ORIGINAL: 2.4te
Bronco,
In essence, the following is something I posted about a year ago:
A sense of moral duty requires that I put my 2 cents in here, despite risking offending fellow 911 enthusiasts here. First, let me say I've got an early 911 ('72) that I've had for 6 years and have just put a new engine in it and service it myself, so am reasonably experienced with 911s and can speak with some authority. I spent 18 months looking for this car when I lived in California- there are a lot of rusty 911s out there, even in California (half of that state is coastal = sea salt).
In January of last year, I decided I wanted an SC or 3.2 as a daily driver for £10-12K. I spent a lot of money travelling to look at cars that were totally misrepresented over the phone, got shafted by owners who sold their cars knowing I had bought train tix to view theirs, inlcuding PCGB members, etc, etc. I did not see a single car that I would waste my money on. At £10-12k, you will be VERY lucky to find what it sounds like you are looking for. Ignore the crap in 911 & Porsche World on buying these cars for £10k, they are not genuine articles (I cancelled my subscription to this magazine because I feel very strongly about this issue).
I then decided to up my budget and looked at some later 3.2 Carreras. Still nothing I would put my money into, unless you can live with the constant threat of corrosion or an engine rebuild (you usually can find a car that will need either a body restoration or an engine rebuild, sometimes both). These cars DO rust, despite being galvanised. The only thing I could find were mint cars that are top money and too nice to use (ie- you will pay massive depreciation if you do).
Then I upped my budget further and looked at 964's. Still no joy. Take for instance an apparently beautiful car with 60k and FPSH + many bills. I had a PPI done on this car (another £150). It needed, at conservative estimate, £7k's worth of work to sort it out, and the owner was asking £17.5k.
So, I had three PPI's done and didn't buy one of the cars, and remember, I'm quite experienced with these cars, but not an expert. Let me reiterate, at £10-12K, you could very well get yourself into deep financial trouble with a 911. I honestly, from first hand experience, don't think you can get a RHD 911 at that price that you can use properly, without putting a ton of money into it. The cost to sort out any corrosion is going to be massive. If you find corrosion somewhere, I guarantee it will be elsewhere on that car, you just haven't found it yet. And we haven't talked about engine or gearbox rebuilds yet. True, these engines are bulletproof, but in the UK, the salt that is put on the roads corrodes the studs that run from the crankcase, through the cylinders and hold the heads down. If even one of these goes, you're looking at £2.5k.
So, you might be asking. How did I resolve my situation? I took the advice of a local independent whom I spoke to before seeing my first £10K SC. He told me not to do it, but to consider a 968. I told him it had to be a 911, even though I've already got one. Those front engined, water cooled cars are not real Porsches.
Then one day, 6 months into my hunt and totally demoralised by the poor quality of 911s on the market (the best ones get snapped up immediately), I tested a 968. It was a revelation. 240bhp and a six speed gearbox. Not the aural or visceral stimulation of my early 911, but one heck of a car and eminently suitable as a daily driver. A very under-rated car that must not be compared with a 911, but is very quick and handles beautifully. So after looking at 5 968s, I bought one in budget and with considerably lower running costs and much higher peace of mind. It's a tremendous car.
Food for thought. I wish you luck in your search, but please, be very careful.
David
PS: Yes I know there's nothing like the thrill of taking a 911 to the red line or willing yourself to hold the throttle deep into a sharpening corner to avoid the dreaded trailing throttle oversteer, but try describing these passions to someone who has spent every penny of his/her savings on that £10-12k 911, and then has to pay for the £10k body restoration or the £5k top end rebuild (or both). That visceral stimulation pails into insignificance compared with the consequent financial anxiety.
I am not about to argue with you (its your experience after all), but as an observation, you must be incredibly picky or just damned unlucky [
] I tend to take a more optimistic view of sellers and their honesty (and I hope when I have sold things to forum users that they have found me to be fair and honest also) and the result seems to be that I meet honest like minded people who treat me fairly. Maybe I am just a sucker, but I have yet to be burnt too bad? Maybe you are just particularly risk averse?
I had owned a 72 911 prior to my Carrera and been thru a ton of problems with that car, but probably no more than you might expect on a car of that age and at that price. I knew better, but I bought the first Carrera I looked at - from Henry Firman at 911Virgin as it happened. I bought my late 1989 G50 car for £12,500, but there was a catch. I knew from the inspection that it had been in an accident, so I got it inspected at JZM. It looked well repaired, but it was not 100% straight. Henry and I agreed to split the bill basically, so it got the suspension and engine/gearbox pulled out, got put on the jig and pulled straight. A few other things got sorted out and I walked away with a very late, lowish mileage G50 3.2 for under £14,500. The point of the story is that there are very few cars that have not had an accident of some kind in their 16 to 25 years on this earth, but (and its a big but), all these things are fixable. If you know what is wrong and buy from a reputable vendor or a willing private seller, you can work out a deal and get a car that you know is fixed properly. To expect perfection seems IMHO to be silly - not to imply that you did expect perfection.
Since that time, the only things I have had to spend money on in 5 years of ownership are, a replacement steering rack (probably accident damaged, but who knows), a bubble of rust round the windscreen (from poor replacement presumably), a replacement AFM to cure the hunting at idle issue and a bent brake hard line. Now, I also have a 2 inch thick folder of bills from upgrades, modifications and stuff that wears out from track use, but that is a different story. If I ever sell my car the lucky buyer will get an old chassis, but most of the rest of the car will be new.
I do take some issue with the costs though. I had to have one side of the car repainted after someone crashed into it when it was parked outside my house. That was £3,000 but it could have been done more cheaply. My repairs on the jig were under £4,000. I had the roof repainted with the windscreen out for the rust bubble which was from memory a few hundred. I hate to think what would require £10k to repair! My car will never win a concours, but it kind of shiny and rust free and straight. To spend any more money for a higher std of finish on a car of this value is stupid IMHO. Earlier this year I had the engine rebuilt with new rings, stretch type rod-bolts, a full top end including hot cams, Ti retainers, race valve springs, head studs, SSI exhaust and stainless muffler, backdate heat and plate all tinware and new 930 Sport clutch and lightweight aluminium pressure plate - all for not much more than £5,000. I know, I got a screaming deal, but you can do a topend rebuild plus a fair bit more for £5k pretty easily. You can cut my parts bill by a lot, but then I now have a virtually new, free revving, 260hp engine that is built for 7500rpm and which screams its little head off from 4000rpm up. If I had spent the better part of £5k for a std 230hp engine I would be gutted.
The thing is, these cars are not new. You need to budget for repairs. I think you need to budget for a top-end in the first 5-10 years of ownership. Most of the 3.2s wear out valve guides. Mine at circa 75,000 miles used virtually zero oil but still showed significant valve guide wear once opened up. Maybe a gearbox rebuild should also be budgetted for if its a 915 in particular. The cars don't depreciate, so £5k over 5 years isn't really that bad in the context of new car ownership.
Should one buy a 968 instead? Rationally, maybe you are right, but if you want a 911, then its like an itch you just can't scratch and the 968 doesn't even enter the equation. you already had a 911, I didn't [
]. For me and many others it was never even an option. Now a hot, modified 944T? Maybe, but that's another project altogether!
My $0.02 of advice? Find a half decent one, get it inspected, fix it up and drive the living daylights out of it. Its only money and you only live once. Of course, the flipside of free internet advice is that its also worthless [
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HTH
Richard
