Turbo S Test Drive
- Thread starter blueSL
- Start date
It is most unusual if he is wrong. Normally very reliable and I would back his technical knowledge against most others. Of course the Porsche website could be wrong. There is a section on there which talks about the 3 litre flat 6 [
] http://www.porsche.com/uk/models/911/911-turbo-s/concept/idea/
] http://www.porsche.com/uk/models/911/911-turbo-s/concept/idea/
Ah ha - 'fraid he is wrong in this instance - maybe he was trying hard to sell me one. [] "My mistake the hydraulic pump is for the PDCC system only the steering is electric please forgive me, but I have been reading the technical info today." Sorry if I got everyone excited. Regards, Clive
] "My mistake the hydraulic pump is for the PDCC system only the steering is electric please forgive me, but I have been reading the technical info today." Sorry if I got everyone excited. Regards, Clive
I bet it was fast ....
Clive, I know the move to electomechanical steering assistance has met resistance in the press, and on here too, but in its defence I found it’s fine for normal everyday use. Maybe for those who visit the outer edges of the performance envelope it is less communicative than hydraulic assistance but as I never go there it is a non issue. For me the benchmark for the communicative steering was 3.0 Carrera of the mid ‘80’s or perhaps the 964RS of early ‘90’s and it’s been downhill ever since. Once you add weight, FWD etc a degree of numbness must follow. If the argument is that such feedback as there was from a hydraulic system was genuine whereas that of an electomechanical assist is programmed in electronically, who is to say that in time the nature of the electromechancial feedback can’t be a user selectable item. “Mmmm today I think I’ll start with some 993, then liven things up with a bit of 2.7RS, before a few miles Carrera RSR from 1974. And just to wind things up a little more I quite like the coasting feature too! Cheers
Interesting thoughts Nick and I hope you'll let us know how you feel about it when the 4WD, 4WS Turbo 'S' comes along. Many 991's owners say they can't tell the difference, but I know when I drove an early C2S's for my PP report, there was a noticeable amount of play in the steering in the straight ahead position and a very slight delay in response when pressing on into a fast bend, which I found to be somewhat disconcerting. Porsche have, of course, considered it necessary to re-engineer the system in GT3, so clearly there is some room for modification. In the final analysis, the proof of the pudding is in the driving, so I shall be keeping an open mind until I can get my hands on one! [] Regards, Clive.
] Regards, Clive.
I am afraid I am a bit cynical about this. I have a mate with a 1980's SC and drove it back to back with the beast and swapped . If you held the steering wheel lightly and did not grip for dear life we both agreed the same amount of "feel" was there ie information on whats going on the road; just in one you got full kick back from bumps potholes the other was more damped. Same for the 986 to 987 Boxster everyone complained about "feel"but the road info was there just the kickback and "noise" toned down in the 987 (I had both for a lot of miles). Since then I have had a healthy disregard for stuff in the press on this matter. Again with the Turbo S hold the steering lightly there is feel there, not as much as the 2wd but there is plenty of info coming to your hands and though your seat on what the car is up to. Less than the 2WD? yes - but the Turbo is supposed to be more of a cruiser and less tiring for long distance or everyday use. So I am with Clive 'till I get one and have driven it for a while I am not placed to comment beyond - "they always say that on a new 911 model and with the new turbo" and there always is some good feel with more of the c**p filtered out. Don't know with the current model but I am very interested to find out for myself.
Tom, you make the very point I made when I first got my C2S. The steering is different but the feel is there. A more delicate handling of the wheel gives plenty of feedback, just more subtle than previous models. I'm no driving god (no laughter from the back) but I've not noticed any vagueness or reluctance to turn in, quite the contrary, it's pointier than my 997s. Not had the privilege of driving the turbo or s yet but suspect the comparison with previous models will be similar. Nick will no doubt give us a definitive as he'll have experience of ownership of all of them soon!
Some information here which suggests that behind the apparently modest headline power uplift for the 991 version of the turbo S over the 997 lie some more broadly based refinements and improvements to the power train. Little if any of this appears in journo articles which tend to target more the tyre smoking, oversteer, trousers on fire audience. I found the comments somewhere on Rennlist but can’t exactly recall where. I include them verbatim. Start of quote “This may be interesting to some of you, some 991 Turbo S vs. 997 Turbo S (previous model) fun facts. I apologize for sometimes not using the right technical term, I translated it from German. Enjoy. • 4% less performance/weight ratio (2,87 kg/hp vs. 2,99 kg/hp) • 123 kg more downforce at 300 kph in Performance Mode (9 kg in Speed mode, same as 997 Turbo S) • 28 mm wider in the rear than 997 Turbo S • 200 rpm higher rev limiter (7200 rpm instead of 7000 rpm) • Completely newly developed exhaust manifold, conrods, pistons and adjusted VTG chargers. • Middle cooler in the front is a new development with a higher cooling capacity. The cooling fans have an improved power of 400 W (vs. 280 W in the 997) • Turbo S Airblades improve cooling to the side coolers, they are also standard on the regular Turbo in regions with very hot climate. • Intercoolers similar to 997 models but due to the new side vents and air outlets in the lower rear bumper, air flow has been substantially improved. • Optional round sport pipes for the exhaust system are made of titanium and are polished. • 991 Turbo S sounds sportier at idle than 991 Turbo (different sound symposer programming, VTG blade "opens", later ignition timing), in Sport and Sport Plus mode, the idle rpm figure is raised from 680 to 800 rpm (both Turbo S and Turbo) • Sound symposer does not create artificial sound, it transmits the "natural" sound of the engine from the engine bay into the interior. Unlike in the Carrera models (2 chamber sound symposer), the Turbo/S sound symposer has 4 chambers. • PDK has been improved substantially, incl. an integrated rear axle differential lock and a thermodynamic integration into the cooling system of the car. Especially the automatic function of the PDK has been highly improved but also shifting speed and comfort. • Electrohydraulic operated PTM clutch for front axle allows 10% more power and at the same time a much faster and more precise reaction. This improves driving dynamics and traction. For even better durability at extreme stress, a water cooling system has been added, which is integrated into the engine's cooling system, incl. a separate electric water pump and a separate oil/water heat exchanger. • Front axle tread has been increased by 48 mm and 33 mm on the rear axle. • Rear axle steering switches to a more dynamic setup in Sport Plus mode. • 10% more direct steering than on 997. • 3. Generation PCCB (997 uses 2. generation PCCB) with calipers made of aluminum (997: stainless steel), which results in a further weight reduction and more ceramic compound in the discs, resulting in a much better durability under high stress to avoid excessive wear on the track like on the "old" generation. • PCCB front discs 410 mm (997: 380 mm) and rear discs 390 mm (997: 350 mm). • Optional Sport Classic rims not offered in Japan. • Sport Plus mode specifically "tuned" for race track. • Front fenders are made of aluminum. • 10 l more luggage room (front) • The rear wing adapts it's angle to open or closed sun roof. • At speeds over 270 kph, you cannot operate the PAA (Porsche Active Aerodynamics) system. • In Performance mode, front axle downforce is 44 kg (997: 18 kg drag) and rear axle downforce is 88 kg (997: 27 kg) • Battery capacity has increased to 95 Ah (997: 70 Ah) • Engine control unit is Siemens SDI 9 (997: SDI 3.1) • 991 Turbo S has different camber setting (-35' +/- 15') than 991 Turbo (-50' +/-15'). • 991 Turbo S turning circle is 0.3 meters shorter at 10.6 m (997: 10.9 m) • 991 Turbo S uses ABS 9.0 (997: ABS 8.0) • 991 Turbo S has 1 mm more ground clearance than 997 model. • Angle of slope is 10.3° (997: 7,8°), huge difference. • Frontal area is 2,07 qm (997: 2,05 qm). • The new engine is basically the old one with completely new conrods, pistons and exhaust manifolds. The VTG chargers have been modified but they are basically similar to the old 997 models. • Basically the old engine doesn't mean that they took the old engine and just added new conrods, pistons, etc. to it. In reality, both engines, new and old, don't share much parts, so the new engine is new but like mentioned before, based on the old one. It is not a completely new development like the DI engine was vs. the older Mezger engine (997.2 Turbo vs. 997.1 Turbo). • The additional 20 hp in power in the new 991 Turbo are achieved with a similar turbo boost pressure of around 1.0 bar but Porsche improved the efficiency factor of the engine with higher internal combustion pressures and a new software mapping adjustment of the engine valve timing and ignition angle. Overall, the new thermodynamical setup not only provides better fuel efficiency and emissions but also power. Therefore, the cooling system has been improved a lot. • The maximum boost pressure of the 991 Turbo S is 1.2 bar, even with overboost but in the lower and mid rev range, the overboost adds aprox. 0.15 bar boost pressure for around 20 seconds. Meaning: The maximum power of the car doesn't rise but the specific power levels in the lower and mid rev range do, not to mention the torque levels, incl. the maximum torque level. • Many wonder why Porsche would bother to raise the rev limit of the 991 Turbo S to 7200 (from 7000) rpm but those 200 rpm make a huge impact after shifting because the car enters it's optimum rev range for the next gear, providing a higher torque too in that moment. So while the 200 rpm difference seem ridiculously low, they have a huge impact on overall performance, more than the 40 hp difference would make believe. • The VTG chargers in the new 991 Turbo/Turbo S have new compressors to improve boost pressure efficiency and reaction time. • What has also been heavily modified is the whole exhaust system, incl. airbox (air intake chamber) and manifolds • Sorry, this is all I have. †End of quote. Merry Christmas Nick
Now on my 9th Porsche and after owning several Ferrari's went to a GT3RS loved it but not a track man and sold for what I virtually paid for it after 2 years, been thinking of a 991 turbo S but it's the first time in 7 years I have been thinking of changing brand. , I just can't get my heard round a £145k turbo s , when a last series 997 gen2 loaded can be had for virtually £50+ k less . Or even for the price of a new turbo s I can get a very late Ferrari 458 , I feel this may be the last Porsche I own. I am disappointed in the pricing structure of Porsche but I must be wrong as their cars sales are booming!
At £140,852, 991 Turbo S is 14% higher priced than the previous 2010 (997) version, but has improved technology and by all accounts is a significant improvement in performance - more than the quoted performance figures would suggest. [] Looking at the competition, there is the obvious comparison with the 562bhp, £178,526 Ferrari 458 Italia and the 616bhp £176,000 McLaren 12C and then you have the 731bhp Ferrari F12 @ £239,352, the 565bhp Aston Martin Vanquish @ £191,080, the 591bhp Mercedes SLS Coupe @£165,030 and the 700bhp Lamborghini LP700 @ £260,040. So in this rarefied atmosphere it could be considered a bargain, especially if you take into account efficiency and running costs. The Porsche will arguably cost less to run and is likely to be more reliable too. Then again, there is the 542bhp Audi R8 V10 Plus at £128,710 and the 542bhp Nissan GT-R at £76,610 if you want to save a few quid and you consider these to be suitable comparable vehicles. [] Regards, Clive.
] Looking at the competition, there is the obvious comparison with the 562bhp, £178,526 Ferrari 458 Italia and the 616bhp £176,000 McLaren 12C and then you have the 731bhp Ferrari F12 @ £239,352, the 565bhp Aston Martin Vanquish @ £191,080, the 591bhp Mercedes SLS Coupe @£165,030 and the 700bhp Lamborghini LP700 @ £260,040. So in this rarefied atmosphere it could be considered a bargain, especially if you take into account efficiency and running costs. The Porsche will arguably cost less to run and is likely to be more reliable too. Then again, there is the 542bhp Audi R8 V10 Plus at £128,710 and the 542bhp Nissan GT-R at £76,610 if you want to save a few quid and you consider these to be suitable comparable vehicles. [] Regards, Clive.
Choice would be nice but I wonder if there is a market price ceiling for Porsche. It might be astonishing for an every day /cross country car etc but why pay that much for an every day car? Isn't the emotional pull towards something that looks more exciting, rarer?
I don't think I did a report did I of my Silverstone day with a 991 Turbo S? I think that in itself tells you more about the car than anything else. As others have said, it is mighty impressive (well only in Sports Plus) bit of kit but just doesn't excite you. I think if I owned a private race track I'd probably want one more, but on the public roads I can't use the power/ability I have now in my 997, why would I want more?! Areas my 997 Turbo that actually needed improvement haven't been addressed enough by the 991 Turbo S in my opinion... Looks, noise (apparently accounting for 50% of any driving experience), exclusivity, and that 'fizz' James May is always going on about. But then again, I suppose it depends what you are after. A weekend fun car, or a Swiss Army knife of a car that you can use for commuting or a road trip across Europe... Be interesting to see the new Lamborghini Huracan coming out shortly. I have been invited to a private viewing at the weekend in London but sadly can't make it, so will have to wait until it comes to my local showroom in a month or two.
Is Colour to Sample Black better than black!
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