Cayman 718 GPF Failure
- Thread starter Wrightrubber
- Start date
Hi Jeff,
Without Prejudice
Sorry, we are collecting information on these cars, and hoping that they will not suffer from any of the issues our 2019 cars seem to be having.
Obviously Porsche will not even speak to us, so we can only ask owners to confirm if the light is present when the ignition is switched on.
We have asked Porsche Technical to provide us with a photo of a dashboard showing this light working, hasn't happened yet.
If they could it would certainly stop all this negativity towards these cars.
After all, these cars are brilliant, it's just a shame that Porsche technical seem to be in the background, so to speak.
Thankfully I have on file a copy of an email sent to one of our drivers, that had a new GPF fitted this year, that was written as follows. This email was sent by Customer Care, this is one paragraph from the email.
The fault codes which were present during the investigation on your vehicle did allow the centre, and our technical and warranty teams to identify the fault.
The fault you experienced was due to a manufacturing defect.
I have the full Val report on this vehicle, and the only code in the engine management system was P242F (particulate filter ash load to high).
It's taken nearly a year to get this conformation in writing, bearing in mind our drivers have been told its their fault.
Wrong oil, and driving style have been the main excuses, for long delays in getting authorisation, customers having to chase the dealers for updates, and their cars being off the road for far to long.
We even had a dealer who said if the driver would mark them excellent on a customer survey, that would help to get authority guicker from Porsche to fit a GPF filter.
We are still waiting for that authority.
Sorry to go on, but we currently have 19 thousand views on this subject, so we need this fault on these cars fixing.
David
Without Prejudice
Sorry, we are collecting information on these cars, and hoping that they will not suffer from any of the issues our 2019 cars seem to be having.
Obviously Porsche will not even speak to us, so we can only ask owners to confirm if the light is present when the ignition is switched on.
We have asked Porsche Technical to provide us with a photo of a dashboard showing this light working, hasn't happened yet.
If they could it would certainly stop all this negativity towards these cars.
After all, these cars are brilliant, it's just a shame that Porsche technical seem to be in the background, so to speak.
Thankfully I have on file a copy of an email sent to one of our drivers, that had a new GPF fitted this year, that was written as follows. This email was sent by Customer Care, this is one paragraph from the email.
The fault codes which were present during the investigation on your vehicle did allow the centre, and our technical and warranty teams to identify the fault.
The fault you experienced was due to a manufacturing defect.
I have the full Val report on this vehicle, and the only code in the engine management system was P242F (particulate filter ash load to high).
It's taken nearly a year to get this conformation in writing, bearing in mind our drivers have been told its their fault.
Wrong oil, and driving style have been the main excuses, for long delays in getting authorisation, customers having to chase the dealers for updates, and their cars being off the road for far to long.
We even had a dealer who said if the driver would mark them excellent on a customer survey, that would help to get authority guicker from Porsche to fit a GPF filter.
We are still waiting for that authority.
Sorry to go on, but we currently have 19 thousand views on this subject, so we need this fault on these cars fixing.
David
Hi Jeff
I have a MY2020 Base Cayman.
The emissions control warning light (also called the Check Engine light) should appear in the Tachometer when the ignition is turned on and then disappear when the engine is started. That is assuming all is well. This corresponds to what I see on my car. (See page 121 - 122 of the manual and the image below).
Also see page 273 of the manual (and below) regarding other symbols/warnings/messages that should appear in the event of issues with the GPF depending on their severity. Page 272 also describes other messages and symbols associated with the Check Engine light that might also appear. As far as I am aware none of these lights/warnings/symbols shown on pages 272 and 273 should appear unless the emissions system has a problem. But I'm willing to be proved wrong.
Hi Alan,
As David has mentioned I would suggest going to a dealer to ask them to show you this warning light working, as we are yet to find anyone that has seen it.If they can that would tell us that Porsche had changed something between 2019 and 2020…
The scary thing for me is the radio silence from both Porsche GB and ultimately the Porsche Club which are apparently challenging Porsche GB on this topic.. ?
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Thanks Alan. Interesting that the particle filter warning light isn’t shown in the display, and I assume that you don’t get it when the ignition is turned-on, even if all the other warning lights are illuminated? Although that did seem strange to me, I checked on my GPF-equipped GR Toyota and it’s the same, so apparently not necessarily unusual in vehicle circles.
It appears that the only time the filter warning light is illuminated is when there’s a problem, but as has been reported, unfortunately that isn’t happening.
Jeff
Hi Alan,
Without Prejudice
Thanks for the info, usually the engine management light is seperate to the GPF light.
Enclose a photo of a GPF light on a Kia 2019 model year, and it's handbook instructions when the light comes on.
This light comes comes on when the soot load is high and requires a driver regeneration.
On the Porsche vehicles we have seen the engine management light comes on to tell us the GPF is blocked with ASH, and needs replacing.
Slightly different in a wrong way.
Dave
Without Prejudice
Thanks for the info, usually the engine management light is seperate to the GPF light.
Enclose a photo of a GPF light on a Kia 2019 model year, and it's handbook instructions when the light comes on.
This light comes comes on when the soot load is high and requires a driver regeneration.
On the Porsche vehicles we have seen the engine management light comes on to tell us the GPF is blocked with ASH, and needs replacing.
Slightly different in a wrong way.
Dave
Attachments
Totally agree!
Well, I have had a conversation with Porsche GB yesterday to challenge what they had put in writing to me, which was: 'We are writing to confirm that the GPF is indeed listed on the exhaustive wear and tear list for the extended warranty' I asked them to provide evidence of this exhaustive list where it states the GPF is not covered. They sent me this:
Below is an exhaustive list of items commonly subject to wear and tear, which if fail due to wear and tear will not be covered by Your Policy:• Wiper blades• Tyres• Brake pads and brake discs• Shock absorber• Clutch disc and clutch pressure plate• Drive belt including deflection and tensioning roller• Spark plugs• Batteries (incl. high-voltage batteries)• Expansion tank PDCC• Refrigerant• All bulbs (excluding Xenon and LED lamps)• All filters, fluids, oils, and greases.
They said it is a filter and all filters are not covered!!
I said that a reasonable person would read that as - All Filters, Fluids, Oils and Greases as consumable filters such as Air, Oil, Pollen and would be subject to checks and replacement at service.
The GPF is not a consumable filter, it is not checked at any service interval and if it is to be classed as a wear and tear item you cannot replace it without replacing the catalytic converter. The GPF doesn't have an individual part number, the catalytic converter has a part number which includes the filter!
The crux of the matter is the Filter Warning Light that tells the driver it requires a regeneration DOES NOT WORK!
Can the Club please ask Porsche, through the committee to confirm that this Filter Light is present on the dash and will illuminate as it should when a regeneration is required, because to date nobody has seen it and this is fundamental in solving this situation that Porsche seem to think is our problem!
Mark
Below is an exhaustive list of items commonly subject to wear and tear, which if fail due to wear and tear will not be covered by Your Policy:• Wiper blades• Tyres• Brake pads and brake discs• Shock absorber• Clutch disc and clutch pressure plate• Drive belt including deflection and tensioning roller• Spark plugs• Batteries (incl. high-voltage batteries)• Expansion tank PDCC• Refrigerant• All bulbs (excluding Xenon and LED lamps)• All filters, fluids, oils, and greases.
They said it is a filter and all filters are not covered!!
I said that a reasonable person would read that as - All Filters, Fluids, Oils and Greases as consumable filters such as Air, Oil, Pollen and would be subject to checks and replacement at service.
The GPF is not a consumable filter, it is not checked at any service interval and if it is to be classed as a wear and tear item you cannot replace it without replacing the catalytic converter. The GPF doesn't have an individual part number, the catalytic converter has a part number which includes the filter!
The crux of the matter is the Filter Warning Light that tells the driver it requires a regeneration DOES NOT WORK!
Can the Club please ask Porsche, through the committee to confirm that this Filter Light is present on the dash and will illuminate as it should when a regeneration is required, because to date nobody has seen it and this is fundamental in solving this situation that Porsche seem to think is our problem!
Mark
100% with you on this Mark -
My understanding is that the CAT is not a wear and tear item , again this needs Porsche clarification.
If it is the case that the CAT is covered under warranty how can a filter within a filter not be ?
How do you then confirm which filter is failing if technically it’s one item.
3 simple questions need to be answered -
1. Where are the soot level lights on the dash and do they actually work ?
2. Why are the GPF filters failing it’s quite clear it’s either got to be a manufacturing failure with the part or are they actually not full and the software programme is failing ?
3.Why are the warranties clearly different based on country even though the car comes from the same factory in Germany ?
Oh sorry one more question -
Why is such a Brand loyal customer base having to work so hard for the truth…….?
Over the last 16 pages of this topic there is clearly enough information from owners to get the answers and solution needed
Spot on Paul!
I first posted on this subject on 29th May 2023, nearly 17 months ago and we are still looking for the answers, are Porsche just hoping it goes away? Dave has provided so much technical information and helped lots of owners get out of a very worrying situation when you are told it's going to cost £7500 and it's your fault for not driving it properly (I was told if your journey is less than half an hour don't use the car it's doing it no good!!)or putting the wrong oil in! They are replacing the filters without any explanation and technical solution to the problem, which means that owners are faced with dealing with the same problem in the future, by just replacing the filter it is not solving the problem. The worrying thing is as more and more cars come forward, and they will, it's going to be a much bigger problem.WE NEED SOME ANSWERS.
I first posted on this subject on 29th May 2023, nearly 17 months ago and we are still looking for the answers, are Porsche just hoping it goes away? Dave has provided so much technical information and helped lots of owners get out of a very worrying situation when you are told it's going to cost £7500 and it's your fault for not driving it properly (I was told if your journey is less than half an hour don't use the car it's doing it no good!!)or putting the wrong oil in! They are replacing the filters without any explanation and technical solution to the problem, which means that owners are faced with dealing with the same problem in the future, by just replacing the filter it is not solving the problem. The worrying thing is as more and more cars come forward, and they will, it's going to be a much bigger problem.WE NEED SOME ANSWERS.
But quickly after those, you need the solution.
Perhaps Porsche do not yet have one, so they will delay to buy the time to develop the fix.
But first you do need to fully understand the failure mode.
Why would anyone buy a post 2019 Cayman if they are aware of this issue?
Perhaps Porsche do not yet have one, so they will delay to buy the time to develop the fix.
But first you do need to fully understand the failure mode.
Why would anyone buy a post 2019 Cayman if they are aware of this issue?
The Check particle filter warning is not a light on the main instrument display when you switch on.
It should display in the Multi-function display only when there is an error.
The image below is from https://manual.porsche.com/#/wpi/982-2024-20230619-10-RDW-1.0.3/en_GB/warnings/show/topic.
Hi Ian
Without Prejudice
The hand book is well written explaining what happens when a high soot value needs driver intervention.
It's a shame the car doesn’t put on the light, or a message. In all the cars I have dealt with, in the last year no light or message has been seen.
We have unfortunately at the moment a major emission function error on the cars we are dealing with.
We are expecting the soot warning light to work, Porsche technical are insisting it should work, but sadly it doesn't.
But when we look at the soot calculated and measured values, there never seems to be much in, most of the time you only see a reading in the measured section and thats usually 0.00 %.
The only sensor that can trigger a regeneration is the differential pressure sensor and that always shows a very low differential pressure readings.The regeneration will only happen with high soot levels and high readings.
Yet we are being told the exhaust is blocked. A blocked exhaust would show alot higher differential pressure readings.
The only light that warns the driver of an issue is the engine warning light.
This comes on with a permitted to drive message, and a visit to the dealer, if the fault code is P242F , then a potential bill of £7,500.00 is discussed.
We then have to fight with the dealers and Porsche technical to get them to cover this cost, on the grounds this is a manufacturing defect, which can take us months.
This trouble code is nothing to do with soot, its the oil ash/loading thats reached 100%, and when it comes on its to late to save the GPF.
Which is absolutely ridiculous bearing in mind the low mileages covered on these cars.
We have asked all the Porsche service departments who have dealt with our cars to show us this light working, still waiting, its been a year now.
Sorry for going on but all this information is crucial to our argument that something is sadly wrong with our cars.
We just need an acknowledgement from Porsche Cars that they are looking into this problem on their cars, and we don't need to worry.
Dave
Without Prejudice
The hand book is well written explaining what happens when a high soot value needs driver intervention.
It's a shame the car doesn’t put on the light, or a message. In all the cars I have dealt with, in the last year no light or message has been seen.
We have unfortunately at the moment a major emission function error on the cars we are dealing with.
We are expecting the soot warning light to work, Porsche technical are insisting it should work, but sadly it doesn't.
But when we look at the soot calculated and measured values, there never seems to be much in, most of the time you only see a reading in the measured section and thats usually 0.00 %.
The only sensor that can trigger a regeneration is the differential pressure sensor and that always shows a very low differential pressure readings.The regeneration will only happen with high soot levels and high readings.
Yet we are being told the exhaust is blocked. A blocked exhaust would show alot higher differential pressure readings.
The only light that warns the driver of an issue is the engine warning light.
This comes on with a permitted to drive message, and a visit to the dealer, if the fault code is P242F , then a potential bill of £7,500.00 is discussed.
We then have to fight with the dealers and Porsche technical to get them to cover this cost, on the grounds this is a manufacturing defect, which can take us months.
This trouble code is nothing to do with soot, its the oil ash/loading thats reached 100%, and when it comes on its to late to save the GPF.
Which is absolutely ridiculous bearing in mind the low mileages covered on these cars.
We have asked all the Porsche service departments who have dealt with our cars to show us this light working, still waiting, its been a year now.
Sorry for going on but all this information is crucial to our argument that something is sadly wrong with our cars.
We just need an acknowledgement from Porsche Cars that they are looking into this problem on their cars, and we don't need to worry.
Dave
Had my new Cayman Style Edition since June 23 from Porsche Leeds. I have now covered 10,000 miles and never seen the GPF warning light in the Multi-Function display. I would have expected to see it as I have been in several long traffic queues. I'm convinced it's not working. The only strange thing I get now and again is the additional acoustic signal sounds which accompany certain warning and information messages. No messages or symbols appear on the Multi- Function display. Maybe it's the GPF initial warning?
Not read all the pages on this thread so this maybe an “go read it” question but is there any engagement or input from the register secretaries or other associated members. ?
I think this merits some PCGB “official” input.
It’s a very active, interesting and concerning thread and topic.
Are there details on the PCGB database that the officials can access to poll membership to see if anyone has any input on the questions raised here. ?
I think this merits some PCGB “official” input.
It’s a very active, interesting and concerning thread and topic.
Are there details on the PCGB database that the officials can access to poll membership to see if anyone has any input on the questions raised here. ?
Morning Michael,
What year is your car please, and engine size, and does it have full dealer services
Thanks Dave
What year is your car please, and engine size, and does it have full dealer services
Thanks Dave
Right Dave. My car is year 2023 purchased new in June 14th 2023. The first service is due in June 2025. The only time I visited Porsche Leeds was to have a tyre replaced and they said everything was correct with the car.
Forgot to say it's a 2 litre.
Paul,
Although this post emanated on this forum, with 19k+ views you’d have to think that many of these were Boxster owners, but I don’t know if John has had any formal contact with Tracy on this matter.
However, both John and Dave have been in contact with PCGB officials, but I don’t know if any progress has been made in approaching Porsche GB to resolve this issue. Hopefully we’ll get some feedback soon from them.
Jeff
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