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Cayman 718 GPF Failure

Hi everyone,

Without Prejudice

I am still getting nowhere with Porsche GB in getting them to show me the light or warning message when a regeneration is required on my car. I sent them an e-mail requesting an appointment with their Technical Department and I would travel the 2 1/2 hour journey to Reading and pay for the diagnostic check and they could show me the light/message as detailed in the owners manual. I received a reply, which I have attached...... what a complete and utter joke, I thought Reading was their Flagship Centre!!! It would not be possible to meet with their Technical Department because 'they aren't customer facing'. They have referred me back to my local OPC and they have contradicted what Porsche GB Technical Department had previously told me should happen, with the light/message. I think it is absolutely obvious they know that it doesn't work and keep dodging the issue....well guess what I'm not going away!!

Mark
 

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Many moons ago I had an issue with a previous car (MINI) and I wrote an email to AutoExpress. A couple of days after I wrote to them they gave me a call to ask some more questions. A week after that I was asked if a photographer could come and take a couple of photos for the magazine.

A week after the magazine was published I was contacted by BMW MINI UK asking if I would be willing to meet at a dealership of my choosing to have a discussion with the head of their engine development that was flying in to discuss the issue.

They asked me to leave my car for a few days while they ran some diagnostics and low and behold the issue was resolved.

Maybe it's time to take it to the press.
 
Not a bad idea Dan. Sometimes exposure to potential adverse press publicity is sufficient to overcome corporate stonewalling!

Jeff
 
Indeed, a good idea from Dan.
As you are all getting nowhere with Porsche then time to work around that.

Porsche (and these models) get heaps of praise, maybe a tap on the Porsche shoulder will help them focus.
The Customer is forgotten about here, shameful behavior, and arrogance.
 
Or maybe one of the Porsche magazines such as 911 & Porsche World, who have run several buyers guides on these models...with no mention of this issue
 
Hi

Just sharing this information in case it ,ight be useful to others. Note I am not identifying the OPC They have been very helpful over this issue..

Car is a 2.0L Cayman PDK MY21. Registered 4/8/20. Mileage = 22.8K.

PART 1

Whilst the car was in the workshop today for other work to be done, I took the opportunity to ask for an OPF soot/ash loading test. The results of the diagnostics were:

K211 – Particulate filter bank 1, soot load calculated = 0.39%

K221 – Particulate filter bank 1, soot load measured = 0.00%

K230 – Particulate filter, oil/ash load calculated = 0.00%

K231 – Particulate filter bank 1 – oil/ash measured = 61.57%

Diagnosis and commentary – Soot levels are low so regenerations have probably been occurring, but exhaust temperatures may still be insufficient so ash is generated. [Due to the problems noted elsewhere in this thread I have been regularly following the instructions concerning regeneration described in the manual as if the particular warning light had actually come on]. Particulate warning light has never come on. OPC confirms that this light does NOT come on. [Interpretation – The manual is incorrect for our region].

Car may require longer runs in order to heat exhaust to required temperatures. Diagnostics reports numbers of:

Engine starts = 2148

....Motor operations at standstill = 641
....Motor operations between 0-3 miles = 631
....Motor operations 3-6 miles = 215
....Motor operations over 6 miles = 658

Engine runs = 2146 (discrepancy of 2 compared to number of starts)

....Between 0-10 minutes = 1199
....Between 10-30 minutes = 590
....Over 30 minutes = 357

PART 2

Intended to try a “dynamic” regeneration but an out of workshop time. Cost = 1 hours labour. Will book this for next week and will report the results then.



Cheers Alan
Hi Alan,
Do you think it would be possible to ask the OPC to put in writing their response regarding the situation with the warning lights ?
If this could be achieved it would be a big step in the right direction in helping us on one part of the jigsaw puzzle relating to the GPF challenges we are experiencing.
Did you purchase your car from new or was it used from a Porsche dealership ?
And if so did you purchase an extended warranty ?
Regards

Paul
 
Hi Guys & Girls

Without Prejudice

Marks email reply from Porsche Readings Technical Department is absolutely ridiculous.

The car doesn’t need a diagnostic check, it just needs them to show him the soot light or message working on his car.

The dealers can not show us this light or message working, because it doesn't work on any of our cars.

I have spent over a year trying to find somebody who has seen this light / message working, even offered a reward.

The soot load warning light is fundamental to the correct running of our GPF cars.

Without this function working, the GPF has to rely on high exhaust temperatures durring hard acceleration runs to keep the soot at bay.

Ash should not be a problem on cars with such low mileages.

If Porsche Readings Technical department have any credibility at all, they will answer Marks request.

If they are not customer facing, they shouldn't be in this job, afterall its all about looking after customers isn't it.

One year on, and I have learnt a lot about how these cars don't seem to work.

I have been in the motor trade over 50 years, and never seen such shocking customer care from the dealers and Porsche Customer Care on this subject.

The last car I dealt with recently took over 5 months to get a resolution.

In all our cases, the news of the cost to replace the GPF filter always seems to come from a service advisor.

Service managers seem to be in the background, they should be at the front.
I say this because I was a Service manager for most of my career.

It's a big repair, and we have never had an explanation of whats caused this GPF to fail.

Something is very wrong with all this, we expect more from Porsche and the dealers.

The fact that this light or message has never been on our cars, confirms it must be a manufacturing defect.

To back this up we have on file an email from Porsche Customer Care that confirmed on one of our cars with
the trouble code P242F was in fact a manufacturing defect. And the GPF was replaced free of charge.

This statement from Porsche sets a precedent for future replacement of faulty GPF filters.

So why are we putting the owners of these faulty cars through this nightmare.

It needs to stop

Dave
 
Does anyone have any connections with someone in the motoring world or a u tuber ?
I would be happy to share my experience to date to get this resolved by the manufacturer.
 
Hi Guys & Girls

Without Prejudice

Thought we should talk about Ash in GPF filters today, obviously this is causing us some issues at the moment.

Roughly 90% of ash in GPF filters is the product of the combustion of metal additives in the lubricating engine oil being burnt in the engine cylinders.

The rest comes from wear in the engine, additives in the fuel, and incombustibles from the air.

So ash cannot be removed totally by regeneration.

I spend alot of my time researching
the workings of GPF filters and reading data from testing laboratories who are constantly looking at GPF longevity.

There is a condition in the GPF called ASH BRIDGING, this phenomenon causes the walls of the Catalytic area to decrease, which increases the exhaust back pressure.

This then increases the need for more active regenerations to be carried out.

Active regeneration requires a controlled process that is started by the engine control unit. Information from the differential pressure sensor tells the control unit to put on the particulate soot loading light on the dashboard.
Instructing the driver to help in the regeneration of the filter, using deacceleration in the driving cycle.

This is well documented in the drivers manual.

Passive regeneration happens naturally durring high speed driving, with high exhaust temperatures.

The ASH BRIDGING occurs in the GPF filter when the ash particles bond together and block the channels in the filter core.

In my research I found that this testing laboratory injected small amounts of engine oil into the cylinders and measured the affects of the back pressure created in the GPF

They came to the conclusion that small amounts of the extra engine oil added to the crankcase fumes, which is redirected into the cylinders can prematurely increase the ash content in these GPF filters.

We have established 100% that on all of our cars the soot loading light or message has never been seen. So active regeneration on these cars may not be happening as it should do.

If the Dealers and Porsche Technical are right about these filters being blocked 100%, and they have to be replaced.

Then why is it happening again on the cars that have had filters replaced recently.

The ash percentage is increasing quicker over low mileages since replacement.

One of our cars is already at 55 %, and it was fitted this year.

Then it's 100% clear that without active regeneration by the car, these filters will block up prematurely.

Looking back at my first post on this forum on December 14th 2023, I spoke about the affects of what a faulty Air-Oil-Separator can do to these filters.

Durring this last year we have found that none of the dealers involved in our GPF faulty cars, had checked the function of the AOS.

When we asked several of them to check the AOS, they couldn't, because they didn't have a Porsche approved tool.

It's unforgivable that the cost to by this equipment is only around £58.00 including vat.

One dealer even said it would put on the engine light if it failed, so we don't need to check it.

We know from passed experience that when the AOS fails badly, you get lots of white smoke from the exhaust which can be very worrying.

And if you are really unlucky, you can get engine oil sucked into the cylinders which is really bad.

The AOS has no electrical feed back to the ECU, so it's under the radar.

So my question to Porsche Technical and their dealers, why are you not checking their Air-Oil-Separators for excessive vacuum readings.

Hopefully this week we will have a vacuum reading taken from a 718 Cayman thats just had one replaced recently.

We will be able to compare the readings against our readings on file, from lots of cars.

Had another phone call over the weekend, another 718 2019 car with a faulty GPF to sort out.

He should be okay as we have established that his soot light not coming on at all, is clearly a manufacturing defect and should be covered 100%.

And again, when he was sold this car, the sales chap didnt inform him about the emission device fitted to this car, that would require his attention if the warning light came on.

This story is not finished yet, will keep you updated

Dave
 

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Without Prejudice

Excellent information Dave, great research again, this man deserves a medal!!
This needs to be escalated and it was a good suggestion of Dans to involve a journalist as the club seem to dismiss it as a small number of cars, well more and more are coming forward and let me tell you that when you get the call from the OPC to tell you that it's going to cost £7500 to replace it, it's your fault and oh it's not covered under your warranty it's a sickening and worrying feeling, a point that is clearly lost on Porsche.
The bottom line is this filter light/message has not been seen on any of the affected vehicles, it does not work and as this is part of the emission control device it is extremely serious.
John what do you think about involving a journalist? Would you be prepared to pick this up on behalf of the club and the affected members?
 
Without Prejudice

Excellent information Dave, great research again, this man deserves a medal!!
This needs to be escalated and it was a good suggestion of Dans to involve a journalist as the club seem to dismiss it as a small number of cars, well more and more are coming forward and let me tell you that when you get the call from the OPC to tell you that it's going to cost £7500 to replace it, it's your fault and oh it's not covered under your warranty it's a sickening and worrying feeling, a point that is clearly lost on Porsche.
The bottom line is this filter light/message has not been seen on any of the affected vehicles, it does not work and as this is part of the emission control device it is extremely serious.
John what do you think about involving a journalist? Would you be prepared to pick this up on behalf of the club and the affected members?
Was just going to ask the same question.
It's been over a week since we have had any updates from the club on this matter and although I am prepared to make contact with a journalist for the sake of both current and future owners, I agree with Wrightrubber and believe the club should take the lead on this and support the members.

In the last week we have had another 2019 car and a 2020/21 car approach David for support and advice on blocked GPFs.
 
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Hi Guys &Girls

Without Prejudice

Hi, its me again

Just done some more research regarding GPF warning light information on Audi and VW petrol vehicles, 2019 onwards.

And I have spoken to Audi and Vw technical technicians to confirm this information is correct.

They have a working warning light on the dashboard for particulate soot loading.

When the soot loading is at a level that requires a regeneration the light comes on.

This leaves a trouble code P2463 00 (175), excessive soot accumulation.

It also leaves another trouble code P1A91 00 (047), indicator lamp active.

So these cars have a light that comes on the dashboard, that then leaves DTC codes in the engine management system. To prove the emission system is working and requires driver intervention.

This protects the life of the Gpf filter and maintains the exhaust system design of removing harmful particulate matter, so we can all breathe cleaner air.

Can we have this system on our cars please.

Regards
Dave
 
Was just going to ask the same question.
It's been over a week since we have had any updates from the club on this matter and although I am prepared to make contact with a journalist for the sake of both current and future owners, I agree with Wrightrubber and believe the club should take the lead on this and support the members.

In the last week we have had another 2019 car and a 2020/21 car approach David for support and advice on blocked GPFs.
Any updates from the Club ?
It’s coming up to a couple of weeks since the last update that indicated the club was trying communicate to Porsche GB.
Surely if the club is being ignored on this matter, a nice double spread in the monthly mag would get their attention ?
or as previously mentioned by a few members a conversation with a independent motoring journalist would get some traction
 
Paul,

We can all appreciate your frustration with the lack of progress on this matter, but I think it unrealistic to hope that the Club would broadcast your case in PP.

As individuals I reckon that you and the others who have posted on here would get better traction doing as Dan has suggested by contacting the motoring press with your case without involving the Club. The fact that more than one person has been affected by this issue could get you more attention.

Just my tuppence- worth of course.

Jeff
 
Just my two penneth, but as there seems to be little traction with Porsche GB itself is it not time to contact Stuttgart direct? All this run around by OPCs and the club doesn't appear to be getting any answers.

Perhaps Dave could contact Porsche Club America and together the two clubs might at last persuade Stuttgart that there really is and issue.

After all, the USA is their largest market that they do not want to upset and whenever they speak to Stuttgart they jump high without asking!!
 
Just my two penneth, but as there seems to be little traction with Porsche GB itself is it not time to contact Stuttgart direct? All this run around by OPCs and the club doesn't appear to be getting any answers.

Perhaps Dave could contact Porsche Club America and together the two clubs might at last persuade Stuttgart that there really is and issue.

After all, the USA is their largest market that they do not want to upset and whenever they speak to Stuttgart they jump high without asking!!
Peter, See this link to download a Porsche 2020 tech spec that mentions only that US cars at that point are fitted with "Two three-way catalytic converters and on-board diagnostics for monitoring the emission control system", no mention of a particulate filter.
 

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