Given that no board minutes have been published for 6 months, including the AGM, and there is no calendar of meetings, I wouldn't holding my breath for any support from the board.
Cayman 718 GPF Failure
- Thread starter Wrightrubber
- Start date
The club need to give details of the best number to call, the best person to talk to in the head office in the UK.
Also, doesn’t the head of Porsche write a few column inches in the Porsche Post?
That must be a good contact initially, and she can then open correct points of contact.
Does this poor design apply to other markets, especially the USA?
For once, glad I have a 987.2
Also, doesn’t the head of Porsche write a few column inches in the Porsche Post?
That must be a good contact initially, and she can then open correct points of contact.
Does this poor design apply to other markets, especially the USA?
For once, glad I have a 987.2
You’d hope that the Club would be able to provide guidance on the most appropriate contact in this case Graham, but that person will have to be sufficiently convinced and committed to run with it and be prepared to take-up the matter with Stuttgart.
I’m not sure if the US cars are fitted with the GPF? Probably not because I can’t see the Americans accepting such a dire situation without complaining, and Porsche would be quick to act to avoid a class action.
Jeff
I’m not sure if the US cars are fitted with the GPF? Probably not because I can’t see the Americans accepting such a dire situation without complaining, and Porsche would be quick to act to avoid a class action.
Jeff
There is of course nothing stopping anyone from identifying relevant individuals in Porsche Cars GB and Porsche AG and contacting them directly about this issue so if you think that is appropriate feel free to carry on.
I offered to raise this with the Board as I think it would be worth seeing if the right person can have a quiet word in the right ear to try and unlock the current situation. It may work, it may not but there is nothing to lose by trying. On that basis I will drop them a line to see if anything can be done.
I offered to raise this with the Board as I think it would be worth seeing if the right person can have a quiet word in the right ear to try and unlock the current situation. It may work, it may not but there is nothing to lose by trying. On that basis I will drop them a line to see if anything can be done.
As mentioned I have sent a note to the Board to request that they review this situation and advise of any potential action they could take to help.
At this point I would suggest that we give them the time and space to do this before considering any alternative approach.
At this point I would suggest that we give them the time and space to do this before considering any alternative approach.
All, I have had a response from the Board and they have agreed to look at this in more detail with a view of approaching Porsche Cars GB.
On that basis I will liaise with Dave in the background to agree the best way forward from his perspective and hopefully we will be able to make some progress.
On that basis I will liaise with Dave in the background to agree the best way forward from his perspective and hopefully we will be able to make some progress.
Hi Andy,
More than happy to also support if needed.
Dave has my number as we have been in discussions daily for the past 8 to 10 weeks.
Perhaps I might add my perspective as RS and someone who has been in contact with Dave from the outset. We are up to 279 posts and 16000+ views, so I think it fair to say it has got people's attention, and rightly so.
Firstly, our club objective, put simply, is to help members enjoy their cars and, if necessary, support them in resolving issues. Through Dave's efforts and research, every GPF related case that has come to our notice has received that support and continues to have it. Large bills have been avoided and fixes put in place but now, after some months, it is becoming clear that these fixes are not resolving the issue in many cases.
As we escalate this case we need to be clear what we want from Porsche. The current position seems to be that Porsche GB would like to keep things on a case by case basis. Problem arises, problem gets fixed, = no problem. And if this were the case at no cost to the owner we probably would not have this thread. After all it is appears to affect a relative small proportion of 718 production.
The fact that the problem is not being fixed is a main cause for escalation. The key points within that are:
- owners are being given the run around by the OPC - there is no consistent approach and no confidence in their expertise on the subject.
- OPC's assessment of a blocked GPF is at best the identification of the result. At no point have they diagnosed the cause of the problem.
- OPC's reliance on the PIWIS and other diagnostic tools is flawed, as evidenced by the reports that Dave has studied. Some of the results are nonsense.
- Tests that might help in the diagnosis are not being done - differential pressure, exhaust back pressure, AOS, etc. In some cases the OPC's do not have the tools, in other cases they are not part of the process. (e.g. when they have replaced the GPF they do not do a VAL report to look at the results, they simply go by the fact that the CEL light goes out and stays out)
- recent cases where new GPF's have been fitted are showing high contaimination of the GPF's after only one or two thousand miles. This is at present unresolved but indications are that the OPC solution would be to just keep replacing the GPF every time it gets blocked, and expect the owner to pay. This is unacceptable.
- something must have changed at the end of 2019, as we have no 2020 or later cars on record with this GPF problem. What are the changes and would the updated components be a fix for the 2019 cars. We know that both AOS and DPS have been updated.
Finally, from contact with various technicians, there is a suspicion that there are many more cases that have not come to our attention. Are some being 'fixed' under warranty, are some owners paying up?
My assessment of what is required from escalation is:
1. Contact with Porsche GB's technical department to review specific cases and answer the questions that have arisen from Dave Hitch's research and analysis.
2. An accurate cause and effect diagnosis as to what is actually happening to these cars
3. Identification of the full solution to the problem that resolves it once and for all
4. Clarity as to which cars are affected, both to alert owners and remove the cloud over other 718's which are nlikely to have this issue.
Let's keep focussed on this objective.
Firstly, our club objective, put simply, is to help members enjoy their cars and, if necessary, support them in resolving issues. Through Dave's efforts and research, every GPF related case that has come to our notice has received that support and continues to have it. Large bills have been avoided and fixes put in place but now, after some months, it is becoming clear that these fixes are not resolving the issue in many cases.
As we escalate this case we need to be clear what we want from Porsche. The current position seems to be that Porsche GB would like to keep things on a case by case basis. Problem arises, problem gets fixed, = no problem. And if this were the case at no cost to the owner we probably would not have this thread. After all it is appears to affect a relative small proportion of 718 production.
The fact that the problem is not being fixed is a main cause for escalation. The key points within that are:
- owners are being given the run around by the OPC - there is no consistent approach and no confidence in their expertise on the subject.
- OPC's assessment of a blocked GPF is at best the identification of the result. At no point have they diagnosed the cause of the problem.
- OPC's reliance on the PIWIS and other diagnostic tools is flawed, as evidenced by the reports that Dave has studied. Some of the results are nonsense.
- Tests that might help in the diagnosis are not being done - differential pressure, exhaust back pressure, AOS, etc. In some cases the OPC's do not have the tools, in other cases they are not part of the process. (e.g. when they have replaced the GPF they do not do a VAL report to look at the results, they simply go by the fact that the CEL light goes out and stays out)
- recent cases where new GPF's have been fitted are showing high contaimination of the GPF's after only one or two thousand miles. This is at present unresolved but indications are that the OPC solution would be to just keep replacing the GPF every time it gets blocked, and expect the owner to pay. This is unacceptable.
- something must have changed at the end of 2019, as we have no 2020 or later cars on record with this GPF problem. What are the changes and would the updated components be a fix for the 2019 cars. We know that both AOS and DPS have been updated.
Finally, from contact with various technicians, there is a suspicion that there are many more cases that have not come to our attention. Are some being 'fixed' under warranty, are some owners paying up?
My assessment of what is required from escalation is:
1. Contact with Porsche GB's technical department to review specific cases and answer the questions that have arisen from Dave Hitch's research and analysis.
2. An accurate cause and effect diagnosis as to what is actually happening to these cars
3. Identification of the full solution to the problem that resolves it once and for all
4. Clarity as to which cars are affected, both to alert owners and remove the cloud over other 718's which are nlikely to have this issue.
Let's keep focussed on this objective.
Hi John,
Thanks for this, very helpful.
To be clear my intention is to assist you, Dave and all our members who appear to have been impacted by this issue and to see if we can encourage Porsche Cars GB and Porsche AG to be a little more open in their dialogue and assistance and ultimately to try and come to a satisfactory conclusion.
To this end I dropped a note to the Board on Sunday to seek support from them regarding this issue and Nick responded later that day to confirm that they would be happy to do so. He also asked for a summary of the current situation which you appear to have provided above.
With regards to next steps, I am equally happy to stand aside and let you and Dave continue if you think this would be more appropriate or continue supporting you if you think that would be helpful. Please let me know your thoughts but either way we need to provide the summary to the Board in order for them to pick this up and start the dialogue with Porsche.
Thanks John
Andy G.
Thanks for this, very helpful.
To be clear my intention is to assist you, Dave and all our members who appear to have been impacted by this issue and to see if we can encourage Porsche Cars GB and Porsche AG to be a little more open in their dialogue and assistance and ultimately to try and come to a satisfactory conclusion.
To this end I dropped a note to the Board on Sunday to seek support from them regarding this issue and Nick responded later that day to confirm that they would be happy to do so. He also asked for a summary of the current situation which you appear to have provided above.
With regards to next steps, I am equally happy to stand aside and let you and Dave continue if you think this would be more appropriate or continue supporting you if you think that would be helpful. Please let me know your thoughts but either way we need to provide the summary to the Board in order for them to pick this up and start the dialogue with Porsche.
Thanks John
Andy G.
Thanks Andy.
I appreciate it being raised with Nick, for the Board. I think it is important to set out what we want the Board to actually do, which is to facilitate contact with Porsche GB so that the issues can be discussed, and that we need to bring Dave Hitch to that table and get some answers as described above. Please carry on with your dialogue. I am happy to provide any additional information that is needed to make this happen.
As an aside, one feature of this issue is the poor treatment that some of our members have received from OPC's. Some might be rooted in the innability of the OPC's to provide information that is requested - a defence tactic, but other aspects are down to simple 'we know best' arrogance. But I dont think this is limited to this matter so, for the moment, we focus on the technical solutions.
Thank you to everyone involved, especially to those who have been in contact with Dave about their cars.
John
I appreciate it being raised with Nick, for the Board. I think it is important to set out what we want the Board to actually do, which is to facilitate contact with Porsche GB so that the issues can be discussed, and that we need to bring Dave Hitch to that table and get some answers as described above. Please carry on with your dialogue. I am happy to provide any additional information that is needed to make this happen.
As an aside, one feature of this issue is the poor treatment that some of our members have received from OPC's. Some might be rooted in the innability of the OPC's to provide information that is requested - a defence tactic, but other aspects are down to simple 'we know best' arrogance. But I dont think this is limited to this matter so, for the moment, we focus on the technical solutions.
Thank you to everyone involved, especially to those who have been in contact with Dave about their cars.
John
Thanks John, I think we're aligned.
I think it might be worth the 3 of us initially having a conversation to make sure we're all clear on the key points and agree the approach you would like to take.
I'm about tomorrow and Thursday if you want to have an initial conversation. Drop me a PM with your details if this would be convenient.
Thanks
Andy G.
I think it might be worth the 3 of us initially having a conversation to make sure we're all clear on the key points and agree the approach you would like to take.
I'm about tomorrow and Thursday if you want to have an initial conversation. Drop me a PM with your details if this would be convenient.
Thanks
Andy G.
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