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964 RS Touring

TISPKJ

TISPKJ

New member
Talk me through this one then, the latest copy of 911 and Porsche world has a big spread on RS's and there variants.

How can you value a 964 RS Touring which according to the magazine they only made 6 of at less than a sport / lightweight ?

Please tell me it's not because it has electric windows and air con ..............

Surely anything porsche only made 6 of has to be worth bundles !
 

ORIGINAL: tispkj

Talk me through this one then, the latest copy of 911 and Porsche world has a big spread on RS's and there variants.

How can you value a 964 RS Touring which according to the magazine they only made 6 of at less than a sport / lightweight ?

Please tell me it's not because it has electric windows and air con ..............

Surely anything porsche only made 6 of has to be worth bundles !
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Dear Paul, for years the motorsport industry has strived to perfect lightweight road/race cars which have always been more expensive by using materials and technology which would be prohibitive for a mass market. The genuine lightweights were 20K dearer nearly 40% in their day for what a normal Joe would consider to be less "What mate no electric windows or seats f*** that going buy a Turbo" yes the public could not conceive the idea, so Porsche brought out an Essex Boy RS with all the C2 bits to make him happy. They then followed that by the GT3.....
 
ORIGINAL: carreraboy


Dear Paul, for years the motorsport industry has strived to perfect lightweight road/race cars which have always been more expensive by using materials and technology which would be prohibitive for a mass market. The genuine lightweights were 20K dearer nearly 40% in their day for what a normal Joe would consider to be less "What mate no electric windows or seats f*** that going buy a Turbo" yes the public could not conceive the idea, so Porsche brought out an Essex Boy RS with all the C2 bits to make him happy. They then followed that by the GT3.....
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Superb......Desmond

It's a combination of desirability and rarity that controls values and the touring misses the RS concept.

 
I'm getting a bit fed up with disparaging remarks made about RS Tourings. My particular car , although it has electric windows and Turbo type seats, has had a RS lightweight flywheel fitted. It drives like an RS lightweight with the great advantage for someone living in Devon of being RHD and having the C2 rustproofing. It was also £10K cheaper than the equivalent lightweight and had a proven service history from a respected independent. One of the previous owners had treated it to a very expensive glass out respray so all in all it was a good buy.

As regards value, in common with most of you , I'd expect the car not to depreciate by very much if maintained in good condition. I'd be very surprised if it appreciated in value.
 
There may be a perception that 'lightweights' should be worth more than 'tourings' because this has been the case with the original 2.7RSs (of which there were 200 'M471 lwts', 1308 'M472 Tourings' plus 55 'M491 RSRs').

This may have influenced the large number of 964s that were originally ordered as 'lightweights', and account for the small number of 'tourings'.

Values are determined by supply and demand and the overall quality of any given example.
 
Touring only made RHD to placate UK, krauts did not want a touring as per my previous post.......the car was eseentially built in lightweight form to homologate the N/GT race series there is very little difference between the Lightweight/Clubsport/Cup Car they are essentialy the same car....the public were not GIVEN A CHOICE of touring other than later in the dimunative UK market probably led by Porsche UK and very poor sales figure for the RHD Lightweight which sold only 47 with a market projection by Porsche of 150 RHD units....THE ONLY CHOICE IN LHD WAS either Lightweight vast majority 1700 , Clubsport 150 although 300 chassis numbers, Cup Car about 200, then further homolgated 3.8 964RS also in lightweight and RSR.........

Don't get me wrong Touring great car and wears the RS badge better than the GT3 and RS America all marketing ploys to the market....
 
I believe that the real problem is that the desirability factor isn't there due to the car being so far away from the RS "concept". The Touring is more like a C2 with some RS bits rather than an RS with some C" bits!

And Paul, I don't mean to knock your car but having driven my car and a Touring back to back, I can assure you that just changing the fly wheel wouldn't make a Touring "drive like an RS".
 
ORIGINAL: SimonExtreme

I
And Paul, I don't mean to knock your car but having driven my car and a Touring back to back, I can assure you that just changing the fly wheel wouldn't make a Touring "drive like an RS".
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You haven't driven my car though...
 
ORIGINAL: carreraboy
....the public were not GIVEN A CHOICE of touring other than later in the dimunative UK market probably led by Porsche UK and very poor sales figure for the RHD Lightweight which sold only 47 with a market projection by Porsche of 150 RHD units....
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Des

Knowing how you like to get things right.............

The reason for the shortfall in RHD sales was nothing to do with the UK. Being in Australia has been rather interesting as I have learnt rather a lot. It seems that the Aussie market were due to take some RS RHD cars but for various local reasons, these were cancelled. S. Africa was also lined up for RHD cars for a race series which was cancelled due to politcal problems and also devaluation of the rand. Ashese cars were all cancelled, it wasn't worth another run of production for the few cars that were targetted to go to Japan. Add all those together and it accounts for the shortfalls in cars.

An interesting aside is that some RHD RS's made their way to New Zealand and 6 have since been imported into Australia. I have checked with the company who imported them and they were genuine lightweight RS's. Add those to the 47 brought to the UK and that leaves 3 that I cannot accounted for.

Now it gets strange! It seems there were already 2 cars in Australia and there are still some in NZ. This suggests that either some of the UK cars were exported at some point or that there were more than 56 RHD car built.
 
What a load of old tosh !!

Correct me if Im wrong but it is the same car, with adjustable seats, electric windows, and a more forgiving / longer lasting clutch.
Same "old" motor putting out just 260bhp (like a boxster), same old suspension, same old wheels, same old colours, same old same old !

My point is if there are only 6 examples of the model, and on that basis alone the car should be worth a lot more than a common old lightweight.

Porsche could build a garden shed with wheels on, only make 6 and everyone would want one !

Mind you what would they have called the 964 RS then [:D] [:D]
 
Paul you just keep answering your own question in a typical dare I say modern water cooled manner with absolutely NO UNDERSTANDING of the Marque and it's ancestory....stick to what you know and be happy.......yes rare does create a niche market BUT WHY DID THEY BUILD ONLY 6.....BECAUSE NO ONE WANTED THEM.....HELLO ANYONE IN!!!!!!
Get back in your tricked up 996 stick on the aircon turn up the MP3 and chill out honey....go and find a BMW M3 to burn off........
 
Simon that might be so, but read WHAT I WRITE....they did NOT SELL 150 designated for the UK looks like ALL RHD MARKETS FLOPPED......you are underwriting my response.....ALSO ASK WHY NO RHD CLUBSPORTS OR CUP CARS...........I would have thought the S.Africa race series would have been LHD Cup Cars!..........Oh and Japan prefer LHD as we do here...
 
ORIGINAL: carreraboy

Get back in your tricked up 996 stick on the aircon turn up the MP3 and chill out honey....go and find a BMW M3 to burn off........
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you gotta laugh.......he's back[:D]
 
ORIGINAL: jason

ORIGINAL: carreraboy

Get back in your tricked up 996 stick on the aircon turn up the MP3 and chill out honey....go and find a BMW M3 to burn off........
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you gotta laugh.......he's back[:D]
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Sorry Paul, but I have to say that's one of Des' better efforts [:D]
 
[:D]
ORIGINAL: tispkj

What a load of old tosh !!

Correct me if Im wrong but it is the same car, with adjustable seats, electric windows, and a more forgiving / longer lasting clutch.
Same "old" motor putting out just 260bhp (like a boxster), same old suspension, same old wheels, same old colours, same old same old !
Click to expand...
You do need correcting but as all my reference books are in the UK and I don't want to make a mistake..............

However, the key point is weight. The Touring is significantly heavier which changes the whole feel. But then again, how can you expect somebody who drives an over weight tub of lard to understand the importance of weight in such matters[;)]
 
Des, I fully understand the concept of lightweight race materials and porsche charging less for more, ie 964 C2 and 964 RS, however this is not the case with the RS touring is it ?
It has the same engine (ok a different clutch / flywheel), same suspension, brakes, gearbox, the whole shooting match, but with different seats, underseal, and a bit of soundproofing.

You still havent answered my question, why are they so undervalued for a car they only built 6 of ? .......... your answer was no one wants them.

Unless Im missing something its like comparing the GT3 clubsport and comfort models, then saying the comfort is no good.

I assume you think the clubsport GT3 is rubbish cos they only made 15 RHD of them, must be because no one wants them eh ?

Also since when did we prefer LHD , we have been here before and agreed the only reason you dont have RHD is because the LHD cars were good value at 20k and the RHD cars were a lot more money and out of a lot of peoples price range.

I have got air con, and some nice music, however living in Kent not Essex there are not to many M3's to burn off .........

Either way the same driver in a GT3 will always put in quicker lap times the car is just so much better, still if your happy with just 260 bhp so be it, as they say you can lead a horse to water but you cant make him drink it !!! [:D]

Anyway the touring sounds to cheap to me [:D]
 
Hi Paul

I think the answer to your question really is that obvious - the reason that Tourings are cheaper (youcall them "undervalued") is that they are not as popular. Majority of people would rather the Lightweight for what ever reason.

The weight issue is significant whether most drivers are able to take advantage or not - if Porsche offered a GT3 that was actually lighter than the std version, do you think it might be popular? Only Porsche can get away with building a lightweight sports version that is actually heavier than the std car.

While I agree that a GT3 would be quicker than a 964 RS in the same hands for most people it is because it is easier to drive as much as anything else, having driven both I don't think it is more fun. And your point about the bhp ............. I am happy with 260bhp, its what you do with it that matters [;)]. I don't need to have 400bhp to know mine is "more than a handful" [:D]

Regards
 
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