981 Boxster & 987 Spyder comparision.

[fbr]

Notwithstanding the need to sell magazines, this from Car & Track cheered me up...

"So how is it possible that, with all of this interference by technology, the (981) Boxster and Cayman remain authentic feeling? Don't know. But when you turn the satin-aluminum-trimmed SportDesign steering wheel, it's like turning a high-fidelity rheostat of"‰joy. With this level of feel, accuracy, and composure, the steering system could be boosted by flaming cow patties and we'd still park a Boxster or Cayman in our garage."

Whilst maybe not employing this level of hyperbole and after the lots of miles under all sorts of demanding conditions, I can't find any fault with the degree of precision or level of feedback from the 981's power assisted steering.

My take on the handling of the 981, albeit less gushing, concurs with that of Palevesky. Whilst I can't comment on the sports suspension, since mine is fitted with PASM, it does have PTV/LSD. For most of the time the chassis is set to "˜sport', and for normal driving (small towns, no M-ways and very rare dual roads) this setting is indistinguishable from "˜normal'. Under more demanding conditions of the ups, downs and rounds, the chassis "˜sport' setting comes into its own. The car is stable, predicable and very sure footed. The ride is in no way harsh even on broken surfaces. It's very difficult to provoke understeer and the car does appear to pivot around you, especially on sharply falling turns. I've never noticed any loss of traction even for steeply climbing elbows in second gear (e.g. either ascent from Brig'o Broon on the A939). Traction in snow and ice is excellent. I'm minded of a recent run down the single track Glen Muick road with 2-6" of virgin snow. This makes you very appreciative of feedback from chassis & steering, especially when the temperature is hovering about zero.

Vociferous discussion about the value of artificial driving aids or "electronically" controlled components I don't find helpful. Do I find it gets in the way of my ability to drive a 981? Do I think it reduces my skillset? Does it make it go faster or slower? To be honest I don't notice. I'm too busy enjoying the car.

Would I recommend a 981? Wholeheartedly. Is it better than a Spyder? I don't care.

FBR

 

[MrDemon]

I guess people need to drive them back to back and also go and drive a GT3 and then buy what feels right/ ok to them.

Steering is still night and day better on a 987.2 car over the 981.

to state this
"I can't find any fault with the degree of precision or level of feedback from the 981's power assisted steering. "

the guys either telling pork pies or has not driven a GT3 or eve na Cayman R for that matter.

but if he is happy with what he owns than that's great

 

[fbr]

ORIGINAL: MrDemon

to state this
"I can't find any fault with the degree of precision or level of feedback from the 981's power assisted steering. "

the guys either telling pork pies or has not driven a GT3 or eve na Cayman R for that matter.

I don't recall making any claims with regard to which or any cars that I have driven. But I'm not sure that I lied about the steering.

Any more naked abuse or is that the best you can offer in the way of constructive criticism?

FBR

 

[MrDemon]

Car & Track

I thought the whole post was a quote from Car & Track lol

hence the response I made.

as for "constructive criticism" I don't have any, the 981 steering is not as feel some as my last 4 Porsche, that's just a "fact"

here is a vid I did of one of the Boxsters I had on loan, the new Cayman is much much better but still not great

yes it weights up later and you can place the car where you want, but the dead spot and feel in the wet is crap vs the other 4 Porsche I have ran.

http://youtu.be/JXlgfbgdoQ4

so sorry about the comment as I thought it was all from Car and Track.

And as long as you love your steering than I am very happy for you,

I hate it with a passion enough not to buy one.

 

[fbr]

as for "constructive criticism" I don't have any, the 981 steering is not as feel some as my last 4 Porsche, that's just a "fact"

Maybe I can help. I can see your case for electric steering, but I think you're missing an opportunity to advance your arguments. If you come to terms with the novel idea that both electric and hydraulic power assisted steering are similar types of artificial driving aid then I think we can agree on a no-score draw. The argument I favour is that 981 drivers are only able to steer their cars with any degree of precision because they have been forced to develop an unfair skill-set in order to overcome the deficiencies of the electric assist. Their surprising capacity to achieve this additional skill-set is only made possible by the choice of the PDK gearbox, the favourite artificial driving aid of the inexperienced Porsche driver.

You're about as good on facts as you are at apologies.

FBR

 

[MrDemon]

I don't get it !

did you watch my vid ?

the only good thing about this new steering is you can sneeze with both hands on the wheel and how ever much you move the car will keep going in a straight line.

I say this because a friend of mines wife sneezed and put the car in a ditch, if she were in a 981 she would have been fine ;-)

 

[fbr]

ORIGINAL: MrDemon
I say this because a friend of mines wife sneezed and put the car in a ditch, if she were in a 981 she would have been fine ;-)

That's got to be ace factoid of the day. But it does make it a plus for hay fever sufferers!

You weren't frightened by a 981 at an early age by any chance?


FBR

 

[gouldian]

Mr. D. - I hope you told the dealer that the steering had become somewhat disconected when you returned the car, as clearly there was a mechanical problem. You can't do that in mine or any others I've driven withour serious erratic movements, and if that vid. of one car is your reason for rubbishing electric steering on the 981 it's hardly a sound argument. I do however accept that one bad experience can colour ones judgement!

 

[flat6]

Finally got chance to finish reading the article. So true was the opening section to my own experiences with the Spyder that it gave credibility to the 981 section which I found informative and enticing. Good to hear that X73 doesn't make the ride too harsh or brittle. Maybe more 981 buyers should go for it. Trouble is, if they don't have an opportunity to try before they buy, I can understand why they wouldn't 'risk' it. The stiffness of the 981 chassis, it's grip and turning capability, the accuracy and poise when at the limit; Porsche is missing a trick here. The 981 Cayman would clearly make the ideal GT race car platform. About a year or 2 ago in the Inside Line section or Porsche Post it said that Porsche race car teams were crying out for development that would keep up with the competition. Rather than moving the engine slightly forward on the 991 (the rear engined physics getting close to their amazing limits), the mid-engine physics has so much more unrestricted scope to go forwards. They may have to wait for the 960/961 though.

As for the steering, my thoughts when I reviewed a 981:

I do also wonder if the steering set-up on the 981 Cayman is different to the 981 Boxster as this car felt less "˜floaty' than the Boxster I drove. Maybe the difference is due to something else but it definitely felt different to me. To get a feel for the speed of steering rack around the centre, I did try rocking the steering wheel back and forth around the centre position. The car didn't change direction but beyond a certain shallow angle you can feel the car rocking. I tried this in the Spyder on the way there and the same thing happened, albeit over a smaller angle of rotation of the wheel. The Spyder would rock more for the same steering wheel rotation as in the 981. However, with both cars, no matter how small the angle of steering input, the car went where it was told immediately if that angle was held. If you rock back and forth quick enough the input has been cancelled out before the car has overcome inertia to turn, because a turn in the opposite direction has been applied. I.e. the wheels do change direction and the car with it but you can cancel it out before the inertia is overcome. I think the Spyder has a quicker steering set-up than this standard car. The steering on a standard car is probably a more relaxed set-up so that there's less work to keep the car going straight. With the Spyder's set-up there is less work to make the car change direction quickly and precisely but if you sneeze, you will change lanes. It's a trade off in the set-up the car is intended to have for it's intended purpose and experience. I do wonder that if Porsche had been able to conceal that the power steering has been changed from hydraulic to electric, whether the journalists would have made such a big issue about any lack of feel. It may lack some feel but it is very accurate.

Andy Fagan's view on his new Cayman R after upgrading from his 987 Boxster:

ORIGINAL: Andy Fagan

I find you need to be far more precise with *ALL* the controls when pushing it as it reacts a lot sharper to all input.

 

[vitesse]

Andy Fagan's view on his new Cayman R after upgrading from his 987 Boxster:

ORIGINAL: Andy Fagan

I find you need to be far more precise with *ALL* the controls when pushing it as it reacts a lot sharper to all input.

[/quote]

I can confirm that-my neck is still giving me messages from those wonderful pax laps with Andy round Oulton Park last Nov[]

 

[fbr]

Should anyone be remotely interested there's a good account of a track experience in a 981 Cayman S with the X73 suspension on Planet 9 -

981 Cayman S at POC event.

- it even has moving pictures!

FBR

 

[flat6]

Would be good if they use the GTS to encourage the X73 option i.e. put it as standard on the GTS and then people can option it off if they daren't go for it.

Who knows what the GTS will be. Hopefully more than an options bundle.

The recurring theme seems to be that the 981 is very predictable at the limit, as shown by the reviews below that you have probably seen. I do think the newer cars have to be driven faster to come alive, such is the advancement in chassis dynamics. Below excessive speeds the comfort dynamics are more prevalent. That's why i'd like to see more power in the 981, to allow you to work the well accomplished chassis more at lower speeds and enhance the thrill.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wT2wkhg6LTQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Wk28sxMcyc&feature=youtube_gdata_player

 

[rob.kellock]

All the stories so far say 981 GTS will have PASM as standard...

 

[flat6]

[&o]

 

[flat6]

Is 981 PASM different to 987 PASM where sport mode was typically too stiffly damped for the road and for some people rarely got used? I found that 987 PASM sport mode on my Cayman was less pliant that the Spyder/R passive dampers and sent the chassis into oscillations on every road imperfection, which meant it never settled. I therefore rarely ever could use it except on PCGB track days.

How does the 981 PASM compare?

If the GTS has PASM, what is rumoured to be their uniqueness over an S?

 

[daro911]

ORIGINAL: flat6

Is 981 PASM different to 987 PASM where sport mode was typically too stiffly damped for the road and for some people rarely got used? I found that 987 PASM sport mode on my Cayman was less pliant that the Spyder/R passive dampers and sent the chassis into oscillations on every road imperfection, which meant it never settled. I therefore rarely ever could use it except on PCGB track days.

How does the 981 PASM compare?

If the GTS has PASM, what is rumoured to be their uniqueness over an S?

981 PASM more user friendly than ever just like 981 PDK updated from Gen2 spec for quicker changes, stop start, and off throttle coasting mode

The GTS advantages over an "S" appear to be 15 bhp more power the rest is add ons included in the new bargain price i.e. PSE: 20" Alloys: PASM: for full spec we will have to wait until March when I guess the order books will be officially opened for May delivery cars[8D]

 

[daro911]

[][][][][][][]

 

[spyderman]

ORIGINAL: flat6
Is 981 PASM different to 987 PASM where sport mode was typically too stiffly damped for the road and for some people rarely got used? I found that 987 PASM sport mode on my Cayman was less pliant that the Spyder/R passive dampers and sent the chassis into oscillations on every road imperfection, which meant it never settled. I therefore rarely ever could use it except on PCGB track days.

How does the 981 PASM compare?

I was stunned by the ride on the 981 S I had for a day from OPC Silverstone. Threw it around the back roads around Silverstone and Stowe and found I could even make use of the Sport setting on the road - which I certainly was never tempted to do on the 987s I borrowed! Whether they have used different dampers, a different programme, or its all down to the new chassis I have no idea - but the 981 really moved the game on for me. Shame I can't afford one!

Chris.

 

[flat6]

Good to hear PASM is sorted too.

In those bitterly cold looking weather conditions FBR, you might actually get more grip with the suspension set softer, allowing the tyres to bite a bit more independently from the body's movement fighting against them. But maybe the new PASM has that covered too[]

 

[daro911]

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/beijing-motor-show/new-porsche-boxster-gts-spied-undisguised

Looking good[]

A spy shot of an almost undisguised Porsche Boxster GTS has appeared online, months ahead of its official debut at the Beijing motor show in April.

The picture, which was first published on automotive website Worldcarfans, follows recent winter testing images of the car and its Cayman sister.

This latest image shows what appears to be a near-finished version of the GTS, complete with the 'correct' 20-inch wheels from the 911 Carrera S and new front-end styling.

GTS versions of both the Porsche Cayman and Boxster, which will get performance upgrades in addition to cosmetic ones, are set to go on sale in April following their Beijing motor show debuts. Details of the cars were leaked last year from an American dealer conference.

Both new versions get a 15bhp power increase over the standard 3.4-litre S variant, meaning the Boxster GTS will have 326bhp on offer, while the Cayman GTS gets 335bhp.

The cars gain distinctive new bumper designs at the front and rear, a new sports exhaust, and the aforementioned 20-inch wheels borrowed from the 911 Carrera S. The Cayman GTS also gets new LED daytime running lights.

A manual gearbox will come as standard, but a PDK transmission will be available as an option. Reports suggest that Porsche's Active Suspension Management system will be standard.

In the UK, the GTS is expected to command a price increase of around £4000 over the S version. That means the Boxster GTS should start from around £50,000 and the Cayman GTS from close to £53,000.

Previous spy shots revealed the cars undergoing final testing in winter conditions, confirming that development work on the new Porsche Cayman and Boxster GTS models was close to completion.