Are Spyders Becoming Extinct At OPCs!

[spyderwhite]

"which brings me back to the road, and some points from Spyderwhite about performance, you don't get the 964 boys moaning about a Ford hot hatch being faster do you ! is that an issue ?, the Spyder is way way fast enough and that 3.4 is a sweet unit which revs right out to red line."

You don't expect a 30 year car to be that quick compared to a modern turbo hatch but you do a 3 year old porsche! I am not talking about 85 leptons plus but coming of say a slip road to join the moving 80 mph dual carriage traffic , or from the lights at a roundabout on to a dual carriageway with a left hand hill up to the next roundabout with a ford sitting up your arse is embarrassing !

The 987 spyder is a lovely car to drive and handles like a dream but lacks low to mid range punch!which is made worse by the long gearing which I seem to recall you were doing nearly 75- 80mph in 2nd before hitting 3rd

Again I WILL POST they are GREAT CARS and BETTER CARS but imo not as fun cars !

Should that not read they are great cars , fun cars but not necessarily better!

 

[daro911]

 

[geoff lane]

It's better, faster, rides better, better handling and this goes on and on, but is it fun?

I do know what he means, D's posts do prompt lots of comments and opinion but in a certain situation he is correct.

If you are looking for a car for weekends which gives a driving experience 2nd to none your looking for that special something.

I do 35k miles a year most of it in a BMW 330D M Sport which is a fantastic car for everyday use. My Porsche (and I acknowledge I am very lucky) is for those special driving moments mainly on the public road which needs to take me to a different level to my BMW.

I have owned some very special cars most of them superb in their own right but not all did it for me or in particular hitting that criteria "the perfect weekend car" which to me is about involvement . But involvement to me will be different to involvement for you as we all look for our own perfect driving machine. I am no driving god but I know what I like and what I want, which won't be what suits everyone else my 997 Turbo S was a fantastic car that gobbles miles very quickly but to me it did what my BMW does only much better, My 997 GT3RS was just about perfect for me but I put so much mileage on it I felt I had to sell it, it was the only car I've ever made a profit on, it came alive every time I drove it no matter how fast or slow it was going again my opinion. My 991GT3 was without doubt a better car it was easier to drive fast, much nicer in the cabin but you were going much faster (license losing) before it came alive in my opinion. O' the RS steering does have more feel than the GT3 fact. If I was using 1 for an everyday car (and yes you can use a GT3 as an everyday car) then it would be the 991GT3 (or the Turbo S) but I would need to take it on track for that special feeling. The Boxster I now have in its current spec is a very nice car giving me about 90% of everything I want on todays roads with the ability to also have some fun on track and my spec is about as close as you can get to the Spyder without it being a Spyder. The current Spyder must be a spot on car that will come alive at sane speeds (I also include a GT4) without it being at the level of the GT3 which is so good you have to take it on track to get the most out of it.

Hopefully I have put some context behind D's point from a different but similar angle, we are all looking for something slightly different in our perfect car and it would not do for us all to want the same thing and as time moves on forums will continue to debate the next best thing which is as it should be, how about hybrid will that be the next best thing, the car is better, faster but what happened to the noise !!

and so it goes on

Geoff

 

[TB303]

Can only agree with the above Geoff.

My point is more that he could perhaps make more of an effort to accept that some people enjoy different things, find different points about a car to like/dislike, and that it is often subjective etc.

As I mentioned, I couldn't personally live with the 987 Spyder which is why I didn't buy one. I wanted to love it but it didn't meet my requirements. At the same time, I respect how good a car it is and that many owners are extremely happy with it - they are clearly great cars and drive beautifully.

 

[flat6]

Interesting topic. I think it depends on your driving style as to what you look for in a car's characteristics to find it fun. What you prefer the car to do at the limit and beyond the limit contributes to how you feel at the wheel, the confidence you have to go faster and the enjoyment you get. Also, if you want to drive really fast you don't drive a car beyond the limit to the point that you have to apply correction or wait for the car to settle, delaying getting back on the power. Whether a car understeers or oversteers beyond the limit, how easy it is to balance on the edge of grip and how the driver aids kick in can induce different levels of satisfaction in different drivers. At the extreme end, it does get a bit counter productive when a reviewer tries hard to power slide a car that he's discovered that the driver aids just will not let you do. Ok it's bad for them trying to do some show-boating and the drivers aids may not be as eloquently implemented as another car but some buyers might not have it as a 'must have' on their tick list that the car must behave in a particular way when on the edge. But yes it can all make a big difference to how you enjoy a car based on your driving style. Example [link=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTPdfZ8nqc4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTPdfZ8nqc4[/link]

I think the Boxster Spyder will do just fine because its a road car. The Boxster S and GTS satisfy their market very well so no reason for the Spyder not to. The GT4 for me sits in a middle ground. It's intended for track use but doesn't have an engine red lining at 9000rpm that I think would add to the exhilaration on track. Yes it has the chassis and suspension perfected for track but without the usual type of engine Porsche would put in a GTx car. But the engine is fine for the road whilst its chassis and suspension perhaps less so? So which is it - a track car or road car? Or maybe its fine as both. I don't know, i've never driven one. I know the GT4 is commanding huge premiums, so clearly a demand to try the car out, but given its intended purpose, which to me is very different to the Spyder, will it be legendary? These are questions not statements. What do you think?

I must say, I quite enjoy driving a car quickly at sane speeds, such as around tight corners, braking as late as you dare, getting on the power as early as you can. Driving a newer or more capable car doesn't alter that for me. If the newer car allows me to brake later from the speed limie to the cornering speed and lets me take the corner 10mph quicker and get on the power earlier on exit, the car has provided a thrill for my limited abilities (I wouldn't know what the limits of the car are as to know whether it has come alive as i'm not that proficient a driver therefore not willing to push it on public roads). Some of the best driving roads aren't full of long straights that get you into 3 figures in the newer cars before the next braking point (well, not in my hands). I found it quite thrilling taking a faster car around the Evo triangle than I had before. I found I has a lot more work to do and thinking about what I was doing because the speeds I was getting to the corners was much higher and the grip was higher so I had to ask more of myself what I was willing to try on exit. But i've never driven a GT3 or similar and i'm not a racing driver so I guess those cars can make you feel you are not asking enough of them to come alive if not driven in the right environment. So I do see Geoff's point about the newer cars.

 

[Sandy59]

I think at the end of the day it's down to the individual to decide for themselves if they're having enough fun or not in a particular car. I had a lot of fun in my 987.2 Spyder, but from PEC drive and first impressions of the new one I'm fairly confident I'm going to have at least as much fun with it as well.

I was really happy with the older steering but I don't think the new one is that bad, I can always take out my 968CS for a steering feel 'fix' that's even better than the old Spyder in that respect.

 

[daro911]

Seriously BIG spec Spyder here if anyone is looking still []

Price: On application With 2 Years of Porsche Approved Warranty Mileage: 435 Exterior Colour: Sapphire Blue Metallic Displacement: 3,800 cc Power Output: 375 HP Previous Owners: 1 [link=http://www.porsche.co.uk/solihull]Porsche Centre Solihull[/link] Highlands Road B90 4GT Solihull Great Britain

[h3]Equipment[/h3] 20-inch Boxster Spyder Design wheels6-speed manual gearbox64-litre fuel tankAdaptive Sports seats Plus (18-way, electric)Automatically dimming mirrors with integrated rain sensorBOSE® surround sound-systemBi-Xenon-Headlights incl. Porsche Dynamic Light System Plus (PDLS+) with dynamic high beamBlack Bi-Xenon headlights including Porsche Dynamic Light System (PDLS)Boxster Spyder wheels painted in satin Black (complete)Carbon interior package (with leather interior package)Centre console trim in leatherDigital radioDoor opening loops in colour of decorative stitching

Full colour wheel centre capsLight design packageMobile phone preparationNet-type wind deflectorPorsche Communication Management (PCM) including navigation moduleReversing cameraSeat heatingSilver Grey seat beltsSmoking packageSpeed limit displayStitching in contrasting colourStorage net in passenger footwellTwo-zone automatic climate control

 

[jdpef356]

Glad to see it has the smokers package!

That option gives you the little 'roll top' instead of a just a hole in the console[]

 

[SC50]

Seriously BIG spec Spyder here if anyone is looking still []

Price: On application With 2 Years of Porsche Approved Warranty Mileage: 435 Exterior Colour: Sapphire Blue Metallic Displacement: 3,800 cc Power Output: 375 HP Previous Owners: 1 [link=http://www.porsche.co.uk/solihull]Porsche Centre Solihull[/link] Highlands Road B90 4GT Solihull Great Britain

[h3]Equipment[/h3] 20-inch Boxster Spyder Design wheels6-speed manual gearbox64-litre fuel tankAdaptive Sports seats Plus (18-way, electric)Automatically dimming mirrors with integrated rain sensorBOSE® surround sound-systemBi-Xenon-Headlights incl. Porsche Dynamic Light System Plus (PDLS+) with dynamic high beamBlack Bi-Xenon headlights including Porsche Dynamic Light System (PDLS)Boxster Spyder wheels painted in satin Black (complete)Carbon interior package (with leather interior package)Centre console trim in leatherDigital radioDoor opening loops in colour of decorative stitching

Full colour wheel centre capsLight design packageMobile phone preparationNet-type wind deflectorPorsche Communication Management (PCM) including navigation moduleReversing cameraSeat heatingSilver Grey seat beltsSmoking packageSpeed limit displayStitching in contrasting colourStorage net in passenger footwellTwo-zone automatic climate control

Can any one tell me why this is showing a 2 year warranty when the new cars coming out have a 3 year

as standard

 

[MrDemon]

because that is a used car quote, they are not used to flipping lol but yes it will have 3 years Solihul need a telling off they have had the most GT4 and Spyder flipped by the looks of things so they must have sold all there cars to the wrong people !

 

[CLIFFWILKINS]

because that is a used car quote, they are not used to flipping lol but yes it will have 3 years Solihul need a telling off they have had the most GT4 and Spyder flipped by the looks of things so they must have sold all there cars to the wrong people !

Have to agree 100 per cent robbing geniune enthusiast club members and people who can only stretch to the base price of circa 60 k Spyder circa 65 k GT4 geniune people that would love cherish the chance to own one .

Now not a chance with most GT4s fetching 100 k plus such a pity.

 

[MrDemon]

Interesting topic. I think it depends on your driving style as to what you look for in a car's characteristics to find it fun. What you prefer the car to do at the limit and beyond the limit contributes to how you feel at the wheel, the confidence you have to go faster and the enjoyment you get. Also, if you want to drive really fast you don't drive a car beyond the limit to the point that you have to apply correction or wait for the car to settle, delaying getting back on the power. Whether a car understeers or oversteers beyond the limit, how easy it is to balance on the edge of grip and how the driver aids kick in can induce different levels of satisfaction in different drivers. At the extreme end, it does get a bit counter productive when a reviewer tries hard to power slide a car that he's discovered that the driver aids just will not let you do. Ok it's bad for them trying to do some show-boating and the drivers aids may not be as eloquently implemented as another car but some buyers might not have it as a 'must have' on their tick list that the car must behave in a particular way when on the edge. But yes it can all make a big difference to how you enjoy a car based on your driving style. Example [link=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTPdfZ8nqc4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTPdfZ8nqc4[/link]

I think the Boxster Spyder will do just fine because its a road car. The Boxster S and GTS satisfy their market very well so no reason for the Spyder not to. The GT4 for me sits in a middle ground. It's intended for track use but doesn't have an engine red lining at 9000rpm that I think would add to the exhilaration on track. Yes it has the chassis and suspension perfected for track but without the usual type of engine Porsche would put in a GTx car. But the engine is fine for the road whilst its chassis and suspension perhaps less so? So which is it - a track car or road car? Or maybe its fine as both. I don't know, i've never driven one. I know the GT4 is commanding huge premiums, so clearly a demand to try the car out, but given its intended purpose, which to me is very different to the Spyder, will it be legendary? These are questions not statements. What do you think?

I must say, I quite enjoy driving a car quickly at sane speeds, such as around tight corners, braking as late as you dare, getting on the power as early as you can. Driving a newer or more capable car doesn't alter that for me. If the newer car allows me to brake later from the speed limie to the cornering speed and lets me take the corner 10mph quicker and get on the power earlier on exit, the car has provided a thrill for my limited abilities (I wouldn't know what the limits of the car are as to know whether it has come alive as i'm not that proficient a driver therefore not willing to push it on public roads). Some of the best driving roads aren't full of long straights that get you into 3 figures in the newer cars before the next braking point (well, not in my hands). I found it quite thrilling taking a faster car around the Evo triangle than I had before. I found I has a lot more work to do and thinking about what I was doing because the speeds I was getting to the corners was much higher and the grip was higher so I had to ask more of myself what I was willing to try on exit. But i've never driven a GT3 or similar and i'm not a racing driver so I guess those cars can make you feel you are not asking enough of them to come alive if not driven in the right environment. So I do see Geoff's point about the newer cars.

Nice points, but you are now going faster to get the same fun in a newer car (your words) , faster = more chance of point's more chance of a worse crash if that were to happen etc etc I took my Spyder to wales last year and went past a few camera vans on the nice twisty bits, it's 60mph limit. As I stated in my 1st post about fun, I can now do the Fosse way at 100mph one handed in the GT4, in my Spyder it's 85mph 2 handed. So while the new cars CAN BE fun the new speeds to get to that level are much higher.

quote for a GT4 "So which is it - a track car or road car?"

The GT4 is a road car though and through which has adjustable sus so YOU can track it a few times a year without killing your tyres off and the 1st ever Boxster or Cayman to do so. The club sport is a track car. will it be legendary? yes if they never make a NA GT4 again, nope if they do as the new car will be better I would guess esp steering ;-)

here are a few pics to show what a road car looks like, my car and what a track car looks like (the CS)

A road car and hence why fitting scaffold in one seems pointless imo and 90% of the GT4's for sale atm are ALL CS pack flippers !!! I am sure a RS will come which IS always touted as a track car which works for the road over the GT4 a road car which can be tracked.

A track car ;-), it's night and day !

 

[MrDemon]

It's better, faster, rides better, better handling and this goes on and on, but is it fun?

I do know what he means, D's posts do prompt lots of comments and opinion but in a certain situation he is correct.

If you are looking for a car for weekends which gives a driving experience 2nd to none your looking for that special something.

I do 35k miles a year most of it in a BMW 330D M Sport which is a fantastic car for everyday use. My Porsche (and I acknowledge I am very lucky) is for those special driving moments mainly on the public road which needs to take me to a different level to my BMW.

I have owned some very special cars most of them superb in their own right but not all did it for me or in particular hitting that criteria "the perfect weekend car" which to me is about involvement . But involvement to me will be different to involvement for you as we all look for our own perfect driving machine. I am no driving god but I know what I like and what I want, which won't be what suits everyone else my 997 Turbo S was a fantastic car that gobbles miles very quickly but to me it did what my BMW does only much better, My 997 GT3RS was just about perfect for me but I put so much mileage on it I felt I had to sell it, it was the only car I've ever made a profit on, it came alive every time I drove it no matter how fast or slow it was going again my opinion. My 991GT3 was without doubt a better car it was easier to drive fast, much nicer in the cabin but you were going much faster (license losing) before it came alive in my opinion. O' the RS steering does have more feel than the GT3 fact. If I was using 1 for an everyday car (and yes you can use a GT3 as an everyday car) then it would be the 991GT3 (or the Turbo S) but I would need to take it on track for that special feeling. The Boxster I now have in its current spec is a very nice car giving me about 90% of everything I want on todays roads with the ability to also have some fun on track and my spec is about as close as you can get to the Spyder without it being a Spyder. The current Spyder must be a spot on car that will come alive at sane speeds (I also include a GT4) without it being at the level of the GT3 which is so good you have to take it on track to get the most out of it.

Hopefully I have put some context behind D's point from a different but similar angle, we are all looking for something slightly different in our perfect car and it would not do for us all to want the same thing and as time moves on forums will continue to debate the next best thing which is as it should be, how about hybrid will that be the next best thing, the car is better, faster but what happened to the noise !!

and so it goes on

Geoff

Great Post Goff and better put than mine, no car is 100% hence I have 4 !! so my FUN car has to have the steering feel, the 981, GT4, 991 all of them don't have it at the level I want for my 1 day a fortnight car/drive, while that might be ok for most people, it's NOT ok for me :-( So if I sold my 987.2 Spyder NO new Porsche would be ok for me as a Sunday car, I would have to buy another Exige. I think steering is really a key point to my personal enjoyment.

 

[daro911]

MrDemon Nice points, but you are now going faster to get the same fun in a newer car (your words) , faster = more chance of point's more chance of a worse crash if that were to happen etc etc I took my Spyder to wales last year and went past a few camera vans on the nice twisty bits, it's 60mph limit. As I stated in my 1st post about fun, I can now do the Fosse way at 100mph one handed in the GT4, in my Spyder it's 85mph 2 handed. So while the new cars CAN BE fun the new speeds to get to that level are much higher.

Mr D makes a valid point here as back in 2012 when I had my first 981 S test drive on a windy day too the ease of speed and lack of wind noise & turbulence inside the cabin at 3 figures was quite remarkable and totally highlighted when going home in the Spyder I was reaching my comfort zone at 75-80 mph from turbulence inside & outside the cabin

It really struck me how easy it was to reach my comfort zone in the 987 v the new more advanced 981

But I am still keen to get into my 981 Spyder being a manual v my all too easy too speed PDK should equal the levels required for my fun runs[8D]

 

[flat6]

Thanks MrD. Yep by that description of what the GT4 is and the expectations on it, it will carve out a spot in the history books.

My faster car is 'only' a turbo not of the GTx ilk, so when I faster its not because I am pushing it faster to make the car come alive and maintain the thrill, its just that the car is faster than the Spyder between one corner and the next, so I arrive faster, then faster through the corner with the grip and faster out of the corner again with power/torque. It has probably come less alive than the Spyder but I guess you could say a turbo doesn't come alive (I don't know) it just gets on with it, but the thrill I get from it is not the car coming alive just that this car vs the Spyder has a lot more that I have the courage (and sense) to be willing to unleash, so it's a learning experience (for someone like me) every time I drive it. Whereas the Spyder I got to grips with that level of performance.

It might only be a 40mph (just guessing I can't keep my eyes on the speedo) very tight corner but taken at say 50mph instead of 40mph or even if the corner speed is the same (because the Spyder was sublime at cornering), braking from a higher speed achieved down the straight from the previous corner. Even if its only a 40mph corner, when I mash the throttle on the Spyder I can cope with with. I haven't unstuck the turbo but i'm still learning how much to open the taps on exit because it can be ballistic. I've unstuck the Spyder at 30mph with a bit too much throttle so i'm nervous in the turbo but its given me no reason to be so i'm getting a bit more assertive with it and so far OK. It's ancient compared to the Spyder but I guess for me the thrill is that i'm still learning about what I can do with the car. It's still saying to me "Is that all you want from me? I can do more for you you know". And that's at low speeds. I don't need to be knowing what it feels like at its top speed of 193mph. It still has quite a nice feeling to the steering, being an older car (10 years old in a few months), vs that refinement you get in the newer cars like the 991. So going from the gen 2 987 Spyder to this car was quite a nice transition. It's no Spyder-dampered, mid-engined 2 seater, that's for sure but I couldn't compare them - but it's not had me backing off in any way less capable to the Spyder so i'm happy (was nervous I was going to be disappointed with it given everything you read about them). Had a passenger ride in a gen 1 turbo before I got mine and it felt really softly sprung. Don't know if its because mine has only done 15000 miles but it feels really tight and firm. Maybe i'm not pushing hard enough

Thank you for going easy on me ;-)

 

[jdpef356]

[font="comic sans ms,sans-serif"]HAPPY CHRISTMAS TO ALL[/font]

[font="comic sans ms,sans-serif"]

[/font]

 

[daro911]

Merry Christmas Spydermen

 

[GinT44]

Just had the spdyer out for the first time in 3 weeks due to work commitments. i haven't driven the new one but all I can say is the "old" one is just so good - and I have PDK ! In sport mode it's sublime without the paddles And flicking it into manual mode even better... It really is a wonderfully light, responsive machine without being scary (unless you choose sport plus in the damp ) I love it. And that's the main thing; we all love our cars on here and when we drive them if we get home and the worlds a better place - job done! Enjoy the holidays and DON'T stick it in the garage !

 

[daro911]

Can so i.d. with your comments and will certainly miss the fun of paddle shifting in sport mode when I let my PDK go in the new year

Looking good for some fun run on Monday [8D]

 

[jdpef356]

Yes the weathers looking good for early in the week,

I may well fire up and hit the road.[]