Advice on buying a 944 ?

[declangrady]

Thanks for the info folks.
For importing to Ireland, the "i am exporting" section of the v5 is filled in & its sent to dvla, with new owners address outside uk. They then stamp it as being "exported" and post it to new owner. New onwer brings this to Irish revenue folks, and a new reg is given. The original v5 is returned to the dvla in swansea directly by the revenue folks.
(I just did this procedure recently !)

You do get a copy of the v5 for records, and I guess that becomes part of the history of the car.
I don't see a big market in Ireland for Porsche's of any type, so it would probably end up being sold back into UK again, so the history then does become an issue I assume.
- Mabye it loses it, and simply gets assigned a new reg as being imported ? I dunno.

(Of course, you could live with a cat C at the right price [] nudge-nudge)

I've asked about the 924S on the 924 forum as suggested.

Cheers,
Declan


p.s. Exchange & mart have a good few 944s .. I was surprised !

 

[Fen]

I didn't even know Exchange & Mart were still in business. I've seen some supposedly good cars with shocking repairs - a 944 Turbo S with 924 Le Mans suspension on the front cobbled on with bits of '86 Turbo and Lux. I'd hate to think what kind of nightmare a Cat C repair would be if done on a shoestring, so probably no, it couldn't be cheap enough.

 

[declangrady]

ORIGINAL: Fen

I didn't even know Exchange & Mart were still in business. I've seen some supposedly good cars with shocking repairs - a 944 Turbo S with 924 Le Mans suspension on the front cobbled on with bits of '86 Turbo and Lux. I'd hate to think what kind of nightmare a Cat C repair would be if done on a shoestring, so probably no, it couldn't be cheap enough.

[X(]
Ouch. That does sound nasty.
I guess you can't be too careful.

 

[sawood12]

Yeah you have to be really carefull. I was looking at a Cat C write off prior to spotting my car. I actually saw it the day after the garage had picked it up so could view all the damage prior to repair and had satisfied myself that the structural elements were untouched (only 2 new wings, bonnet, front end - I would have got it checked by a proper engineer though) so I would have taken the punt if the HPI check hadn't showed that it had been clocked and had covered at least 30k more miles than was on the clock. Shame, it was nice - A metallic blue 250bhp with linen leather interior, but now i've had Guards Red i'll never look back again!

 

[declangrady]

OK, now I've read so much about 924, 924S, 944, 944S, 944S2 ... I don't know what I should be looking at ! [] Isn't the internet a wonderful thing !

A big factor for me is that the vrt (duty) on a 944 is the same from 1983 up to 1988.
i.e. It is not related to the price of the car, they have a fixed "Open Market Selling Price" for 83 to 88. This makes it more tempting to go for the later cars, but then the cost price becomes much higher, and pushes it out of my price range !

Actually, the vrt on a '90 S2 is not a lot higher than on an '83 Lux !

Aaargh !

I need a nudge in the right direction here... what can I realistically get for 3K that won't need much immediate work doing to it, and isn't a class D or C job.

Cheers,
Declan

 

[944turboS]

I had a 924S that was on a 1987 E plate with the 160bhp engine, factory de-cat & split rear seat option.

 

[Fen]

Anything that is not an S2 or a Turbo then I would say. I would probably advise against the 944S because you have the possibility of enough repairs in the valvegear to almost blow your budget, they will be the priciest cars anyway and they aren't a lot better than the 8V ones. Barring that I personally would go for an oval dash car as it is much more modern feeling, so that's a 944 from 85.5 on. Virtually any usable 8V n/a 944 should be within budget if realistically priced IMO (usable as opposed to concourse garage queen) because usable S2s are hovering around the late £4k's nowadays and there has to be downward pressure from them. A usable car I would consider to have some rough edges but nothing major wrong with it so you would not be scared to use it either through fear of it breaking down or being too nice to risk getting damaged. An upside is that they basically stopped making anything but the ones you don't have budget for in '88.

 

[declangrady]

Thanks guys.

OK, so its down to either a late 924S (pref. with the 160 bhp engine)
or
An oval-dash 944 (85.5 to 88)
- Are these in both 150 and 160hp versions (like the 924S) too, or am I way off track ?

(Guess I'll owe you a pint or three after all this advice Fen [] )

Cheers,
Declan

 

[Keggers]

Declan, for reference purposes, when I bought my '89 S2 in , they told me that the VRT would be €2,100 (this was the top end of a scale based on condition - I think that it went as low as about €1,200 if it was deemed to be in very poor condition). They ended up exempting me on transfer of residence grounds though thankfully.

By the way, saw the pics of your 911 on your site. Looks superb. Putting ideas into my head...

 

[Fen]

All 944's were 160bhp (for the 2.5's). The 924S was hobbled to stop it from overshadowing its big brother. Porsche do that all the time; tragically the Cayman will probably never be allowed to reach its potential so long as the "911" is still made and it's pretty widely accepted the same went for the 944 Turbo and quite likely the reason for the 968 never having a production turbo version.

 

[declangrady]

Greg,
I got a good few vrt "estimates" for 944s and a 924S.
They "suggested" that unless it was concours, you should get away with teh "average" condition valuation, and the estimates were around 1275 for the 83-88's up to 1500 for a '90 S2

Yep, the 911 is fantastic, and it goes as well as it looks !

Cheers,
Declan

 

[944turboS]

Declan,
Take a look here

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1986-PORSCHE-924_W0QQitemZ4578672163QQcategoryZ9860QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Usual disclaimer, no connection with seller etc.etc.

 

[Diver944]

Declan,

Take a look at Phils 924s here:

http://www.porscheclubgbforum.com/tm.asp?m=142857&mpage=1&key=&#146401

I saw it at the Hasting - Brighton run and it does look very nice. Loads more info about it if you follow the onward links in that thread.

 

[declangrady]

ORIGINAL: Diver944
Declan,
Take a look at Phils 924s here:
http://www.porscheclubgbforum.com/tm.asp?m=142857&mpage=1&key=&#146401
I saw it at the Hasting - Brighton run and it does look very nice. Loads more info about it if you follow the onward links in that thread.

Thanks Paul,
I read through most of that info on Phils car earlier today. It does look like a pretty good 924S.
I'm still undecided as to what I should be looking at though. 924 or 944

Keep those suggestions coming folks. []

Cheers,
Declan

 

[declangrady]

Update:
Still no move on selling my other car, but am still looking for a 944 - I've 99.9% decided on a 944, not a 924S.
(There is a danger I'll have to abandon my search due to other "circumstances", but for the moment I'm still looking !)

I'm looking for a few more pointers ...
1. What value would you put on an '82 lux with "no history at all", that looks good and sounds good ?
.. Or should that question be "Would you put ANY value on ...."

2. What exactly is expensive on the 16V ? Is it normal to have the cams replaced, or would this indicate a previous problem being corrected ? -If it is normal, how often does it need cams, 'cos its mad expensive !


Thanks in advance
Declan

 

[Diver944]

1. Have you seen many yet to compare it with. Looks good and sounds good may actually be pretty bad compared to others if you have not seen many. I think you'll be in the £2k area if teh body appears sound. With no history at all you'll have to budget for an immediate belt change and service if you buy it, and it would be beneficial to have it inspected by someone who knows 944s (NOT the AA or RAC). Peter Morgan provides a very comprehensive service for a few hundred of our lovely Sterling pounds.

2. The only thing to be aware of with the 16v models over and above an 8v is the chain that links the two camshafts. This has never been part of an official service schedule and there are still people out there who don't know that it really should be inspected and replaced along with the tensioner slipper every 50k miles (circa £200).

If not checked the slipper can wear, the chain can stretch and ultimately the sprockets on the camshafts can round off or snap. If you find a car with a history of these being replaced then this is what has happened. It is not uncommon, so shouldn't put you off, but if you buy a 16v and do not know for definite when the CHAIN and SLIPPER were replaced you MUST do it immediately to sleep soundly at night []

 

[Fen]

I'd broadly concur with Paul but I think he's too generous. £1,500 tops for an unknown quantity - £2,500 is top whack in my opinion for ANY 1983 944 and it wouldn't take much to go wrong to bite you to the tune of £1,000. Also you will presumably want to sell it on some day (very likely because you want an S2 or Turbo from most experiences on here) and no history could make it a long process to get rid. On the cams Paul neglected to mention the case-hardening. My cab needed cams not because the slipper was worn nor the chain stretched but because the case hardening was failing which can lead to severed teeth. In terms of how long should they last it would appear 12-18+ years based on the age of cars I know having had them replaced and the maximum age of many that have not (assuming the cams available today are the same quality as the OE ones). It does not appear to be related to mileage. Some cars that have not had them will have teeth in the sump despite appearing to run fine (been there, done that also []) and I would definitely be happier buying a car that has had cams than one that has not - not having had them means they may not have been checked rather than they were checked and not required. At the very least you want to see someone who knows what they are doing has been in there for a look periodically and with no mention of cam gear in the history at all I'd look to keep £1,500 back in case. I did that with my cab and it cost exactly that to replace them using my very reasonable indy. I think others on here could tell of invoices of well over £2k for cam replacement. Not worth the gamble, although you could always pay to have one checked before you buy and negotiate on repair costs if it's found wanting.

 

[carlmthompson]

ORIGINAL: Fen

tragically the Cayman will probably never be allowed to reach its potential so long as the "911" is still made

I read recently that a Cayman Turbo was seen testing at the Nurburgring.

 

[Fen]

Yeah, I've heard it mentioned since I wrote that. I'm pretty sure there was to be only an S model when it was announced though and the Turbo could be a motorsport car rather than production a la 968 Turbos. From what I have seen so far I really like the Cayman and it's this first time I have been able to say that since before the Boxster production car was launched and it was a crashing disappointment after the concept that was supposed to be very close to the production car (remember the the little propellers in the air vents etc. that made the interior different from an Audi?). If there is to be a Turbo then they have my attention because there might actually have been a Porsche made since 1995 that I aspire to own.

 

[carlmthompson]

Agree completely - Cayman is the first Porsche in a long time that I've actually thought about how long it will take for them to become cheap enough to buy (apart from selling a kidney!)