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August Porsche Post Editorial

However you wish, it's no problem for me other than needing to unlock the tech thread which would be better if I had the ability to do so as an admin or whatever then I could post with ease.

I'm out of the office monday but back tuesday PM, could we have something sorted by then?

I agree that it warrants a seperate section so that it doesn't get lost.

Cheers
Simon
 
ORIGINAL: oilman

As for Castrol well, to quote a few products, SLX 0w-30 and RS 0w-40 are true synthetics and RS 10w-60 is not.

I've only just spotted this on rereading the thread. Have I taken this out of context Simon or are you saying that the Castrol RS 10w60 is NOT Fully Synthetic. This is the oil that I use because I have a tweaked Turbocharged car that gets used on track and I thought this oil provided me with the highest level of protection when things get very hot.
 
Paul :[[[

Due to the court case in the states between Mobil and Castrol, you may not always be getting what you think you are so be careful, hydrocracked oils are not synthetics in the true sense of the word as they are molecularly converted petroleum oils, synthetics are not, they are built by chemists in laboratories "brick by brick" and are far superior.

Unfortunately, apart from in Germany, a manufacturer can label the inferior "hydrocracked" oils as synthetics and therefore the only true way of working out the quality is price although even this is not certain as there are some very expensive "hydrocracked" oils out there which are sold on their brand name, Castrol is a good example as they were the Company that Mobil took to court over the labelling issues.

Here is some more reading for those interested:

"HYDROCRACKED" (HC) or MOLECULARLY CONVERTED (MC) BASESTOCKS

There are many petroleum oils available on the market that are so pure and refined, they can now be passed off as synthetics.
They are not made from true synthetic basestocks (at least not in the way that synthetics have traditionally been defined), but they have so little in common with traditional
petroleum basestocks, it is really somewhat silly to classify them as petroleum oils.
Petroleum oil basestocks can be put through a super-extreme refining process called
"hydrocracking". In some cases, as in the case of one particular name-brand "synthetic" oil, these highly refined petroleum basestocks can actually be termed and sold as "synthetic".
It is completely legal for lubricants manufacturers to label these oils as "synthetic".

These are extremely high performance petroleum basestocks, but they are not truly synthetic the way that most people understand the term and will not necessarily perform to the same level as a premium synthetic oil like PAO (poly alfa olefins) or Esters.

Hydrocracking involves changing the actual structure of many of the oil basestock molecules by breaking and fragmenting different molecular structures into far more stable ones. This results in a basestock which has far better thermal and oxidative stability as well as a better ability to maintain proper viscosity through a wide temperature range - when compared to a typical petroleum basestock.

Although contaminants are still present, and these are still petroleum basestocks, contamination is minimal and performance characteristics are high. This process also can turn a wider range of crude oil stock into well-performing petroleum lubricant basestocks.

TYPES OF SYNTHETIC BASESTOCKS

Synthetic basestocks are not all the same. There are few different chemical types that may be used as synthetic basestock fluids. There are only three that are seen commonly in automotive applications:

Polyalphaolefins (PAO's)
These are the most common synthetic basestocks used in the US and in Europe. In fact, many synthetics on the market use PAO basestocks exclusively. PAO's are also called synthesized hydrocarbons and contain absolutely no wax, metals, sulfur or phosphorous. Viscosity indexes for nearly all PAO's are around 150, and they have extremely low pour points (normally below ""40 degrees F).
Although PAO's are also very thermally stable, there are a couple of drawbacks to using PAO basestocks. One drawback to using PAO's is that they are not as oxidatively stable as other synthetics. But, when properly additized, oxidative stability can be achieved.

Diesters
These synthetic basestocks offer many of the same benefits of PAO's but are more varied in structure. Therefore, their performance characteristics vary more than PAO's do. Nevertheless, if chosen carefully, diesters generally provide better pour points than PAO's
(about -60 to -80 degrees F) and are a little more oxidatively stable when properly additized.
Diesters also have very good inherent solvency characteristics which means that not only do they burn cleanly, they also clean out deposits left behind by other lubricants - even without the aid of detergency additives.
They do have one extra benefit though, they are surface-active (electrostatically attracted to metal surfaces), PAO's are not "polar", they are "inert".

Polyolesters
Similar to diesters, but slightly more complex. Greater range of pour points and viscosity indexes than diesters, but some polyolester basestocks will outperform diesters with pour points as low as -90 degrees F and viscosity indexes as high as 160 (without VI additive improvers). They are also "polar".

Other synthetic basestocks exist but are not nearly as widely used as those above - especially in automotive type applications. Most synthetics on the market will use a single PAO basestock combined with an adequate additive package to provide a medium quality synthetic lubricant. However, PAO basestocks are not all the same. Their final lubricating characteristics depend on the chemical reactions used to create them.

Premium quality synthetics will blend more than one "species" of PAO and/or will blend these PAO basestocks with a certain amount of diester or polyolester in order to create a basestock which combines all of the relative benefits of these different basestocks.
 
Thanks Hawkhead.

Correct, it's not a "true" synthetic, it's petroleum based and not built in a laboratory by chemists which is the purists definition and this in general refers to PAO's and Esters that are a superior lubricant. (Esters have been used in the aviation industry for more than 50 years due to their thermal stability and low pour points)

The most important factor related to an oil which is being used in stressed engines is "shear stability". In a wide viscosity multigrade oil like 10w-60 etc it needs bucket loads of VI Improver to reach the sae 60 if it is a petroleum based oil which inherantly makes the oil more prone to thermal breakdown with use. With "true" synthetics, it's the opposite as they need little or no VI Improvers as these products (PAO/Ester) are more thermally stable stand alone therefore less prone to thermal breakdown.

The point here is fairly simple (sorry if I've lost you) a petroleum based 10w-60 will start breaking down almost immediately as the VI Improvers "shear" with use so after a couple of thousand miles it will be effectively a 10w-30 but a "true" synthetic 5w-40 or 10w-50 for example will remain in grade for much longer (9-12000) miles.

Hopefully the article below will either clarify or totally confuse.

SAE has a test called HT/HS (High Temperature/High Shear) currently conducted as test number ASTM D4683 at 150 degC.

The higher the HT/HS number the better because this indicates less shearing. Petroleum oils tend to have low HT/HS numbers which barely meet the standards set by SAE. Because petroleum oils are made with light weight basestocks to begin with, they tend to burn off easily in high temperature conditions which causes deposit formation and oil consumption.
As a result of excessive oil burning and susceptibility to shearing (as well as other factors) petroleum oils must be changed more frequently than synthetics.

Not all multi-viscosity oils shear back so easily. True synthetic oils (PAO's and Esters) contain basically no waxy contamination to cause crystallization and oil thickening at cold temperatures. In addition, synthetic basestocks do not thin out very much as temperatures increase. So, pour point depressants are unnecessary and higher viscosity basestock fluids can be used which will still meet the "W" requirements for pumpability.

Hence, little or no VI improver additive would need to be used to meet the sae 30, 40 or 50 classification while still meeting 0W or 5W requirements.

The end result is that very little shearing occurs within true synthetic oils because they are not "propped up" with viscosity index improvers. There simply is no place to shear back to. In fact, this is easy to prove by just comparing synthetic and petroleum oils of the same grade.

Synthetics will generally have significantly higher HT/HS numbers. Of course, the obvious result is that your oil remains "in grade" for a much longer period of time for better engine protection and longer oil life.

Cheers
Simon
 
ORIGINAL: oilman

Correct, it's not a "true" synthetic,

Bugger [:mad:]

Thanks Simon. What sort of container does your 25litre Silkolene Pro range come in? Will I need to decant it into smaller containers to fill the car or will I need some sort of pump arrangement? I am leaning towards the Pro S 10w50
 
5 litres, 2x5 litres, 4x5 litres and 25 litres all plastic.

Cheers
Simon

Just email for prices
Specs here: http://www.opieoils.co.uk/lubricants.htm
 

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