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Are Spyders Becoming Extinct At OPCs!

kitchens said:
According to the web site £43.995 Prices have not risen at the rate one would have expected ,if the 981 had not been released I would have predicted some cars would have been starting with a Five by now
Your £50k 987 Spyder has arrived

[link=http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/porsche/boxster-987-05-12/boxster-3-4-spyder-2dr/5843355?v=c]http://www.pistonheads.co...spyder-2dr/5843355?v=c[/link]

[h3]BOXSTER 3.4 Spyder 2dr (2011)[/h3]£50,000 [*][/i] 19,303 miles[*][/i] Petrol[*][/i] 320 bhp[*][/i] Manual[/ul]
 
The £93k Spyder has arrived too [:eek:]:ROFLMAO:

£92,990 [*][/i] 25 miles[*][/i] Petrol[*][/i] Manual[/ul] Cheshire

[link=http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/dealer/617325]
617325-DealerLogo.jpg
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Rubbish weekend weather... This is the problem with no elec roof..you can't be bothered to get the main roof off in case of a downpour. English summer 😫

 
I would not think they have a snowballs chance of selling the £50K Spyder spyder. Just had a look and found this at Hexagon:-

[link=http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201606104798565?make=porsche&radius=1500&page=8&search-target=usedcars&searchcontext=default&transmission=manual&onesearchad=new%2Cnearlynew%2Cused&sort=locasc&model=boxster&postcode=cb45bx&logcode=p&adPos=9]http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201606104798565?make=porsche&radius=1500&page=8&search-target=usedcars&searchcontext=default&transmission=manual&onesearchad=new%2Cnearlynew%2Cused&sort=locasc&model=boxster&postcode=cb45bx&logcode=p&adPos=9[/link]

Key Facts[/h2]2011Convertible13,600 milesManual3.4LPetrol[/ul]WHITE, CARRARA WHITE PAINTWORK WITH BLACK LEATHER & ALCANTARA INTERIOR, FACTORY OPTIONS INCLUDE:-, 6 SPEED MANUAL TRANSMISSION, BUCKET SEATS, , RED SEAT BELTS, XENON HEADLAMPS, PAINTED WHITE CENTRAL CONSOLE AND INTERIOR TRIM STRIP, 3 SPOKE LEATHER SPORTS STEERING WHEEL, CRUISE CONTROL, ON BOARD COMPUTER, ELECTRIC WINDOWS, 19” SPYDER ALLOYS, REAR PARK ASSIST, BLACK SIDE DECALS.This UK supplied vehicle has the desirable manual gearbox, and has had 2 Porsche main dealer services. It will also be supplied with a new MOT and a comprehensive 12 month warranty., £43,995

daro911 said:
kitchens said:
According to the web site £43.995 Prices have not risen at the rate one would have expected ,if the 981 had not been released I would have predicted some cars would have been starting with a Five by now
Your £50k 987 Spyder has arrived

[link=http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/porsche/boxster-987-05-12/boxster-3-4-spyder-2dr/5843355?v=c]http://www.pistonheads.co...spyder-2dr/5843355?v=c[/link]

[h3]BOXSTER 3.4 Spyder 2dr (2011)[/h3]£50,000

[ul][*] 19,303 miles[*] Petrol[*] 320 bhp[*] Manual
[/ul]
 
C2MTH said:
Rubbish weekend weather... This is the problem with no elec roof..you can't be bothered to get the main roof off in case of a downpour. English summer 😫

I think that's one advantage of the 981 Spyder.

I've really enjoyed driving mine with roof up, windows down and SP engaged !!

Obviously as soon as the sun pokes his head out, that roof is coming off though [:)]

 
Is it just me that thinks there is something very odd about a 987 at 43k, and a 981 at 93k? A 981 worth 50k more? All seems a bit nuts.

 
MrDemon said:
I still think the 987.2 will be a £60k car at some point, it's a very special car, never to be repeated.

prices have not moved in the last year to when I sold mine and I would quess I would get similar money to what I got last year, the £50k car will be £44k or less as we move through to July onwards!

i do also think the 987 spyder good value but also believe it's a slow burner as such a select market and won't be £60k for many years , I also think at some stage it will be worth more than the 981 Spyder but not anytime soon!

 
[h1] [/h1] [h1]The Market Correction[/h1]In every boom everyone wants to think this time it’s different, the good times will go on forever

As appeared in: Online Exclusive—May 2016

Collectable Ferraris, like all commodities, trade on a world-wide market. That market has doubled and doubled again in only five years, a classical bubble run-up. Although some will disagree, we believe that the market for the Enzo-era Ferraris peaked at Monterey in 2014 and is now off by 25%-30%. After a weak five-year recovery, the global economy is slowing down. Economic headwinds include China’s massive bank debt (at 260% of GDP!!) coupled with a stock market, real estate and construction slowdown. In the US debt is now $19 trillion, debt per person is $58,000 and no-one in either party has a viable plan to cut that debt! Looking to Europe, the looming costs of integrating a million plus refugees who do not speak English, or German, or French, or Danish, or Swedish will be massive. Let’s not forget the threat of a possible “Brexit” or the possibility of an Italian banking implosion (thanks to a 21% non-performing loan rate). And the list goes on.

[h3]The numbers tell the story[/h3]Still not convinced that these global Dominos have and will affect the Enzo-Era prices? Let’s look at auction house prices, which so many take as gospel. We will use the Series II 250 PF Cabriolets as examples, since they are usually represented at all the major auctions, and exclude cars with mismatched engines or restoration projects from this short summary. At Monterey in 2014 three no-story 250 PF Cabs crossed the block: 250 PF Cab s/n 1817 sold for $2.1m at Gooding’s, s/n 3807 sold for $2.2 at Rick Cole and s/n 2441 sold for $2.25 at Mecum, establishing a base-line in the $2.18m range.

Fast forward five months to Scottsdale 2015 and only one 250 PF Cab II crossed the block with s/n 3633 selling for $1.7m at RM. Only two months later at Amelia in 2015 a very special multi-platinum 250 PF Cab sold for $2.1m at Gooding’s, outside the sliding price curve. Five months later, at Monterey 2015, s/n 2533 sold for $1.8, a modest pause in the price decline. Moving to 2016, s/n 2153 sold for $1.65m at RM, and two months later s/n 1695 sold for $1.5m at Gooding’s at Amelia. Based on this dataset 250 PF Cab prices are indeed off app. 25%-30%.

FOC_201605_img_06.jpg
Gooding Amelia 2016, PF Cab s/n 1695 [h3]Different Ferrari, different dataset, same trend[/h3]Not convinced? Let’s chart Daytona prices. At Monterey 2014, seven Daytonas crossed the block with s/n 14821 at RM for $945k; s/n 16571 at RM for $963k; s/n 12691 at RM for $775k and s/n 16931 at RM for $880k. S/n 14229 sold at Gooding for $627k; s/n 16943 at Rick Cole for $1,155k and s/n 16565 at Russo sold for $732k. The average price was $868k.

Fast forward five months to Scottsdale 2015. Only two Daytonas crossed the block: s/n 16447 at Gooding’s for $699k and s/n 12923 at Bonham’s for $748k, for an average of $723k. Two months later at Amelia, s/n 16393 was a no-sale at Bonham’s. Five months later, at Monterey 2015, six Daytonas crossed the block with s/n 13361 at RM for $1,045k; s/n 16927 at RM for $792k; s/n 14191 at Gooding’s for $770k; s/n 17607 also at Gooding’s for $715k; 14335 at Bonham’s at $748k and s/n 15757 a no-sale at Mecum for an average of $814k, a modest drop.

Moving to Scottsdale 2016, s/n 15437 at RM sold for $710k, s/n 14819 also at RM for $688k and s/n 14219 at Bonham’s for $1,155k, for a very modest drop to $851k. At Amelia 2016 s/n 15271 at RM sold for $605 and s/n 14345 at Gooding’s was a no sale. While this dataset is less linear than the 250 PF Cabs, based on the most recent sales Daytona prices are off the same 25%-30%.

FOC_201605_img_05.jpg
RM Amelia 2016, Daytona s/n 15271 [h3]The Baby-Boomers are moving on[/h3]I could have used 246 GTs or GTSs or 330 GTCs or almost every other Enzo-era Ferrari. They all show the same trend. As outlined in last month’s article, we’re going through a major generational shift as the baby-boomers leave the collectable market. Those who wanted to own an Enzo-era Ferrari already have. When one gets senior discounts, their priorities turn to business succession, retirement, health issues, kids, grandkids and Mediterranean cruises. Ferraris fall far down the list of priorities. Adding to the global downturn, in the last two years the Euro, the Cdn dollar, the Aussie dollar and the Pound have all dropped against the strong USD. Ferraris are almost always priced in USD so the Europeans, the Brits, the Aussis and Canadians have left the ever-higher Enzo-Era Ferrari price party.

Just as noticeable is the relative lack of buyers. Cars that would have gotten five or more offers two years ago now receive only one or two, and often need price reductions before they sell. The ride had to come to an end at some point, the long-awaited market correction is here.

Moving to the Fiat-era Ferraris, the Boxers followed the same price curve as the Enzo-era cars and peaked in 2014 while the Testarossas, the 308s and 328s flat-lined until they doubled in 2015 in only a year. Alas, they too are now on their way down the price ladder. As for the Montezemolo-era Ferraris, the 550s and 575s, like the 308s and Testarossas, doubled in 2015 and are now on the same price ladder down. The irony is that these newer Ferraris are far better cars than the Enzo-era Ferraris: better built, more reliable, faster, safer, better-handling. If you’re looking to buy a Ferrari to drive, rather than invest in, thanks to the recent price corrections the Fiat-era Ferraris are again becoming buyer-friendly.

FOC_201605_img_02.jpg
512 BB s/n 31453, Bonham’s Goodwood 2015, No Sale [h3]And then there’s the exceptions[/h3]All markets have exceptions and the ultra-low-production, best-of-the-best Enzo-era Ferraris are still strong, as witnessed by the sale of 335 S s/n 0674 which sold for $35.7M at Artcurial in Paris in Feb. to real estate mogul Brian Ross or the sale of 250 SWB California Spyder s/n 2871 at $17.16m at Gooding’s and 400 SA s/n 3949 SA at RM for $4.4m, both purchased at Amelia Island by Laurence Graff, a London-based diamond billionaire.

FOC_201604_img4n.jpg
250 SWB California Spyder s/n 2871 GT, Gooding Amelia Island 2016 Thanks to a new generation of buyers, “collector car” is no longer synonymous with “old car.” The 288s, F40s and F50s are stable in price while the Supercar cars such as the Enzos, 599 SA Apertas, FXXs and LaFerraris just keep climbing. Only last year the LaFerrari listed for $1.4m-$1.5m, but today trade at a staggering $4m.

[h3]Where do we go from here?[/h3]What comes next? Given the rise of the Gen Xers, who’ve made their millions, or billions, in a business model that didn’t exist twenty years ago, the supercars and modern limited-production models are becoming the new class of blue-chip collectable Ferraris. There were simply too many 308s, 328s, Testarossas, 550s and 575Ms built to support their sudden price spike for long. Since collectability is inversely proportional to numbers built, I’ll speculate that the 550 Barchetta and 575M Superamerica and other such modern marvels as the F512M, Scuderia Spider 16M, 458 Speciale A, and 599 GTO could become the new collectables.

FOC_201605_img_04.jpg
The next “collectable”? There will always be significant demand for rare and legendary cars like the Cal Spyder, SWB, and GTO, so I will guess that these prices will just keep climbing, but as the baby boomers leave the market it’s hard to see where the past doubling and re-doubling of prices for more common vintage models like the Daytona and Dino 246 will come from. While these cars will always be an important segment of any collection, any future appreciation will probably be far more modest. They were the supercars of their day, but their appeal today is aesthetic, historic and/or nostalgic. A Gen Xer who grew up with the poster of a F40 or an Enzo on his wall isn’t going to be nearly as interested in a 45-year-old car that’s far slower than the BMW SUV he just bought his wife.

To quote the legendary economist J.K. Galbraith, “The only function of economic forecasting is to make astrology look respectable”. Having said that, my crystal ball tends to short circuit from time to time. I’ve been wrong before, I’ll be wrong in the future. However, centuries of economic history always prove that booms always end and busts eventually turn around. In every boom everyone wants to think this time it’s different, the good times will go on forever. Alas, the party always ends.

I’d like to thank the following: Thor Thorsen, Michael Lynch, Howard Cohen, Stephan Markowski, Bruce and Spencer Trenery and Anthony Moody for their help with this article
 
Interesting read. Doesn't help me much with the 993 S I recently bought, however as it's the car I've always wanted and have no intention of selling for a very long time (or ever), prices can do what they want. :)

Excuse the shameless non-spyder photo diluting the pro-Spyder thread

2im3ym8.jpg


 
tyinsky said:
Interesting read. Doesn't help me much with the 993 S I recently bought, however as it's the car I've always wanted and have no intention of selling for a very long time (or ever), prices can do what they want. :)

Excuse the shameless non-spyder photo diluting the pro-Spyder thread

2im3ym8.jpg
Greatest version of the air cool era and guaranteed collectable classic Porsche and still feels like a modern driver today

Both your cars are stunning examples just wish I had one tucked away too [&:] :ROFLMAO:

 
Well if we are allowing a bit of thread dilution for ex-Spydermen...

My new to me rear engined fixed roof Spyder; joking apart, this beauty hits a high water mark in terms of technology v tradition, it's modern but it's full of old DNA, the steering wheel is full of feel, it is not a big grand tourer and in my biased opinion, it looks just perfect.

Objectively a 981 Cayman walks all over it, as does a 991 but, subjectively, it has the "feel" that makes it everything I was looking for and then some. I have not driven a Porsche since my 987 Spyder that quite managed that (but have not yet driven a 981 Spyder or GT4).

As you can tell, I am quite smitten!

FD5080A8-5D5A-405B-B250-4E7B083BB2DA_zpsvdonrl0t.jpg


 
And I don't blame you for being smitten,Rob-your new car looks fantastic-the house driveway suits it-and you do need those extra 2 seats

even if the kids need to fold their legs in half![:D]-and it's not yellow![;)]

 
rob.kellock said:
Well if we are allowing a bit of thread dilution for ex-Spydermen...

My new to me rear engined fixed roof Spyder; joking apart, this beauty hits a high water mark in terms of technology v tradition, it's modern but it's full of old DNA, the steering wheel is full of feel, it is not a big grand tourer and in my biased opinion, it looks just perfect.

Objectively a 981 Cayman walks all over it, as does a 991 but, subjectively, it has the "feel" that makes it everything I was looking for and then some. I have not driven a Porsche since my 987 Spyder that quite managed that (but have not yet driven a 981 Spyder or GT4).

As you can tell, I am quite smitten!

FD5080A8-5D5A-405B-B250-4E7B083BB2DA_zpsvdonrl0t.jpg



I like your style, I've been considering the same route !



Manual or PDK ??

weekends or DD ??

 
Thanks Andrew.

It's PDK. I would have had either but there are not many to choose from! It actually suits it well.

It will not be a DD. I managed to put over 10k a year on my Cayman but I think I will let my BMW start to do some of the motorway miles to Cornbury House for the time being at least. It will get plenty of use though.

 
Let's hope the 718 Spyder isn't a flat 4 [&:]

Chris Harris drives the Porsche 718 Boxster Out with the old, in with the new… TG’s fresh face meets the latest Boxster

Memories bear heavily on the Porsche family. The most successful sports car company in the world is famously reserved and will only occasionally indulge in self-congratulation. But it is as much shaped by its past failures, as it is by spiralling sales figures and endless Le Mans wins.

Words: Chris Harris

This feature was originally published in Issue 282 of Top Gear magazine.

That is why Porsche reveres the 993 series 911 in a different way from you and I. We see the perfect, compact air-cooled 911; it sees the car that began the current, and still burgeoning, profitable cycle of growth. It views the Boxster the same way. Without the 1996 Boxster and the 996, there would have been no cash surplus to build the Cayenne, and without the vast revenues gleaned from the controversial Pork-truck, you wouldn’t have had any GT3s for the past 10 years. But the Boxster is a linchpin, and Porsche doesn’t mess with the family furniture.

[link=http://www.topgear.com/car-news/big-reads/chris-harris-drives-porsche-718-boxster]
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[/link] Except, it seems, when the EU dictates it must. Last year Porsche turbocharged the base 911 in the name of reduced emissions, and this year the Boxster is clinched by the same EU-mandated gastric band. The only problem being the mid-engined machine cannot accommodate three pairs of opposed cylinders, and must make do with just two. That’s right, the Boxster now has four cylinders – or, as most people would put it, a cheap engine.

It also has a new name, the 718 Boxster, which is an obscure reference to the 1957 718 RSK that would become one of Porsche’s most successful four-cylinder racers. Quite what that has to do with a £62,000 (as tested) roadster is anyone’s guess. Still, if Porsche wants to sully its hard-earned heritage in this way, who are we to stop it?

[blockquote]I’m not going to write the 718 bit again because it irritates me, and you know I’m talking about a Boxster anyway.

[/blockquote]The car I drove was a Boxster S. I’m not going to write the 718 bit again because it irritates me, and you know I’m talking about a Boxster anyway. As ever, there are many different wheel, suspension and other options available, but our car seemed to offer a sensible balance: 19in wheels, the middle suspension setting with an optional limited-slip differential and manual gearbox.

The redesign is clean and cohesive. There’s more tension and geometry than before, and a fancy rump which panders to Porsche’s current badging fetish. It’s undeniably pretty, though beyond that you’ll have to make your own mind whether you like it or not. I think I prefer the previous car – a theme I’m afraid might continue into other aspects of the seven… one, er, Boxster.

I can’t remember being more emotionally confused in advance of twisting a key before: intrigued, fascinated and, well, worried. The starter churns smartly and then, ker-thrum, a little blurt from the sports exhaust and the voice in my head says: “It’s a Beetle”.

Ten seconds later, it says, “Nope, it’s a Subaru” and promptly changes its mind to: “Actually, it’s a 1969 Porsche 912.” Confusion reigns because I’m trying to categorise the noise, and because I cannot square the noise with the appearance of the vehicle. It looks like a Boxster, so it should make Boxster noises, you know, yelpy flat-sixy-sexy, all expensive and Porsche sounding. This parps like a Beetle, or a Scooby, or a 912. Know what? I’m going to leave the noise alone for now; it is, after all, just noise.

The rattly thing out back is a 2497cc, turbocharged flat-four pushing 350bhp and 309lb ft. It weighs around 60kg more than the old engine and really likes 98 octane fuel.

The driving position is unchanged, the clock faces are claimed to be new, but these eyes can’t spot any difference and there is – hooray! – a stick between the seats and three pedals in the footwell. The moment you apply some throttle, the idle warble of the opposed cylinders smooths to a disappointingly accurate impression of an in-line four and the car scoots away. The problem being, your ears are so disappointed that you forget to acknowledge that the relationship between the throttle and clutch is superb for a turbocharged motor – it’s positive and there’s no real sense of delay once you’re above 2,000rpm, and that becomes a positive when the boost arrives immediately and the car scoots off like no Boxster I’ve driven before now.

Let’s be blunt, the change from six to four has turned this car from dainty pugilist to angry slugger – Porsche claims 9.7secs for the 0–100mph sprint, 0.5sec less in the self-shifting PDK version. It’s not long since GT3s were kicking out such times. The 4.4secs zero-to-60 is testament to the new-found urge, as is the fact that what used to feel like overlong intermediate gearing now seems entirely natural – though why you need to make second exceed the motorway legal limit by 7mph is anyone’s guess. Crazy people, those Germans.

[blockquote]Let’s be blunt, the change from six to four has turned this car from dainty pugilist to angry slugger

[/blockquote]It’s not a sexy motor, this. Every adjective you conjure to describe it is unemotional and industrial. It’s a developer of force that elicits respect for the ferocity with which it clips the vehicle down the road, but not the manner in which it does so. There is also a huge difference between its character with the roof up and down. With the cabin covered, it drones at a cruise like a poorly minicab – it really is that unpleasant, but throttle openings bring some relief.

Uncovered, the drone disappears and, with the engine in Sport and the optional sports exhaust engaged, there are times when you find yourself thinking “This isn’t too bad”, and it crackles away on the overrun, but anyone with knowledge of the old car will find themselves tempering any faint praise with the knowledge that in evolutionary terms, changing from being one of the best-sounding cars on sale to one that occasionally sounds OK isn’t great news.

This is now a much, much faster car, though. It pulls all the way from zip to over 7,000rpm, the torque curve is flatter than an Antiguan test wicket and, for something so heavily turbocharged, throttle response really is special. But just not as special as it was in the old six-cylinder car. There is no great turbo wheeshing and whooshing, which is odd because these must be some of the hardest-working turbochargers in the car world. When you back off the accelerator pedal, the actual throttles stay open and the ignition is cut – doing this while keeping the exhaust bypass valve shut keeps pressure in the turbocharger and therefore reduces response time. If you like your rallying, this car isn’t unlike a Subaru WRC with anti-lag. Come to think of it, that popping on a trailing throttle does have a hint of McRae about it.

The gearshift is a work of genius, not too try-hard sporty and irritatingly notchy, just smooth and fluent. The seating position is perfect, the seat itself worked for my stumpy frame and the chassis, blimey, it really is something special. Spring rates are up 10 per cent, the roll bars are thicker and much of the GT4’s rear frame has been copied, but this balance of compliance and roll-resistance is hard to criticise. The test car used the middle of the three suspension options – adaptive dampers with two settings. I only drove the car in the softer setting because it felt stiff enough for UK road use. When will carmakers realise we don’t need our teeth chipped every time we travel fast?

The electric steering rack which caused such controversy in the last Boxster has been revised and is now 10 per cent quicker. Normally I wouldn’t like such a change, but the extra support afforded by the new spring rates makes the change feel less aggressive than it sounds on paper. And the optional torque-vectoring limited-slip diff is a must for anyone who intends to enjoy driving their new Boxster S. Such is the torque available that, even on a dry surface, without the diff the car will spin up an inside rear wheel in second gear. When it’s wet, make that third.

And this is why if you are considering buying one of these missiles, you need to spend some time in it first. If the change to four cylinders has a somewhat stultifying effect on the occupant’s ears, it actually brings the chassis to life. Switch all the systems off and the Boxster wants to slither about all over the place. The clever bit is you can still enjoy all that mid-engined balance and drive the car neatly, but there’s a whole new world of yobbery at your disposal, should you choose it. I rather like this newly discovered genome of poor behaviour, but just as I still can’t square the new noise with the Boxster shape, so I find the concept of one fulfilling the same role as a drifty M3 a little confusing too. Boxsters are dainty and accurate. They cut with guile and panache. It’s like discovering your spinster aunt is a meth addict.

The steel brakes are more than good enough for any kind of road driving – the pedal feel is especially good. The Sport and Sport Plus functions that used to be buttons in the console are now operated by a rotary control on the steering wheel, to make you feel like a 918 driver. The new infotainment package brings a bigger screen and all manner of connectivity, including Apple CarPlay, and for some reason there’s a real-time steering-angle monitor. Nope, no idea either.

Porsche claims some big advances in efficiency with this new engine, up to 13 per cent better fuel economy and reduced CO2 emissions. Driven moderately, I can believe the 26.4 urban and 34.9mpg combined figures, but a word of caution: like any turbocharged engine, if you give it the beans the whole time, those figures tumble and you’ll empty the 64-litre tank at something well under 20mpg. Curiously, the non-S car only has a 54-litre tank, Porsche wants £81 for the larger one that’s standard on the more expensive version. Charity does not begin in Stuttgart.

And so what we have here is a car that has lost a good deal of its emotional appeal. It is faster and, most of the time, more efficient. It has improved in ways that would be lauded in a family saloon car, but which are less worthy of celebration in a machine which is supposed to work more subjective magic. Despite the extra speed, I’d prefer a nearly new six-cylinder car from last year, but here’s the bit that will really stick in the craw of the opposition: even though Porsche has made the new Boxster less desirable than the old Boxster, it is still by far the best car of its type.



 

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