 to be good on prices, although make sure they know the exact setup for your car when ordering bushes.
I've currently taken a different route going with poly-bushes, 968 rear mount using new standard oem struts/shocks. I'll report back on how hard this setup is on the road. One thing I've noticed is how inefficient the old struts were are after 100K on the clock.I found Design911 to be good on prices, although make sure they know the exact setup for your car when ordering bushes.
944 turbo cabrio
New member
Dear Wibble,
seems interesting.
I have also heard of Delrin being used by some companies but don't know if that is better than Polyflex.
Cheers
Niels
seems interesting.
I have also heard of Delrin being used by some companies but don't know if that is better than Polyflex.
Cheers
Niels
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