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Am I expecting too much..??

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I'm looking to buy an SC or Carrera as per my earlier posts( which I'm sure your all tired of at the mo!! ). Most of the ones I've shortlisted and rang up about all seem to have issues with bubbling or rust.!!! No matter how lyrically waxed about by the owners, I feel that I don't want to entertain them, not even for a quick look. Most of the advice I've been generously given by your good selves, is to avoid such corrosion issues as it is the cars biggest enemy. I am starting to wonder wether my max budget (12k) is not up to the job. Can I be cheeky and ask what kind of money has been paid for rust free examples recently.? The other option is to get a mechanically and chassis (underneath) sound example with some surface issues and get a high quality repair and spray job.. Next question, how much and where from.? Are they done in base coat and laquer?? Would £2k cover the job.?? Does anybody have any first hand experience of this.?

Thanks alot from a slightly dis-heartened Bronco.
 
My advice is keep looking, (I'm talking about SCs only not 3.2s). Private owners are not going to asking more than 12k for even an immaculate car because they won't get it. You might see a pristine example from a dealer for more but haggling should get you a result. SCs left the factory in an unlaquered state. If I was having a full respray done now - having had both laquered and paint only finishes I would choose unlaquered as you can polish the paint but not the laquer. It requires more work to keep looking good and is not as hardwearing but ultimately I like the finish better. You're looking at 3-4k up for glass out resprays, plus you will need to replace trim otherwise it will look crap, do a search on resprays there is plenty of info here, choose your bodyshop carefully! My recommendation is 911 bodyshop in Wembley.
 
I bought this 82SC a few months ago for £9,500, it was off a friend who wanted a quick sale but is comletely rust free.

Porkerdean7noplate.jpg
 
Bronco

I'm not sure I agree with the comments above. Whilst I wouldn't sell my car I am sure there are others who would sell but only if the price was right and I'm not sure that £12K cuts it for a Carrera, particularly a G50 if that's what you're after. Most of the cars I see on my travels are a big disappointment if you have high standards and a full respray is both very expensive and very time consuming. If you wait long enough something will come along but I'm afraid you probably need more patience or that ever elusive substitute for patience, more money!

Roy

8EF3807559ED435999128253E7F488F3.jpg
 
Hi - are you talking about 3.2's or SC's?

I don't think an SC will get more than 12K, but a 3.2, especially with a G50 certainly will

Pete
 
How about this one?

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/51767.htm

It's nothing to do with me, and a shame that there's no history with it but it looks like a nice car. At this age history becomes less important and condition is paramount. Could be worth having a look at and then getting it checked over by a specialist if it feels good.
 
Just paid 14500 for a mint (and i mean mint) 88 3.2 with 43k miles. LHD mind but you do get more for your money. I used to own an SC which i sold to my pal Whitecameleon. Both our cars are ex Swiss and i must say they know how to look after a car. Maybe worth looking on a few Swiss sites. Could be worth a jaunt over there to see some thats what i was planning to do before i found mine. Try www.autotrader.ch . Is all in swiss but you can navigate your way around easily enough and use google to work out the currency exchange. I know how you feel went through the same thing when looking for my first SC.
 
I paid a total of £14k for mine (it's an 87/G50 model) which included its first new clutch, a few jobs sorted out, new oil pipes etc. Fairly low mileage (59K), 2 owners, and almost immaculate condition inside and out. FPSH from new from the same OPC and all documentation. Seemed reasonable value compared with others around, and was essentially a private buy with a small fee for an intermediary. So far so good and ready now with the Porter Cable for some proper bodywork detailing. I had it checked over by an OPC before buying, but also moved quite quickly since there seemed to be others sniffing around

I hope that is useful.
 
 My advice is keep looking, (I'm talking about SCs only not 3.2s). I was clearly referring to SCs, I know a good 3.2 can fetch quite a bit more.
 
ORIGINAL: whitechameleon

I bought this 82SC a few months ago for £9,500, it was off a friend who wanted a quick sale but is comletely rust free.

Porkerdean7noplate.jpg

Yeah, but its brown [:D][:D][:D][:D]

No you are not expecting too much. You shouldn't have to respray but you might get a bubble or two of rust from time to time. Even a well looked after car may get rust round the windscreen after a replacement screen is fitted, for example. This shouldn't be the case but it does happen.

I second the recommendation for Cris at 911 Bodyshop. Coincidentally, right next to JAZ, who can look after all your mechanical needs. No affiliation, just a satisfied customer.
 
Thats valuable info for owners a little closer to the big smoke than myself in Cumbria...The Black car in Pistonheads looks like a real cracker, i will follow it up. Where else should I be looking for ad's ( other than the Autotrader, ebay, Virgin911,Pistonheads) ????

ps thanks for all the advice so far..
 
Hi,

IMO there is no such thing as a rust free car. No surface bubbling does not denote a rust free car. The hidden rust is probably of more concern than the visible.

Much has been posted on this Forum on the issues that surround refinishing, (See "Bare metal refinishing" and others) but a high quality piece of work is expensive and a lesser one probably not worth having. If you allow say £3500 for a glass out, doors and wings off, refinishing, that should be enough. If there is substantail rot to be dealt with then this figure will increase quickly. Say an overall figure circa £6k, to include cills, kidney bowls etc but this is the sort of figure that starts to make cars uneconomic to repair. Whether the refinishing material is base coat and lacquer, or "solid" colour will not significantly affect the cost. Get the work done by a reputable repairer and one who has done this work before. Consider http://www.alsaautomotive.co.uk
for example.

Private retail for a sound 911 3.2 Coupe? Who knows, but it is a matter of specification and condition. It's on a car by car basis really, and a general guide wouldn't be any real help. A superb middle of the road spec late 3.2 coupe recently sold for £19k and that was private sale!!

4 years ago, I went the route that you may be considering - looking for a car that needed some loving care and attention and priced accordingly. The greatest care was taken and it took some time and some fruitless journeys but I got one in the end for the sort of money you have available. Incidentally, I was not the only person chasing cars of this sort!!

It has taken some time and useful amounts of money to get the car to the condition that I needed, but I would not hesitate in doing the same thing again.

Happy hunting.



 
If you are prepared to consider LHD then you should still be able to get a good 3.2 for £12K. Whereas there used to be a big difference between LHD and RHD cars a few years ago in recent times the gap seems to have closed. The bargains that existed in Europe a year or two ago just don't seem to be quite so plentiful. IMHO good solid 3.2s will definitely start to appreciate in the next year or two.

There is no such thing as RUST FREE! All cars have rust to some degree or other, some more than others and some with rust more visible than others. There are plenty of nice looking (at first glance) cars about but what lurks underneath?

Find an honest LHD (Euro spec, i.e. 231 Hp!) 3.2 coupe that has spent its early years in a moderately dry / salt free environment (anywhere is better than the UK) and ignore a few minor scrapes and bumps. If the car hasn't been restored you know what you are getting. Then spend some money (over a period of time if finances dictate) to get the car perfect. At least you know you have a solid base to start with!

Budget was a not an issue when I purchased my LHD 84 Coupe 7 years ago. I looked at tens of cars, mostly RHD and mostly G50's. As a hobby car I couldn't quite see the big issue with LHD and most of the cars were a lot more genuine than many of the RHD cars I looked at at well known establishments ( i.e. LHD cars were usually being sold without tyre black and quick cosmetic tarting up). Don't get too obsessed with G50 gearbox cars. The G50 unit is far more durable than the 915 box, but the latter is a porsche gearbox, is lighter and not too expensive to repair (i.e. worn synchros etc ..) The earlier cars tend to have less baggage (electric gizmos) to go wrong and are slightly lighter and IMHO "purer".

Also consider that solid colour paintwork is far easier to locally repair/refurbish than metallic shades.

Always check the underneath of the car. If it is original and shows liitle sign of rust / damage then this is a good indicator that problems with the rest of the car even if not yet visible are probably not horrendous.

In summary. Get an honest solid car, be patient and make it perfect. Avoid cosmetic wonders, this really is the dangerous middle ground. Alternatively by the VERY best original cars and pay top dollar for the pleasure. Those who own these latter cars know that they have something special have often owned their cars for a reasonable period of time and will generally need good money to consider letting them go.

Good luck! Dont wait too long!!
 
Some good advice here, and I concur totally with Andrew's final comments. Check the car carefully, don't be conned by a good level of polish (although don't be put off either!) and take your time - buy a bad one and you'll live to regret it!

I've had mine over 6 years now and the joy of having a car which performs faultlessly and where everything works meant it was worth the premium price I paid. As a bonus it costs ridiculously little to run so my 'Total Ownership' costs have been low and the overall reliability gets you doing preventative maintenance for the fun of it (I've just replaced all caliper seals and brake fluid - although I did rather sadly paint calipers and hubs at the same time!). Don't worry about mileage (mine has done 105K) and remember the old adage about buying the owner as well as the car. Get it right and every journey is a special treat - as good a stress buster as anything I know.

I'm in Andrews group of owners who know they've got something special and would need good money to let them go - find one of these and you're made (this is not a sales pitch - I'm keeping mine!)

Where are you in Cumbria? - I may be able to recommend a garage for you.

Good Luck

Roy
 
Don't disrespect that SC of Whitechameleons!!! It used to be my car. It is actually Rosewood metallic and in my eyes (and a lot of others to i may add) it looked the dogs whatsits. In my opinion you should buy off condition and not colour.
 
Bronco,
In essence, the following is something I posted about a year ago:
A sense of moral duty requires that I put my 2 cents in here, despite risking offending fellow 911 enthusiasts here. First, let me say I've got an early 911 ('72) that I've had for 6 years and have just put a new engine in it and service it myself, so am reasonably experienced with 911s and can speak with some authority. I spent 18 months looking for this car when I lived in California- there are a lot of rusty 911s out there, even in California (half of that state is coastal = sea salt).

In January of last year, I decided I wanted an SC or 3.2 as a daily driver for £10-12K. I spent a lot of money travelling to look at cars that were totally misrepresented over the phone, got shafted by owners who sold their cars knowing I had bought train tix to view theirs, inlcuding PCGB members, etc, etc. I did not see a single car that I would waste my money on. At £10-12k, you will be VERY lucky to find what it sounds like you are looking for. Ignore the crap in 911 & Porsche World on buying these cars for £10k, they are not genuine articles (I cancelled my subscription to this magazine because I feel very strongly about this issue).

I then decided to up my budget and looked at some later 3.2 Carreras. Still nothing I would put my money into, unless you can live with the constant threat of corrosion or an engine rebuild (you usually can find a car that will need either a body restoration or an engine rebuild, sometimes both). These cars DO rust, despite being galvanised. The only thing I could find were mint cars that are top money and too nice to use (ie- you will pay massive depreciation if you do).

Then I upped my budget further and looked at 964's. Still no joy. Take for instance an apparently beautiful car with 60k and FPSH + many bills. I had a PPI done on this car (another £150). It needed, at conservative estimate, £7k's worth of work to sort it out, and the owner was asking £17.5k.

So, I had three PPI's done and didn't buy one of the cars, and remember, I'm quite experienced with these cars, but not an expert. Let me reiterate, at £10-12K, you could very well get yourself into deep financial trouble with a 911. I honestly, from first hand experience, don't think you can get a RHD 911 at that price that you can use properly, without putting a ton of money into it. The cost to sort out any corrosion is going to be massive. If you find corrosion somewhere, I guarantee it will be elsewhere on that car, you just haven't found it yet. And we haven't talked about engine or gearbox rebuilds yet. True, these engines are bulletproof, but in the UK, the salt that is put on the roads corrodes the studs that run from the crankcase, through the cylinders and hold the heads down. If even one of these goes, you're looking at £2.5k.

So, you might be asking. How did I resolve my situation? I took the advice of a local independent whom I spoke to before seeing my first £10K SC. He told me not to do it, but to consider a 968. I told him it had to be a 911, even though I've already got one. Those front engined, water cooled cars are not real Porsches.

Then one day, 6 months into my hunt and totally demoralised by the poor quality of 911s on the market (the best ones get snapped up immediately), I tested a 968. It was a revelation. 240bhp and a six speed gearbox. Not the aural or visceral stimulation of my early 911, but one heck of a car and eminently suitable as a daily driver. A very under-rated car that must not be compared with a 911, but is very quick and handles beautifully. So after looking at 5 968s, I bought one in budget and with considerably lower running costs and much higher peace of mind. It's a tremendous car.

Food for thought. I wish you luck in your search, but please, be very careful.

David


PS: Yes I know there's nothing like the thrill of taking a 911 to the red line or willing yourself to hold the throttle deep into a sharpening corner to avoid the dreaded trailing throttle oversteer, but try describing these passions to someone who has spent every penny of his/her savings on that £10-12k 911, and then has to pay for the £10k body restoration or the £5k top end rebuild (or both). That visceral stimulation pails into insignificance compared with the consequent financial anxiety.
 
Blimey you've made me depressed with that Doc Dave... [&o]



Anyone wanna buy an old rust bucket that will soon need loadsamoney spent on it? [:)]
 
Hi Bronco, as said above by many, 12k is a little low for a good example of a G50 3.2.

By comparison, my car has the 915 gearbox, is a1984 targa, with 120,000 miles on the clock of an original engine, with good bodywork and 2 owners over the last 14 years. I would be looking at selling around £12,000 should I wish to part with it. If I keep the car, I would be anticipating a quality respray in the next 2 years or so.

I hope this gives you a more balanced look at things.

Good luck with your search!
 

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