V8 944?

[blease]

There is also lots of information, including downloadable pdf's of how to do it at www.944v8s.com. I've been fascinated with this topic for years and visited Renegade in Vegas in 2005. There is lots of forum friction over there but its clear that the conversion works. Hats off to Promax for putting together a very tempting package. I did the sums on a do-it-yourself project and it came out at roughly 15k. So 20k for a warranted job looks very good value indeed.
Time to go back down the sofa to look for a spare 20k!!

 

[AndrewS]

Hi Tony,
LS2 vs. LS3

200 extra CC, different heads, different valves and flow characteristics. LS3 flows air better, makes more power and responds better to tuning.

Works better with Superchargers and Turbochargers. Whilst the biggest outputs (1000 bhp+) have already been achieved by Monkfish (our sister company) with the LS7. The LS3 is deemed the better engine for all round drivabillity.

For the 1000bhp car see here.

Regards,
Andrew

 

[sawood12]

Andrew,
Have you got one of these 944's up and running yet? I'd be interested in some piccies and a running report.

 

[AndrewS]

Hi Scott,

Not yet, we only fitted the engine (into a scrap 944 Turbo) to ensure it would all fit in (LS2).

If I can find a £1500 Turbo (that is a viable running/restorable car) then it would be a possibilty for us to build and test a fully running conversion.

Regards,
Andrew

 

[sawood12]

Would an S2 not make a suitable donor car? I know you don't get the LSD gearbox you do with the turbo, but other than that everything is the same apart from the stuff you're replacing isn't it - apart from front brakes, but they can be upgraded simply enough.

 

[zcacogp]

S2 has the same brakes as an early turbo (I think.) It does have the smaller ARB's (again the same as the early turbo, I think), but these aren't hard to upgrade either.

Andrew is talking about the £20k including KWv3 suspension, so any difference there would be immaterial. (Andrew, I think you said this - if you didn't then please do correct me.)

LSD? Were those standard on the turbos? I don't think they were, were they? Just different ratios and a gearbox oil cooler. LSD's were a more expensive extra.

Out of interest, Andrew, what would you include on the £20k car in terms of interior and exterior? Does that include a >DreamList< full bare metal respray in the colour of the client's choice and a re-trimmed interior >EndOfDreamList< or is it more of a case that you get the original interior and exterior, with any particularly iffy bits appropriately tended to?


Oli.

 

[sawood12]

The later turbo's had the bigger brakes and LSD's so I wonder if these are the reasons that they are targeting late turbo's? But even then with this amount of power and torque on offer I would still want to upgrade from medium blacks to at least big blacks/reds. Also he mentions that they would do this to a 968 which was never fitted with the brakes and LSD as standard so they are even more rare on a 968.

Just seems that targeting a late turbo with a half decent body and interior but knackered engine for £1500 seems a bit of a tall order - there can't be too many of those around. Targeting S2's would increase the number of donor cars out there.

I guess for a nice long distance cruising car a 968 V8 tiptronic might be pretty cool.

 

[Neil Haughey]

Nice idea Scott. The combination of easy torque, wide power band and nice rumble from the exhaust would be great in a 968 tip. However such a car sounds awfully like a 928.

 

[333pg333]

ORIGINAL: Neil Haughey

Nice idea Scott. The combination of easy torque, wide power band and nice rumble from the exhaust would be great in a 968 tip. However such a car sounds awfully like a 928.

Haha, too true Neil.

I think it would also depend on what the end user wanted out of his car. One guy might want a mini 928 where another might want a track oriented beast. I would agree that Big Reds and a larger rotor is a must so Scott's point is valid. Why just late model 951's? Not sure that the stock LSD would be up to it either, but Andrew was discussing torque maps to go easy on the components. I know Deutsch 9 are building a widebody with an LS7 targeted as the powerplant, but this is going to be a racecar and a special one at that.

 

[sawood12]

Well I would still see a 928 and v8944 as different cars for different purposes. A car is defined by more than its engine. I guess it is a bit like a DB9 vs AMv8 type of comparison.

 

[TTM]

I have always found 928 to drive much differently from 944s.
The quality of the steering on a well-sorted 928 is way above the 944's with no understeer whatsoever, the fussy suspension set up with twin front wishbones and multi link rear axle makes the 944's appear almost embarassingly basic, though that's why it feels overall more exciting to drive []

 

[AndrewS]

ORIGINAL: zcacogp

S2 has the same brakes as an early turbo (I think.) It does have the smaller ARB's (again the same as the early turbo, I think), but these aren't hard to upgrade either.

Andrew is talking about the £20k including KWv3 suspension, so any difference there would be immaterial. (Andrew, I think you said this - if you didn't then please do correct me.)

LSD? Were those standard on the turbos? I don't think they were, were they? Just different ratios and a gearbox oil cooler. LSD's were a more expensive extra.

Out of interest, Andrew, what would you include on the £20k car in terms of interior and exterior? Does that include a >DreamList< full bare metal respray in the colour of the client's choice and a re-trimmed interior >EndOfDreamList< or is it more of a case that you get the original interior and exterior, with any particularly iffy bits appropriately tended to?


Oli.

Hi Oli,

Reason for using the later 944 Turbo as a base car is because of brakes, transmission, A/C and LSD transaxle. However, brakes are easy to upgrade (and would be refurbished anyway). The finished car would include:

"¢ KW V3 Suspension.
"¢ As new brake callipers (probably new 928GTS fronts or Boxster style monobloc calipers).
"¢ New wheels bearings, suspension bushes and brake fluid hoses. Additional brake cooling.
"¢ Fully functioning A/C with modern available refrigerant (R134).
"¢ Any bodywork issues attended to (i. scuffs, blemishes. minor corrosion etc)
"¢ Only rust free base cars can be used.
"¢ Interior refreshed with replacement switches, LED backlighting and treated interior fabrics & materials
"¢ Interior stripped out during build enabling decontamination and sanitising of clockpit.
"¢ It would have that new car smell (not unlike the 'reborn' XJS featured on Top Gear a while back).
"¢ New colour matched 968 steering wheel with suitable 944 V8 motive.
"¢ Rear Turbo badge replaced with 944V8 in same script (if required).
"¢ New crate LS2 engine & clutch assembly.
"¢ Dyno proven and verified 425bhp minimum.
"¢ Specially developed torque mappings to safeguard transmission.
"¢ All exposed parts re treated to look as new.
"¢ Electronic switchable exhaust system.
"¢ 12 month unlimited mileage warranty.

The above is an indication how a turnkey customer car would be turned out (and we would use the best base car we could find - in the right colour to suit whatever the customer wanted). Disclaimer: The above does not constitute or imply what can be or will be provided. Each car would effectively be bespoke and build to any requested specification. The complete car would be delivered in accordance with any formulated agreement created between the supplier and the customer. The price of £19,995 GBP is the target price +/- any specific deletions or additions requested by the customer. NOTE: Discarded parts from the original donor car (engine, brakes and suspension) are retained by us.

For our in house project, I need a £1500 late model 250 turbo (possibly blown engine, can be tatty & mechanically tired - but not rotten) to use as a base. We can then build the concept cheaply for demonstration and marketing purposes - this would not be sold as a customer car. However, it would be used for evolving the product and developing new software; proving engine upgrades and other interesting enhancements.

For customers wanting to upgrade their own cars, we could supply a kit but we don't plan on getting involved in fitting to customer cars (becuase there are too many unknowns and potential issues with 20+ year old cars resulting in potentially high labour costs). Hence, our decision to sell either complete cars (as outlined with the bulleted list above) or DIY kits only (customer fits to their own car using their own sourced LS engine).

Regards,
Andrew

 

[zcacogp]

Andrew,

Thanks. I'll confess, when you originally floated the idea of a £20k 944 V8 conversion on here, I immediately thought "that's steep." However, looking at your list then it doesn't seem half as bad as I thought. Thanks for the clarification.

Your additional paragraph at the bottom makes it clear that this is a bit of a nominal thing, and many customers will want other bits, extra spec, more whizzy things and so on, and it would all be agreed upfront. I can see the logic (and appeal) of that.

I'll confess, I can feel the temptation. Being much more of a DIY chap I'd feel a little miffed that I didn't build it myself, but I can very much see the appeal, and it would make for a seriously capable car. If I had £20k burning a hole in my pocket, I'd probably be thinking quite hard about having a small discussion with Mrs zcacogp ...


Oli.

P.S. And, sorry, but I do have to add, "Interior stripped out during build enabling decontamination and sanitising of cockpit" .... eugh! [] I'm not going to sit quite as comfortably in my S2 tomorrow morning as I did this morning, am I! [:'(][:'(][:'(][:'(][:'(][:'(]

 

[rickware]

I want one, if I come into a spare £20k then I'll sell you my own car for £1500 quid and get this conversion as it sounds like a bargain! (Thinking about it I can probably can break all the existing engine, suspension and brake parts for about £6k so this could be an option!)

 

[AndrewS]

P.S. And, sorry, but I do have to add, "Interior stripped out during build enabling decontamination and sanitising of cockpit" .... eugh! [] I'm not going to sit quite as comfortably in my S2 tomorrow morning as I did this morning, am I! [:'(][:'(][:'(][:'(][:'(][:'(]

Remember Top Gear, when they purchased the SD1, Dolly and Princess and filled them with water? All the stuff that 'floated' to the surface? You'd be amazed what you find in older cars once you remove the seats and trim etc!

[]

Regards,
Andrew

 

[Diver944]

ORIGINAL: AndrewS

You'd be amazed what you find in older cars once you remove the seats and trim etc!

You'd best get Andye to do that job. I think he'd look quite fetching in marigolds and a pinny []

 

[Quarterflash]

Hi everyone
I had intended to undertake this project some years ago and so imported the kit from Renegade to enable the fitting of a Chevrolet LT1 engine. They explained that this engine was more likely to fit a RH drive car due to its symmetry than an LS type engine. However I never got any further and still have the kit. The LT1 does add some extra weight but I'm hoping to counteract this by lightening certain parts. Also the later engine has alloy heads which helps. I have now found an engine which has come from 95/96 corvette and includes all the ancillaries, wiring and injection management. The engine delivers 300 bhp in stock form so I won't have to modify much of the other parts as it will be going into an 89 turbo. 300 bhp is enough for me and it will produce a lovely burble. I'm going to complete the project over the winter with the help of my local Porsche independent. If you know of anyone interested in helping financially with this project I would be willing to take on advertising and promotions. I expect the cost of the engine and fitting to be around 5K.

 

[Copperman05]

Right then thats decided, lets all start saving...[]

Edd

 

[sawood12]

Hey, you may be able to buy power cheap, but reliable power comes at the cost of ££££. That is my point - reliable power doesn't come cheap and £20k for a turnkey package sounds like good value. At the end of the day for £20k what else are you going to buy that provides the same mix of performance, reliability, prestige as this package?? I guess the only unknown is the depreciation if you were to take the plunge. Also where would you begin in trying to find an insurer for such a hybrid car?

 

[edh]

I think the Promax deal looks like great VFM - the only problem is finding the 20k

For me the engine has always been the weak point of the car, and you'd surely be looking at somewhere approaching that cost to build / buy a car to that spec with a high powered Porsche 4-pot.