Those looking for a C2

[appletonn]

ORIGINAL: graham harvey

I'm interested with people's views on mileage. I bought mine on approx 87k (it's a LHD) and 7 years later it now has 140k on the clock. It has been regularly serviced with no expense spared, new oil pipes all round etc. What are your views on when a rebuild is required? The last rolling road averaged 281bhp and other than a few odd drips of oil, I cannot see a reason for a rebuild. What are your thoughts? What does a leak down test show?

The leakdown test shows whether your piston rings/bores or valves are worn, by pressurising each cylinder in turn with compressed air and monitoring how quickly that air pressure drops due to leakage - you can then identify where the leakage is happening by listening at the air inlet and exhaust outlet for the sound of escaping air.

If your engine is still within Porsche specs for oil consumption and is clearly still strong and relatively leak free, then I would see no reason to touch it - if it aint broke etc.....![]

 

[graham harvey]

Thanks Nick, I think I'll certainly have one done to check it for sure. Is this a specialist job or would be independant be able to do it?

 

[appletonn]

ORIGINAL: graham harvey

Thanks Nick, I think I'll certainly have one done to check it for sure. Is this a specialist job or would be independant be able to do it?

My independant Porsche specialist did my car to try and determine where the wear was before stripping the engine down.

 

[colin129]

ORIGINAL: Steve Brookes

With the age of these cars 130,000 miles is really only average mileage IMO. The condition the car is in is the key to whether it is a good one.

I'm interested with people's views on mileage. I bought mine on approx 87k (it's a LHD) and 7 years later it now has 140k on the clock. It has been regularly serviced with no expense spared, new oil pipes all round etc. What are your views on when a rebuild is required? The last rolling road averaged 281bhp and other than a few odd drips of oil, I cannot see a reason for a rebuild. What are your thoughts? What does a leak down test show?

I take what you are saying Steve, the condition should take precidence over mileage, but in the real world, people will think twice about viewing a car with a much higher mileage.

From personal experience, I really struggled to sell my 192,000 mile 944S2, despite an impeccable service history and not having any of the obvious/well know issues. I tried to sell it to various specialists who knew that the mileage would put potential buyers off. I eventually did find a buyer, but if it had covered 60K miles less, it may have sold 12 months earlier when prices were about 50% higher.

This is why, if I had the funds, I would swop my 141K car for one with around 100K, simply because I know I will struggle to sell when the mileage creeps over 150K.

Having said that, even with around 100K on the clock, I would not touch an earlier car which had not had a re-build because a £6K - £8K bill would finish me! However, I believe the engine in last years of production did not suffer the oil leakage and other problems of the earlier cars (is that right?).

 

[Steve Brookes]

With recent dyno results indicating 281 bhp I don't think I would bother having a leakdown test. The engine is clearly strong. The results of a test could then put your mind into an (expensive) state of confusion.

 

[Steve Brookes]

ORIGINAL: colin129

This is why, if I had the funds, I would swop my 141K car for one with around 100K, simply because I know I will struggle to sell when the mileage creeps over 150K.

Having said that, even with around 100K on the clock, I would not touch an earlier car which had not had a re-build because a £6K - £8K bill would finish me! However, I believe the engine in last years of production did not suffer the oil leakage and other problems of the earlier cars (is that right?).

That's a very interesting idea but brings me back to what I've said before and that is....'better the devil you know'. Jumping from the car you know to a slightly newer one with lower miles is no guarantee that there are not big bills round the corner. True, the late cars had the leaky cylinder head problem fixed but re-builds in the truest sense are done to refresh the worn mechanical parts of the engine, not to fix leaks. The leaks get fixed as part of the process. Any buyer, should look at the accompanying paperwork carefully when buying a car that is claimed to have had the engine rebuilt. My own 167K car was advertised as a 'top end rebuild'. In reality it had gaskets and piston rings and I don't consider this to be a rebuild.

From a personal point of view I will never own another 964 (presuming I don't ever write this one off). I've made my bed, so to speak, with the one I've got. I've spent a lot of money on it and will continue to do so. That money is the cost to me of enjoying it and I don't expect to get it back. i.e. the money is spent on the car for my own benefit, not a future owner. If I ever sell it, it will be because I've had enough of 964s and want to move on to something else. I realize that I'm quite different to many others in this respect because I don't regard any car an investment which is probably why I didn't buy a 993! []

 

[graham harvey]

ORIGINAL: Steve Brookes

With recent dyno results indicating 281 bhp I don't think I would bother having a leakdown test. The engine is clearly strong. The results of a test could then put your mind into an (expensive) state of confusion.

Thanks Steve. The 281bhp has been achieved through a decat pipe, cup pipe (yes my neighbours love me !! ), K&N and Cargraphic chip. My guess is that the actual engine must be still strong however, as I would not expect those results if the engine in standard form was not still strong.

 

[RLambert]

I agree with Steve that the condition of the shell is becoming the most important thing to consider, however I would add that with high mileage that mechanical wear can become a major issue. My C2 race car has done 190,000 miles, the previous (only) owner had the motor rebuilt by a Porsche dealer at 160k and significant cost as it was leaking a lot of oil. It then started leaking again at 180k and the dealer said it needed new crankcases, so effectively a new motor. The cost became too much and he traded the car in.

Also there are things like the suspension, steering, pedal box, brake components, electric, trim etc etc that all wear out...it gets expensive !

So yes mileage shouldn't be the main deciding factor but it's potential cost must be considered.

My C2 has a new motor now by the way..... and it's fab!

 

[Steve Brookes]

ORIGINAL: RLambert

My C2 has a new motor now by the way..... and it's fab!

I trust you'll be racing it again this year Richard?

 

[Lemon]

ORIGINAL: appletonn

ORIGINAL: graham harvey

Thanks Nick, I think I'll certainly have one done to check it for sure. Is this a specialist job or would be independant be able to do it?

My independant Porsche specialist did my car to try and determine where the wear was before stripping the engine down.

Any idea Nick how much a leak down test is? Approx []

 

[appletonn]

ORIGINAL: Lemon

ORIGINAL: appletonn

ORIGINAL: graham harvey

Thanks Nick, I think I'll certainly have one done to check it for sure. Is this a specialist job or would be independant be able to do it?

My independant Porsche specialist did my car to try and determine where the wear was before stripping the engine down.

Any idea Nick how much a leak down test is? Approx []

Well it took Jonny at Unit 11 about 30 minutes while I watched nervously - so around £25, although I think they only charge around £60-70 to do a full pre-purchase inspection that I think, includes the leakdown test.

Give Jonny a ring.

 

[RLambert]

I'm planning to do Zolder in May (as it will be a good lads weekend) but not sure I'll make any other meetings. My son is racing karts which sucks up all my time and money and my missis is expecting in a few weeks too so she'll have something to say if I start going racing every weekend !

 

[colin129]

Could be interesting if you don't mind LHD, colour is a bit different too.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/PORSCHE-911-964-3-6-C2-LHD-LEFT-HAND-DRIVE_W0QQitemZ220541051389QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAutomobiles_UK?hash=item33594561fd

 

[polar964]

ORIGINAL: Steve Brookes

With the age of these cars 130,000 miles is really only average mileage IMO. The condition the car is in is the key to whether it is a good one.

+1
... and if car runs and pulls well with no sign of oil burn or rattles why strip it down. Depends how the cars been driven and cared for IMO FWIW.

+ if in any doubt, as has been said, include a leak-down test in the pre-purchase inspection.

 

[appletonn]

For those fans of original C2s in Guards Red...[]

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1408903.htm

 

[Steve Brookes]

For me, your dad's car is an ideal choice for anyone wanting to get their first 964 []

 

[sidavey]

Hello Gents and thanks for some very useful information on the forum, most appear to be genuine guys and true enthusiasts, which has led me to have some confidence to reply to the post. So thanks for that.

I have been a 964 owner for over 3 years now and just starting to get into it all, specialist servicing while I do relatively simple tasks like changing brake pads, and other assorted elec fixing jobs - oh and the targa roof that was very difficult. Fixed the water leak but now I have a windnoise issue above 60 ish - oops. My need someone that know whats they are doing so I am saving up for that one!

As my car has now covered 135k (4k p.a.), I have been wondering for some time whether I should invest in a top end re-build. But the leak test appears to be a good strategy for the short time so thank you for that snippet of info. Surely it is better not to start stripping things out for a re-build unless absolutely necessary.

Simon
Bucks
1990 964 C2 Tip Targa (Satin met black / black leather)

 

[deutschland dobson]

Welcome aboard Simon![]

Any pics of your car? The satin black sounds interesting.

Chris

 

[JamesBall]

When I was looking to get a PPI done by GT One (which didn't happen in the end) they advised against a leakdown test saying that if it is smoky or under-powered you know it has a problem and needs a top end rebuild (at least). If it isn't smoky and pulls well then there isn't a problem and no need to do the leakdown test. I was surprised but I can follow the logic.

On a different subject, £70 for a PPI at Unit 11 is great value. It is normally double that.

 

[appletonn]

ORIGINAL: James Ball

When I was looking to get a PPI done by GT One (which didn't happen in the end) they advised against a leakdown test saying that if it is smoky or under-powered you know it has a problem and needs a top end rebuild (at least). If it isn't smoky and pulls well then there isn't a problem and no need to do the leakdown test. I was surprised but I can follow the logic.

On a different subject, £70 for a PPI at Unit 11 is great value. It is normally double that.

I would get an up to date quote first - that was a few years ago now, so could well be more now. They are very reasonably priced though in general for all of their work