which 944 ?
- Thread starter dodgydal
- Start date
sawood12
New member
Well at least you are targetting a 944 in the first place so that is a big step in the right direction. However if you want a 2.7ltr turbo you'll have a job as all turbo's were 2.5ltr off the production line. If you come across a 2.7 it has been modified.
This is a debate that will rage on for eternity and it all depends upon what you want out of the car. If you want the most trouble free and cost effective 944 and wont be interested in modifying and satisfied in keeping the car standard then the lux will do the job just fine.
If you're after a bit more poke and don't mind the increase in expenditure then the S or S2 will fit the bill.
However if your stark raving bonkers and want a car that will drain your bank account faster than your wife or girlfriend (if you have one - or both[
]) then the turbo will do nicely. Oh, the upside is pretty good though!
The best thing to do would be to take an example of each for a spin and see what tickles your fancy.
This is a debate that will rage on for eternity and it all depends upon what you want out of the car. If you want the most trouble free and cost effective 944 and wont be interested in modifying and satisfied in keeping the car standard then the lux will do the job just fine.
If you're after a bit more poke and don't mind the increase in expenditure then the S or S2 will fit the bill.
However if your stark raving bonkers and want a car that will drain your bank account faster than your wife or girlfriend (if you have one - or both[
]) then the turbo will do nicely. Oh, the upside is pretty good though!The best thing to do would be to take an example of each for a spin and see what tickles your fancy.
Suffolk944
Moderator
Yes the Turbo started with 220bhp and then went to 250bhp, though the early models are a bit less laggy due to the smaller turbo, slightly lighter and apparently the engines are of a better build quality. Relatively small amounts of modding should see them heading towards the 300bhp mark with plenty more potentially but at an ever increasing cost.
Cabs are heavier than coupes due to strengthening after they chopped the roof off.
The S is often seen as a bit of an unloved ginger step child amongst 944's but there are several folk on here who have them and love them. From memory they have 190bhp though need quite a bit of revving to wring out that power.
Cabs are heavier than coupes due to strengthening after they chopped the roof off.
The S is often seen as a bit of an unloved ginger step child amongst 944's but there are several folk on here who have them and love them. From memory they have 190bhp though need quite a bit of revving to wring out that power.
sawood12
New member
I mentioned the S!! They are quite rare though as they were made in relatively few numbers so basically unless you really want an S you will find it easier to find a decent S2.
As Jon said the early turbos had less power due to a smaller turbo. It generates the same max boost pressure but cannot maintain it as far up the rev range which is where it looses out to the 250 models, so low down power is a bit more poky due to less lag. I've always maintained that you are far better buying turbo's on-condition rather than targetting a 220 vs 250 model - get the best condition example you can regardless of age, milage, power output and even colour. They can become real money-pits if you buy a pup. My car is a 220 example and with the boost pressure modestly turned up and the Promax l2 kit installed I got 275bhp at our last rolling road outing, so gaining an extra 30bhp is not really a problem.
peanut
Active member
an S2 looks identical to a turbo and has a much better power delivery for everyday driving.imo
Unless you are used to thrashing the nuts off a hot hatch everywhere you go you'll find it difficult to find anywhere you can use a turbo 44 effectively.
At everyday driving speeds they are a pain in the rear... sluggish and un- responsive. Try putting the pedal down in the wet on a turbo and when the turbo cuts in it will be off the road.
I'd put my chipped S2 up against a turbo anyday and I doubt you'd seperate them by much more than a second up to 100mph. My S2 would be quicker on a twisty country road.
I know which I'd prefer. Smooth instant power at any revs at any speed with no let up from 1000rpm to 6500rpm+
its not just about BHP but delivery. There is gearing and all sorts of other stuff to put into the equation.
Unless you are used to thrashing the nuts off a hot hatch everywhere you go you'll find it difficult to find anywhere you can use a turbo 44 effectively.
At everyday driving speeds they are a pain in the rear... sluggish and un- responsive. Try putting the pedal down in the wet on a turbo and when the turbo cuts in it will be off the road.
I'd put my chipped S2 up against a turbo anyday and I doubt you'd seperate them by much more than a second up to 100mph. My S2 would be quicker on a twisty country road.
I know which I'd prefer. Smooth instant power at any revs at any speed with no let up from 1000rpm to 6500rpm+
its not just about BHP but delivery. There is gearing and all sorts of other stuff to put into the equation.
sawood12
New member
I manage quite nicely [
] The power and torque of a turbocharged car comes in very very handly whilst overtaking - it's more like overtaking in a 4 wheeled motorbike, just pull out, straighten her up and floor it and you can just about make any gap. I now find myself routinely overtaking on roads where I would never have dreamed of overtaking before 944 turbo ownership. Just don't floor it as you pull out or you will have a 'moment'. The on-boost performance comes in very handy on dual carridgeway and motorway slip roads where you often have the option to floor it and join the carridgeway in front of the slow moving truck before you run out of slip road instead of braking to pull in behind. An S2 is a very capable car no doubt, especially on twisty roads, but it doesn't have the sheer accellarative capability of a turbo. There is no contest. That's the drug.
peanut
Active member
well I have to say thats exactly what I feel but as my present S2 is chipped I would say there is not a huge amount of difference in the actual speed and time of an overtaking manoever between a T and my S2 but for sheer adrenaline rush theres no contest the turbo wins hands down.
The S2 seems to do it without any perceived effort. Its kind of an anticlimax but that suits some folk I guess.
In an ideal world one would have one of each lol [
]
peanut
Active member
you sure ask some `difficult ' questions lol [
][][]I would guess its because it was introduced as a mid way point between the 2.5 Lux and the 3.0lt S2 but it just doesn't have sufficient differences or improvements to stand up by itself. Its rare but thats about all. The performance difference would appear to be minimal .It had no real benefits over the Lux . If it was too good it would detract from the turbo and S2 sales so I would say it was one of those marketing ploys that didn't really come to anything and the poor car dissappeared into history.
I didn't mean that to sound disparaging as I'm sure its a great car, as any 44 is .
Don't be too blinkered into just looking at bhp figures and statistics .Try an S2 and both the turbos if you get the chance. At the end of the day you could be sitting in a turbo and still get passed by numerous other modern`grunts ' if power is all you want get a smaller lighter car like a Lotus . If its a unique driving experience in a cheap `supercar' then you can't do much better than any 944 imho
pauljmcnulty
Active member
Simple. Potential for much bigger bills than the Lux for not much useable power increase, and hard to find a good one. Not much can be done to improve the performance. Most people, although not me, prefer the S2 bodywork.
It's easier to find a good S2, far more around. If a really special S is available, though, it should be cheap so worth considering.
To go back to your first question, the 944 model can be several different cars. From track-turbos through everyday driver S2s and old banger Luxes, cherished classics and summer cruisers. It's more important that you try some and decide what you want, and your budget to buy and run it!
xenon
New member
In essence it had the 'drawbacks' of the S2 (complex valvegear) but with none of the benefits - i.e. only a smal power increase and peak power arrived at way over 4000rpm making it a bit thrashy. The S2 was introduced after less than 1000 'S' models which was then dropped. The S2 answered the criticisms that the motoring press levelled at the S, i.e. more power, considerably more torque, and a much better power delivery.
EDIT - cross post with PJM who says much the same. I wasn't copying.... [
]
edh
New member
Blimey! - if they were that bad I'm amazed there are any 951's still left on the road and not all stuffed into hedges [
] - with the right tyres, grip is rarely a problem, you just have to think a little more about waiting to put the power down when the front wheels are straight. I know my turbo is so much faster than an S2 from 60-80-100 (that's real-world, not 0-100). There aren't many better m-way cars as you're right in the fattest part of the torque curve when cruising at 80 - with instant 1 bar boost at 3k rpm.
(Disclaimer - OK so mine is running slightly more boost & a LR boost enhancer - but that's only a few quids worth of mods that everyone should do to their turbos . I have driven a 250 turbo with a tired wastegate, and wasn't impressed, but drive a good one and you'll see the difference..... )
I'd put Diver944's Turbo up against any chipped S2 any day & I reckon it would be a fair few seconds quicker to 100, and even further ahead at 150
I doubt you can drive either an S2 or a Turbo safely on the road and approach the limits of grip or performance. Away from the road it all depends on the level of modifications - a lightweight S2 engined 944 like Peter's is a pretty quick machine, but even he is now bowing to the gods of forced induction [
]At everyday driving speeds.....I don't want to charge around all them time - driving off boost is just fine for me. The only time it is ever an issue is pulling away from a start, trying to nip into a gap on a roundabout. The boost takes a long time to build in 1st gear & sometimes feels like it's never going to arrive. (maybe that's less of a problem for 220's?)
- oh yes, my favourite road car of the lot is the 924S - light, great steering just a bit short of power for the track [
] All the 924/44/68 variants are great cars, they just have differing characteristics.
appletonn
New member
I'm sure Oli, the patron Saint of the S2 [], will be along in a bit to pour scorn on us poor Turbo types....[8|][][]
Oh Peanut, I'm not convinced that the S2 will pull hard from 1000rpm as you suggest - I know its a 3 litre lump, but those 16 valves would suggest to me that you'd also need some revs on the dial before it really starts to motor?
But, hey, both great cars with lovely balanced handling and a 'connected' feel to the road.
Still think Turbos are better though......!!![]
], will be along in a bit to pour scorn on us poor Turbo types....[8|][][]Oh Peanut, I'm not convinced that the S2 will pull hard from 1000rpm as you suggest - I know its a 3 litre lump, but those 16 valves would suggest to me that you'd also need some revs on the dial before it really starts to motor?
But, hey, both great cars with lovely balanced handling and a 'connected' feel to the road.
Still think Turbos are better though......!!![
]
944s2
Active member
Nick
My S2 could just about pull away from standtill in 3rd,tickover to redline in 3rd no problem
But as several folk have said its horses for courses, in the S2 I loved the "drivability" Was in a turbo admittedly only once for a test drive and the this aint very quick... oh my goodness acceleration was different
The lag issue can easily be fixed at a cost as numerous folk will attest
Bottom line is, depending on budget drive each model then decide which one is right for you
My S2 could just about pull away from standtill in 3rd,tickover to redline in 3rd no problem
But as several folk have said its horses for courses, in the S2 I loved the "drivability" Was in a turbo admittedly only once for a test drive and the this aint very quick... oh my goodness acceleration was different
The lag issue can easily be fixed at a cost as numerous folk will attest
Bottom line is, depending on budget drive each model then decide which one is right for you
xenon
New member
I won't wade into the S2 v turbo debate either (especially since Nick's turbo looks so fantastic) but the 3.0 will pull from extremely low revs. The 2.5 'S' engine (that definately doesn't) was one of the shortcomings Porsche were determined to address with the 3.0, and they did. It pulls from low revs but still has the "16v" peak as the engine opens up. Just like a turbo, in that respect.... [
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