Building a 400bhp+ 2.5 ltr 944 Turbo

[PSH]

Evening guys today has been a big day..the engine has been fired up for the first time in nearly 4 years and she's a beaut...We installed the Vitesse V-MAF+ chip and MAP sensor and then made up temporary IC and IT pipes .. cranked engine over to check oil pressure first. When happy that all was ok we tried to start the car....nothing?...which had us confused for a minute as we were sure that it would start on a flick of the key. Anyway after a little investigation with the DME relay it seemed that somehow the DME had been fitted into another relay slot t...very strange? However once this was discovered and we tried again the engine fired instantly...I had hardly touched the key when it burst into life....very satisfying to say the least, think the new heavy duty starter motor cable had a big part to play here. Tappets took about 20 secs to fill and then she purred..you will notice that idle is a little eractic and the air leaks....look closely and you'll see why... the dumpvalve isn't connected yet as we need to weld a bung into the IC pipe, same goes for the wastegate boost line to IC pipe and a few other pipes. The 60mm IC pipes themselves will lose the central hoses seen in the video as these will be welded, the IT pipework has a long way to go too as when finished the filter will be tucked away inside the wing. We moved the fuel pressure gauge from the fuel rail to the AFR which sits behind the steering fluid reservoir where it has far more room. Still lots to do, we will decide tomorrow on the final positions for the dumpvalve, wastegate banjo and other hose connections into the IC and IT pipes, these will be welded up early next week. We also need to replace the hose that connects to the idle control valve as it's only a temporary piece of hose which partially collapses under vacuum, makes the idle valve jump..... [link]http://vid1015.photobucket.com/albums/af276/944turbo1/Porsche%20944%20Turbo/20150530_205544_zps9buwqqnn.mp4[/link] getting there folks.... Pete

 

[Diver944]

DME relay - basic schoolboy error, are you sure you know what you're doing Peter ? [] Fantastic news though [] How long do you reckon before she is running? Will you be able to make the Simply Porsche show at Beaulieu next week? I would love to see her running again.

 

[PSH]

ORIGINAL: Diver944 DME relay - basic schoolboy error, are you sure you know what you're doing Peter ? [] Fantastic news though [] How long do you reckon before she is running? Will you be able to make the Simply Porsche show at Beaulieu next week? I would love to see her running again.

haha..very true Paul.... In my defence we did pull the fuse box and all relays checking for voltage drops ( stripping down the fan relay) to see which wires need replacing so I guess the DME didn't make it back to where it belongs...lol I don't think it likely that I can make Beaulie even though I would love too...need to get the old girl through it's MOT first which hopefully will be this week, perhaps Saturday. The list of 'to do things' is still pretty long, brakes need bleeding, fuel filter needs changing, gearbox oil needs changing, the oil will be changed again for more fresh mineral oil once she's driven to my son's garage just before the MOT. All of the bits mentioned in my last post also need finalising and I'm sure there will be others and then I have a few hours running in at various loads/rpm's up and down the motorway to bed the rings in. The good things though are the gearbox is very quite even with the old oil so the noise that i had before that i feared may be one of the GB/torque tube bearings must have been just the clutch release bearing. The new clutch is very nice...mind you this that could be down to me being used to driving my wife's old fiesta but it bites immediately, certainly better than any clutch that I've had in her before. I'm also very happy with the rings, if you recall I have set the gaps a little wider to allow for more heat at higher loads and although this was cleared as 'OK' by the ring/piston manufacturers for the intended output I was still a little nervous about this. All good though...absolutely no blow from the breather and I haven't even bed the rings in yet? bodes well i hope....I'm certainly looking forward to getting her on the open road and then set up on the rollers, this will be the first time that both fuel and ignition is controlled with boost, so interesting times ahead.... Cheers Pete

 

[PSH]

a few more bits done today.. first we removed the passenger plastic inner wing to get at the carbon filter and also the front area for mounting the air filter. First picture shows the oil catchment tank position using the original mounting points for the carbon filter, I made up an alloy bracket with holes to match the mounting positions of the carbon filter in the chassis with slots machined into that for jubilee clips to secure the tank...please forgive the bad quality of the pictures... the sun decided to come out...lol

Next was the air filter..we did a little re-positioning here, removed all of the ducting that connects to the rear of the alternator, this hasn't had it's hose connected for many years and was redundant so no big loss there, we also moved the horns over a little but managed to keep the brake cooling duct in it's original position. Next to this duct there was a blanking plate between it and the inner support bar of the front apron, removing this gave us a nice open area for an air cooling duct tube that feeds from there over the top of the brake duct and directly to the air filter, it's not visible in the picture as it's behind the filter but it should help greatly with extra cool air being fed directly into the filter on top of the cool air already around it having now been removed from the engine bay.

I still need to make up a proper mount to replace the jubilee clip (although this may not be needed once everything is connected) that held the filter in position while we worked out what was required to connect it to the MAF unit, looks like a 15 degree angled 3" silicone hose will do the job nicely so this will be ordered along with a few other bits that need welding to the IC pipes for the dump valve and wastegate boost line... The IC pipes have now been removed for my son to weld them and add the extra bits, we may also add extra temp sensors but may do this at a later date...we also need to set the piggyback map back to zero as per instructions from john (Vitesse) but need the laptop and alas mine has died on me so my son will bring his home to do this before I can drive the car to it's MOT which will be by next weekend... oh and all the vac lines will be increased in size and the connections to the boost controller reversed...more on this later.... Pete

 

[PSH]

Evening guys I think this will be the last update for this thread as the car is now road legal and running like a dream..good emissions at MOT of only 0.5%, not bad for a brand new engine, the wonders of closed loop fuel systems.... ...there will of course be further improvements in the future but for now this will do. ok so today has been another busy day....Latest job list: IC pipes fitted although not fully finished....we need to clean up the welding a little with some back filling and then file/grind to shape and polish...didn't have time today as we needed to be at the MOT station for 2 pm. Dump valve fitted Wastegate connections completed brakes bled and replaced with silicone DOT 5.1...evidently it never needs replacing..we shall see front wheel bearings adjusted Bridgestone SO2 tyres fitted fuel filter replaced A/C charged and working the best ever LED lights fitted to headlights, spot lights and reverse lights... others will be done once they arrive car also had a good clean before the MOT jobs for tomorrow: fit fuel tank breather filter reconnect piggyback after first setting all readings to zero for running in my son has arranged a good body shop guy to machine polish the car...I'll post pictures cluster lights are playing up so will update those with LED's too one bad picture taken late in the day of the engine bay..this is basically how the layout will be for the foreseeable future

Pete

 

[Diver944]

Yeah baby! Nice one Peter well done

 

[T3rra]

Great hopefully see u out and about at some point.

 

[333pg333]

Great work Pete. Must be very satisfying now. Keep updating this thread from time to time. Dyno's etc. Cars are never finished!

 

[PSH]

Thanks Patrick...I will try to add more details to this thread including the current testing....dyno may be a bit in the future as I need to buy bigger injectors and the new Vitesse V-knock system first. More testing done tonight, this time about 150 miles of motorway and A road driving. AFR seems correct in all gears when cruising, and good on boost too, I tested that the over-boost settings worked tonight which is set at 20psi, it's been a long time since the car has had over-boost protection so it's good to have control of it again. It's quick, far quicker than ever before , 400bhp at least according to my son and i agree but it's not just the roar power it's the drive ability too, very responsive, hit's boost quick and when it does the needle on the gauge just flies off the scale and this is without using full throttle. I rarely go above 65% of throttle accept when initially checking the TPS operation and for the initial run when loading the engine to max in high gear but low revs. Cruising at 80mph in 5th is 15% throttle. Currently the APEXI EBC is switched off in as far as boost control is concerned, relying purely on the wastegate with it's new diaphragm and spring and the (IIRC) 4.5mm shim that i machined. The exhaust has a lovely deep rumble when coasting in traffic and burbles nicely on overrun, the surprising thing is that at motorway cruising speeds it's very quite, barely noticeable....wastegate chatters and the dump-valve makes a lovely noise when going up the gears no matter how hard or not the car is driven. No metal from the first oil change which was good to see, discolouration yes which is what we would expect to see while bedding in the rings, the Millers oil was delivered today so as soon as i have a few more miles behind me I can ditch the mineral oil and put the fully synthetic in, unfortunately I can't record the mileage as the odometer decided to stop working after 57 miles, i have a new gear on order and will fit it when we do the dash/center console re-covering and also when we fit new LEDs to the binnacle. This car was always fun to drive and fast, it's now in a different league altogether, the thing is so much has been changed that's it's probably impossible to say which has had the biggest impact, Ok it's got a brand new engine with all of it's internal goodies including the crank scraper etc...and the turbo has been rebuilt, but then there's the 3" custom exhaust, the 3" intake pipework and large K&N sucking only cold air which has an extra duct to give it even more cold direct air, the re-positioning of sensors to better read what's actually going on to get a better response, a 4 BAR MAP sensor..the list goes on. Perhaps my biggest asset is my son, he has set the car up with some things that i don't fully understand...there was a very small flat spot when first opening the throttle if pulling off slowly ( which suits me more these days) not there when applying more throttle, a few minutes with the laptop and it's gone, AFR was a little rich on idle when warm ( cold i expect), that's sorted too. You can probably tell that I'm a happy bunny... .oh and congrats on your victory, I love your car and it's great to see it beating the type of cars that are in the field, very impressive sir..... Pete

 

[nick_968]

Good effort Pete. Glad to see you got it up and running as for while there I thought you might have been out of the game! Interested to know what turbo are you running and what boost?

 

[PSH]

Thanks Nick.....yes it took longer than I had intended but to be fair that was mainly due to me wanting to spend more time on my other main hobby, that being building steam locomotives. The first of which is now finished and running so I then put my efforts back into the car, I couldn't have done it without my son though, my days of getting under cars are fading fast...not as flexible as I used to be, plus he has a far better understanding of getting max performance out of engines, but then he does own his own car performance company..... Regarding turbo and boost...I still have my trusty Lindsey Racing super 61 turbo although it's been rebuilt with new bearings, shaft and impellers...Boost I have currently set to 20 psi, this is pretty high and not what I expect to use on a regular basis, it was mainly done as a test to check that the new overboost function worked as expected, boost gauge is set to give an audible warning at 17 PSi . Once the car is run in and fitted with the larger injectors I will switch the EBC functions back on and set up two maps with different max boost levels probably set A around 15 PSI, not decided on max for B yet, I will see how far we can go without knock on the dyno first... I will try to get to the Ace Cafe soon to show the car to those interested...it's only a 20 minute drive from my home and literally a stone's throw from my son's garage down the road... cheers Pete

 

[JagdHamster]

Fantastic result, well done. Any videos likely in the future? What company does your son own/run; will they put a video on their web-site? Russ

 

[PSH]

Hi Russ Thanks for your kind words....my son does have a website but it's badly neglected due to time, I keep trying to get him to update it but guess he's just too busy..company is RSH Performance. I will try to get some video done of the car at future events and perhaps persuade my son to post them, at least it will show life on his website...lol he has a FB page too which I have updated with my car recently. He's just accepted a commission to build a Focus ST to over 400bhp, he had tweeked this car before to over 300BHP but the guy now wants more, a lot more, seems a waste to me, it's done less than 4000 miles since the last upgrade over 4 years ago...money talks though... Pete

 

[blade7]

Plenty of people reckon the Lindsey 61 is too big for a 2.5, happy to read it works just fine.

 

[nick_968]

ORIGINAL: blade7 Plenty of people reckon the Lindsey 61 is too big for a 2.5, happy to read it works just fine.

Not just any 2.5 though is it. If you want to go for higher power then you need a compressor that will push more air. Bottom end will be sacrificed but you can't have your cake and eat it now can you

 

[nick_968]

ORIGINAL: PSH Thanks Nick.....yes it took longer than I had intended but to be fair that was mainly due to me wanting to spend more time on my other main hobby, that being building steam locomotives. The first of which is now finished and running so I then put my efforts back into the car, I couldn't have done it without my son though, my days of getting under cars are fading fast...not as flexible as I used to be, plus he has a far better understanding of getting max performance out of engines, but then he does own his own car performance company..... Regarding turbo and boost...I still have my trusty Lindsey Racing super 61 turbo although it's been rebuilt with new bearings, shaft and impellers...Boost I have currently set to 20 psi, this is pretty high and not what I expect to use on a regular basis, it was mainly done as a test to check that the new overboost function worked as expected, boost gauge is set to give an audible warning at 17 PSi . Once the car is run in and fitted with the larger injectors I will switch the EBC functions back on and set up two maps with different max boost levels probably set A around 15 PSI, not decided on max for B yet, I will see how far we can go without knock on the dyno first... I will try to get to the Ace Cafe soon to show the car to those interested...it's only a 20 minute drive from my home and literally a stone's throw from my son's garage down the road... cheers Pete

So roughly what rpm are you making 15 psi in top gear? I take it you are running the '61 with a number 8 housing? Do you know what turbine wheel you have in there? If my car is running the day you go I will try to get down to take a look

 

[blade7]

ORIGINAL: nick_968

ORIGINAL: blade7 Plenty of people reckon the Lindsey 61 is too big for a 2.5, happy to read it works just fine.

Not just any 2.5 though is it. If you want to go for higher power then you need a compressor that will push more air. Bottom end will be sacrificed but you can't have your cake and eat it now can you

With an M-tune and 3" exhaust I think it would be possible to achieve something similar, if not there are more options...

 

[PSH]

ORIGINAL: blade7 Plenty of people reckon the Lindsey 61 is too big for a 2.5, happy to read it works just fine.

hmmm....not sure who these people are but they're wrong, it does need setting up though with at least a MAF tune done by someone who knows their business. Also there are some out there using the bigger 75 on a 2.5 engine, iirc Rick's car had that turbo and it had plenty of power.

 

[PSH]

ORIGINAL: nick_968

ORIGINAL: PSH Thanks Nick.....yes it took longer than I had intended but to be fair that was mainly due to me wanting to spend more time on my other main hobby, that being building steam locomotives. The first of which is now finished and running so I then put my efforts back into the car, I couldn't have done it without my son though, my days of getting under cars are fading fast...not as flexible as I used to be, plus he has a far better understanding of getting max performance out of engines, but then he does own his own car performance company..... Regarding turbo and boost...I still have my trusty Lindsey Racing super 61 turbo although it's been rebuilt with new bearings, shaft and impellers...Boost I have currently set to 20 psi, this is pretty high and not what I expect to use on a regular basis, it was mainly done as a test to check that the new overboost function worked as expected, boost gauge is set to give an audible warning at 17 PSi . Once the car is run in and fitted with the larger injectors I will switch the EBC functions back on and set up two maps with different max boost levels probably set A around 15 PSI, not decided on max for B yet, I will see how far we can go without knock on the dyno first... I will try to get to the Ace Cafe soon to show the car to those interested...it's only a 20 minute drive from my home and literally a stone's throw from my son's garage down the road... cheers Pete

So roughly what rpm are you making 15 psi in top gear? I take it you are running the '61 with a number 8 housing? Do you know what turbine wheel you have in there? If my car is running the day you go I will try to get down to take a look

No idea about rpm in top at that amount of boost, i would have to measure that on a dyno as I would be going way to fast in top for our roads....in fact i suspect that the gearing would have maxed out at iirc around 174mph long before i ran out of power, i can say though that whatever it is she'll get their pretty damn fast... I would have to double check turbine housing, my minds a little fussy on that, my son will know though, turbine wheel too... Cheers Pete EDIT: BTW I covered another 200 miles tonight, engine is still beating soundly....it's not that i expect it to go bang, but i do think that it will be a while before I stop worrying about anything going wrong, after all I did build it myself and at a time when my brain wasn't exactly working as well as it should have been...it's much better now though and so far it seems that i must have done things right...right now she's pulling like a train, she does need setting up though now that the piggy back is re-enabled as all of the fueling has been set at zero which I think is trying to override the main chip? i need to log what she's doing at a given rpm and boost as i thought that the overboost may be coming on quicker than i had set it but on looking at the recorded info on the stepped boost gauge it's showing that i hit over 21 PSI so I guess the overboost is doing it's job...what i find hard to believe is just how quick the turbo spools up to that amount of boost and wants to just keep on going...it will be interesting to see how far i can go without knock when the car is on the dyno...interesting times ahead.... Pete

 

[blade7]

ORIGINAL: PSH

ORIGINAL: blade7 Plenty of people reckon the Lindsey 61 is too big for a 2.5, happy to read it works just fine.

hmmm....not sure who these people are but they're wrong, it does need setting up though with at least a MAF tune done by someone who knows their business. Also there are some out there using the bigger 75 on a 2.5 engine, iirc Rick's car had that turbo and it had plenty of power.

Mainly on Rennlist where they're all loving the newer GT turbo's. I'm all for using a LR 61 as I've got a new one in the garage. I would have ordered an M-tune already but it seems some are having set up issues.