What to buy ?

[Guest]

So 2006 is the year that I finally buy myself a nice 944. But which one ?

I like the newer bumper variety, and the oval dash is a must. And I would cheerfully pay a bit extra for a turbo model or an S2, cos they go faster. But I don't want the extra work involved in looking after a car which has had the reliability designed out of it for the sake of a few more BHP. I am a lazy git without loadsa money. I will not even drive the thing very often, but I need it to work when the sun comes out. I also need to put children in the back of it occasionally - which I'm guessing rules out the cabrio (?)

So given a budget of £3K - £6K and no more than a grand a year to keep it on the road, what would you recommend ?

 

[sawood12]

I would guess that a good trouble-free turbo is a bit out of your budget. Mine was a shade under $7k 18 moths ago but i've spent more than £1k a year on it so far although alot of those jobs are one-off's or once every few year type jobs like timing belts, alternators and oil leaks - although I could have saved alot of cash on these jobs if I weren't so lazy and tackled some of them myself!! I'm sure you could probably get a good S2 for your budget but the advice on this forum previously about the 16v cars is to budget a good Grand and a half or so for the first year to make sure the belts, chains and cams are renewed unless the cars maintenance history can prove it's been done recently enough. I suppose the ultimate advice if you are not too fussy on the model/colour/spec is to buy on condition and not necessarily targetting a specific model. All the usual rules apply, look for maintenance and service history and evidence of a caring owner. Don't be too put off by milage if it's got the history to back it up.

Anyway, hope i've not put you off, you've already made your wisest decision - to go for a 944 in the first place. There are not any other cars of any other make and at any age at the price range that will put as big a smile on your face!! Happy hunting and good luck!!

 

[Fen]

Scott has it pretty well covered. If by later bumper you mean the Turbo/S2 bumper then you are looking for a Turbo or S2; it's an uneconomic retro-fit to a Lux and personally I'd want to know why it was done if you found one so converted. Drive both S2 and Turbo, you'll probably prefer the S2 and that's probably a good thing if you don't want to end us spending double the car's value modifying it. The sticky problem is if you want air-con and/or leather as that is rare in the S2 and finding one in that spec, and in good condition is going to take time. The cab does have rear seats and rear lap belts, but they are much narrower than the coupe seats. The luggage space is hugely reduced also as the boot is the same area but only around 8" deep rather than the area under the glass hatch.

 

[944turboS]

Just as Fen said. Tracey's ex-boss bought a Turbo Cab. & Adrian at Exeter OPC (01392) 822841 found him a brand new pair of booster seats for his children. Whatever you decide to buy Adrian is definatly the man to talk to about OE parts.

 

[Guest]

Thanks for the advice guys.

Fen, why would I have to spend twice the turbo car's value modifying it ? Is there something wrong with the factory version ?

The kids are old enough not to need booster seats, but lap belts are out of favour with the missus so that looks like a big no to the cabriolet then. Shame, I really fancied one.

Given the expense of keeping the S2 engine happy, should I be looking at an earlier 2.5 or 2.7 engine then (and put up with the old bumper) ?

Am I right in thinking the turbo is the 2.5 8v item and therefore less demanding of belts etc ?

I could be quite happy with a high mileage car, as I won't be doing all that many miles myself. Given that a well maintained one will do 250K miles, a 150K mile car would last me about 20 years []

 

[pae]

ORIGINAL: Mikey

Thanks for the advice guys.

Fen, why would I have to spend twice the turbo car's value modifying it ? Is there something wrong with the factory version ?

No, nothing wrong, I think it's called temptation []

Phil

 

[944turboS]

Heres a few to look at

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/list.asp?p=1&s=81

 

[PRJ]

I can vouch for that - only bought mine about 2 months ago for just under £6k and as it had the Level 1 ProMAX Boost Enhancer fitted, thought I'd be happy to leave it at that....

However, I'm not happy with the power delivery, so am about to spend circa £1,300+ on the Level 2 DPW and MAF. The fact that gives a few more horses too doesn't enter the equation obviously []

 

[mik_ok]

Depends what your priorities are really. I'm generalising and missing out some versions here, but :-

Looks
All look pretty dated now. S2 & Turbo marginally less so.

Handling
All have 50/50 weight distribution with the associated (much lauded) poise and balance. Later cars come on wider, lower profile rubber. Late turbo's have LSDs (the one additional option I wish our S2 had).

Brakes
Early cars have sliding single callipers without ABS. S2 has 4-pots all round with ABS. Turbo 250 has slightly bigger discs again (and callipers?)

Performance
Against current benchmarks, I'm not sure you could state early cars as much beyond "adequate".
I class the S2 as "brisk", with the standard 250 turbo a little more so (albeit with a less pleasant delivery).
Modded turbo's can be very fast. I've passengered in a circa 330bhp car that was rather rapid. People like Fen have another 70+ bhp on top of than that......

Interior
Leather seems to be more popular on later cars. This is a good thing. Some of the non-leather schemes are (IMHO) "truly honking".
Rear seats in the coupe are great for kids ~ ours (5 and 8) love it. If you are tall though, they won't have much leg room.
Truly astonishingly versatile load carrier for a sports car.

I wouldn't say S2 and Turbo have had reliability engineered out ~ just that they are a little more complex as they have "more bits". Neither engines are stressed (as supported by their propensity to cover BIG miles and still provide the numbers on a dynamometer).

The S2 cam chain is only an issue because Porsche obviously assumed it would need no attention throughout the life of the car. Whilst this has been proven incorrect, a (£300-ish)chain/tensioner change on a lower-milage car can be all that is required to give you another umpty-thousand miles of comfort, so this need not be a strong argument to discount one.

As Cilla and "Our Graham" would say...... the decision......is yours.

 

[sawood12]

With regards corrosion the galvanised bodies have proved to be pretty robust and rust shouldn't be a major problem although this means you have to be more vigilant than usual. Typical areas to look out for are the very bottom of the front wings right at the bottom especially on the passenger side, at the bottom of the interior boot wells behind the rear wheel arches and the sills (although you can only look out for really rotten sills as they rust from the inside out). Pay special attention to the mottled area along the bottom of the sill. This is a protective coating called Wruth and rust can bubble up from under it so look out for any signs of bubbling in this area. Also don't be put off by any faded colour on red cars. This is an oxidised layer that can be polished out.

Just another thing to look out for- if you look in the boot with the tailgate open and look behind the carpet just inside of the left rear light cluster there should be a sticky label attached to the inside of the rear panel. This is the factory label that details things like the chassis number and factory options. If this is missing ask why - it generally means that the car has had a rear shunt and this label has been removed during the replacement of the rear panel. Again this isn't necessarily a show stopper but you obviously need to make sure you satisfy yourself about the quality of the repair - in fact if the repair has been done by a reputable repair shop it will probably be better and straighter than new.

 

[cornishgrose]

Though technically, any Porsche 944 will be a good buy and great fun. My 85 Lux is fast enough for me, though try to get one that has not sat in a garage for too long. More problems than you think.

PS Take it out in the rain for more fun! (thats a fact)

 

[Guest]

ORIGINAL: Mikey
Fen, why would I have to spend twice the turbo car's value modifying it ? Is there something wrong with the factory version ?

You wouldn't HAVE to. You'd just WANT to.

The thing about the S2 (which is the car that I would buy if I was going to replace my S) is that there isn't a whole lot that you can do to it. Ok, you can improve the suspension, brakes etc., but essentially you're stuck (more or less) with the horsepower that Dr. Porsche gave you in the first place.

With the Turbo, on the other hand, the world is the molusc of your choice. You start by thinking "I'll wind the boost up a bit". Then you think that it would be a good idea to fit a turbocharger the size of Berkshire. Then you think that with all that air going in, you really need an intercooler the size of Kent. Now you're running at 76 million bar of boost, so you have to start strengthening the internals of the engine, so you buy some rods and pistons made of pure Unobtanium.

That's when it can start to get expensive. []

It's a boy thing. We're genetically programmed to try to get more power than is physically possible from an forced induction engine. Unfortunately not many women understand this perfectly natural need [&:]

 

[PRJ]

ORIGINAL: JamesH
It's a boy thing. We're genetically programmed to try to get more power than is physically possible from an forced induction engine. Unfortunately not many women understand this perfectly natural need [&:]

Spot on James - I've just pasted those pearls of wisdom in an e-mail to the missus to legitimise my imminent expenditure. Unfortunately, I have used the 'it's genetic' excuse before in other circumstances, so I don't expect a positive response []

 

[Guest]

OK, that's good info fellas.

I've just been to see a few cars at a couple of dealers. 'D' reg 944 turbo looked worn thin and ancient. The 968 was nice, but the inside of the 'F' reg 944 S2 was exactly the same and the outside looked nicer (I actually prefer the shape of the 944 to the 968 - weird). Both dealers said that changing the belts / timing chain was no big deal, but when doing the latter you might find that the chain tensioner hadn't done the business and that the sprockets were worn down resulting in a BIG BILL (£2K or so). So I guess that's what all the fuss is about.

So I reckon I'm looking for a 944 S2 with leather (and aircon if I can get it) and ideally less than 100K on the clock. I will avoid the turbo on the basis that my genes would force me to play with it, and my marriage would suffer as a result.

I reckon I can probably find one of these for £6K if I wait long enough - the stuff on the pistonheads site suggests that really good kit is still out there to be had (albeit nothing suitable right now).

A couple more stupid questions - How does the engine get on with unleaded vis-a-vis valve guides etc, and should I look for a catalysed car or try to avoid them. And am I asking for trouble if I leave it in the garage over the winter ?

Thanks again
Mike

 

[944turboS]

The S2 will accept unleaded (all Porsches after about 1980 will)
The catalyst is your choice, cars from 1993 MY need them for MOT but all the 944S2's are at best 1992 MY so you can remove it or keep it.

 

[Diver944]

Mikey, I've just heard of a really good 2.7 for sale by Lyndon Shipway a PCGB member and it should be well within your budget. I've seen his car before and it certainly looks very nice but obviously you need to check it out properly. He can't remember his PCGB password but you can email him at shipy at btopenworld dot com

If anyone wants a really superb S2 then I have also heard that our illustrious Register Secretary is going to be selling his soon, so contact Martyn Cockram through his profile. I think it's one of the best in the country and has a newly rebuilt engine and a fresh Southbound Leather interior.

I also know of a really good black Turbo being sold by a Titanic lister who maintains his cars fastidiously. He's just discovered it was Cat D registered back in the 90's so is having problems selling it. Send me a PM if you want his details.

The Turbo could be a good one for you Graeme when you change your S2 cab []

 

[Guest]

If you want aircon, check it works. fixing it can get pricey!

If you get the timing belt changed, make sure it is tensioned properly. i.e. look for a reciept from an OPC or a specialist, and give them a ring to make sure it was done properly. Changing the belt is easy (ish) but it is critical that it's tensioned right. None of this "that'll do" attitude there please! Also, if you get and S2, check if it's had a new timing chain (there is a chain to link the two camshafts inside the 16v head). That can last upto 100k miles, and is relatively expensive to change (and not "no big deal" as your dealer reckons), but even more pricey if it snaps or brakes teeth etc etc!. Do a search for "chain" on here and have a read. How to do it, and how not to...... (sorry Darren). Changing the tensioner pad is not a "great" effort (and is probably what your dealer means), but there is limited life in the chain and even the cam teeth too.

 

[sawood12]

A controvertial point maybe but 968's are just overpriced 944's. I actually prefer the looks of the 968 but due to their much fewer numbers are far more expensive (often over double) the cost of a 944 when effectively it's the same car. Yes you can get them with Variocam that gives you a few extra bhp over an S2 but is it worth all the extra cash? especially since for the same price you can get a good trubo, go to town with mods and trounce any 968 bar the very rare turbo ones (I think they only ever made four of them).

Leaving the car over winter is a bad idea in my opinion. You get a raft of notes against most models on this forum for a variety niggly problems around March time ish when people pull their previously perfect running cars out of winter storage. I've noticed with mine the more you drive it the better it is - some of those intermittent niggly problems, rattles and shakes can even dissapear altogether. I know for tax and insurance purposes you might want to park it but you could be storing up trouble for yourself.

 

[shipy]

ORIGINAL: Diver944

Mikey, I've just heard of a really good 2.7 for sale by Lyndon Shipway a PCGB member and it should be well within your budget. I've seen his car before and it certainly looks very nice but obviously you need to check it out properly. He can't remember his PCGB password but you can email him at shipy at btopenworld dot com

If anyone wants a really superb S2 then I have also heard that our illustrious Register Secretary is going to be selling his soon, so contact Martyn Cockram through his profile. I think it's one of the best in the country and has a newly rebuilt engine and a fresh Southbound Leather interior.

I also know of a really good black Turbo being sold by a Titanic lister who maintains his cars fastidiously. He's just discovered it was Cat D registered back in the 90's so is having problems selling it. Send me a PM if you want his details.

The Turbo could be a good one for you Graeme when you change your S2 cab []

Cheers for the nice words Paul
I've now managed to recover my password.

Mikey if your seriously looking my 2.7 will be available, i want a 911, its one of the best i've ever seen even if i do say so myself.
PM or email me for more details

 

[Guest]

Thanks for the offer shipy, but I'm set on the S2 now. I've just found a couple of decent looking 91/92 models with the wing spoiler and aircon on eBay - which I'm not going to buy either, but I will be watching the prices. Anyone else with a late model 944S2 with no dodginess is welcome to drop me a line though.

So it looks like I'll have to drive it a bit through the winter too - damn []