Cayman 718 GPF Failure

[Wrightrubber]

Hi all,
Without Prejudice.

Please see link to latest Porsche Approved Warranty.

Porsche Approved Warranty

Discover a new view on peace of mind with the Porsche Approved Warranty.

www.porsche.com

There has been a fundamental change to what is NOT covered, it now states all filters (including Particulate Filters) this has been added. It does not state this on my extended warranty, which begs the question why have they been telling owners that the particulate filter was not covered on cars with extended warranties prior to this change!!

You designed this car with the Particulate Filter incorporated into the catalytic converter making it very expensive to replace and the system to control it doesn't work and your technicians are not checking VAL Data or checking back pressure to prove the filters are full!

Porsche you ought to be ashamed, you are essentially blaming owners for your poorly designed car and then writing the warranty to cover your incompetence.

Regards
Mark

 

[Paul-718gts]

Hi Mark,

No surprises there really given their performance so far.

So questions this raises -
I guess this is for new warranties only as they would have to write out to all current warranty holders as this would be a change to terms and conditions..
A question I have have already raised to Porsche and like most questions raised not had an answer is - given the filter is part of the CAT how do you define that the GPF has failed and not the CAT.
If you have had a replacement GPF then surely that would also be covered by a parts warranty?
If it’s not under warranty any more what’s changed ? And why ?
All of the other items noted are parts that are either consumables or wear and tear items… Are they saying a £9000 item is now a wear and tear part…

So going back to my journey when my GPF failed after 1400 miles of ownership one of my original questions was how do you know the GPF failing isn’t the result of something else failing further upstream like for instance the oil separator…

Well moving on 6 months and a 2nd GPF that is now 43% full after 800 miles the car is now back in having a new oil separator fitted under warranty…

So answers on a postcard please.. where would this sit on the new warranty t&cs

 

[Strider]

Hello, this is Richard, I'm head of coms for the Club and run the magazine. This is fascinating and really needs to be sorted. I've had an email conversation with Paul and John about an article in Porsche Post, which I can write for the March issue if we can get the information and images together early next week. Both the CEO and the FD at Reading have requested personal copies of the mag, so it will go under the right eyeballs. I've also offered to put a stronger version of the article on the website which we can then share on Club social media and fire into non-Club 718 communities too to rally support. Power in numbers. I can also send it to the coms director at Reading with an email that's rather more firm that I can write in the magazine. All technical information, diagrams and pics very gratefully received: richardgotch@porscheclubgb.com. Thanks and have a great weekend. Richard.

 

[Paul-718gts]

Hi Richard more than happy to share my journey, I will email you contact details.

 

[Cyclemotor1958]

Hi Richard,

Without Prejudice

Who are you,

Have you been away from the club this past year, or have you just joined the club.

Your comment saying this is fascinating and really needs to be sorted, I feel is in bad taste, none of our 718 owners would consider this to be fascinating.

Regarding your friends at Porsche Reading and their request to read your magazine article, I suggest they speak to their Service Manager, and the Technical Team and catchup on what is really happening in their Dealership.

Porsche Reading presented a bill for £9,172.00 to one of their customers last year, to replace the GPF, usual reason, not driving it correctly, and unfortunately not covered on your Extended Warranty.

It took me over 5 months to convince them and Porsche Technical that this failure was a manufacturing defect, and the customer should not have to pay.

After the repair they kindly wrote back to us confirming it was indeed a manufacturing defect, and apologised.

Where were you?

We are not waiting for your friends to read your article in the March magazine, we are getting on with this now, and have been working very hard over the past year, to try and get a resolution.

Thankfully we have managed to stop the dealers and Porsche charging our owners for work that should be covered under warranty.

You don't need any diagrams and pictures, has I have been posting out since page 5, and all the technical information is available for you to read, perhaps your friends at Porsche Reading can do the same.

Don't forget 31K views on this subject.


Dave

 

[Strider]

Hi Richard,

Without Prejudice

Who are you,

Have you been away from the club this past year, or have you just joined the club.

Your comment saying this is fascinating and really needs to be sorted, I feel is in bad taste, none of our 718 owners would consider this to be fascinating.

Regarding your friends at Porsche Reading and their request to read your magazine article, I suggest they speak to their Service Manager, and the Technical Team and catchup on what is really happening in their Dealership.

Porsche Reading presented a bill for £9,172.00 to one of their customers last year, to replace the GPF, usual reason, not driving it correctly, and unfortunately not covered on your Extended Warranty.

It took me over 5 months to convince them and Porsche Technical that this failure was a manufacturing defect, and the customer should not have to pay.

After the repair they kindly wrote back to us confirming it was indeed a manufacturing defect, and apologised.

Where were you?

We are not waiting for your friends to read your article in the March magazine, we are getting on with this now, and have been working very hard over the past year, to try and get a resolution.

Thankfully we have managed to stop the dealers and Porsche charging our owners for work that should be covered under warranty.

You don't need any diagrams and pictures, has I have been posting out since page 5, and all the technical information is available for you to read, perhaps your friends at Porsche Reading can do the same.

Don't forget 31K views on this subject.


Dave

If you think trying to help, or saying that it "needs to be sorted" is "in bad taste," then don't feel you have to benefit from anything I can do. You may not know that diagrams lifted off a forum are not high enough resolution to print. Personally, I think diagrams will help readers and the senior Porsche non-tech leaders understand, but if you feel you know better, then fine. Where was I? I was trying to make Porsche Post a much more interesting magazine for the Members. Richard Gotch, executive editor Porsche Post, head of coms PCGB. Retiring this month as I'm completely fed-up with this type of rudeness. This isn't how our community should respond to people trying to help. Without Prejudice, of course.

 

[Paul-718gts]

If you think trying to help, or saying that it "needs to be sorted" is "in bad taste," then don't feel you have to benefit from anything I can do. You may not know that diagrams lifted off a forum are not high enough resolution to print. Personally, I think diagrams will help readers and the senior Porsche non-tech leaders understand, but if you feel you know better, then fine. Where was I? I was trying to make Porsche Post a much more interesting magazine for the Members. Richard Gotch, executive editor Porsche Post, head of coms PCGB. Retiring this month as I'm completely fed-up with this type of rudeness. This isn't how our community should respond to people trying to help. Without Prejudice, of course.

Hi Richard,
Did you see the email I sent you on Saturday?

Regards

Paul

 

[Strider]

Hi Richard,
Did you see the email I sent you on Saturday?

Regards

Paul

Evening, Paul. Yes thanks. Just replied to it. Thanks for getting in-touch.

 

[JohnCRS]

I will be working with Richard and Dave to get this article into shape. Yes, it will be necessary to go over old ground, but in an article we have to tell the full story of this issue and set out what we are asking Porsche to do. Dave's work is at the centre of all this as he has put a massive effort into researching this issue, assisting members and saving them £1000's. I will be meeting up with Dave this week, but if anyone else would like to contact me directly please do, by telephone or mail.

Best wishes, John

 

[Motorhead]

That’s good to know John, and with Richard’s invaluable assistance in getting the matter into print let’s hope that the matter gets a wider airing and with it a more focused attention of Porsche UK and Stuttgart.

Jeff

 

[Paul-718gts]

Hi all,
Without Prejudice.

Please see link to latest Porsche Approved Warranty.

Porsche Approved Warranty

Discover a new view on peace of mind with the Porsche Approved Warranty.

www.porsche.com

There has been a fundamental change to what is NOT covered, it now states all filters (including Particulate Filters) this has been added. It does not state this on my extended warranty, which begs the question why have they been telling owners that the particulate filter was not covered on cars with extended warranties prior to this change!!

You designed this car with the Particulate Filter incorporated into the catalytic converter making it very expensive to replace and the system to control it doesn't work and your technicians are not checking VAL Data or checking back pressure to prove the filters are full!

Porsche you ought to be ashamed, you are essentially blaming owners for your poorly designed car andsuggested that as the original post was started by you it

Hi all,
Without Prejudice.

Please see link to latest Porsche Approved Warranty.

Porsche Approved Warranty

Discover a new view on peace of mind with the Porsche Approved Warranty.

www.porsche.com

There has been a fundamental change to what is NOT covered, it now states all filters (including Particulate Filters) this has been added. It does not state this on my extended warranty, which begs the question why have they been telling owners that the particulate filter was not covered on cars with extended warranties prior to this change!!

You designed this car with the Particulate Filter incorporated into the catalytic converter making it very expensive to replace and the system to control it doesn't work and your technicians are not checking VAL Data or checking back pressure to prove the filters are full!

Porsche you ought to be ashamed, you are essentially blaming owners for your poorly designed car and then writing the warranty to cover your incompetence.

Regards
Mark

Hi Mark,
I had a really constructive call with Richard today regarding my experiences of this issue, dealership and Brand (Reading) support ,I know that Dave and John are also meeting up this week to discuss technical details. As the owner of the original post I hope you don't mind that I suggested to Richard that it would be excellent for you both to also catch up and for you to share your journey and views as part of the planned article.

Regards

Paul

 

[Paul-718gts]

Just spotted another one on the Porsche 718 forum on Facebook that has just had the £9k light of doom..
Looking to delete cat and cancel light, how many others are there out there that have taken this route.

 

[Motorhead]

I’m not sure what the implications would be when it comes to getting an MOT [I think that a GPF delete is illegal?], although since the cat and GPF are combined in one unit I suppose the tester would need to be familiar with the 718 F-4T layout in order to recognise this.

A bigger turbo sounds a bit extreme! I’m not aware that any tuner offers this option? Just a remap with the standard set-up will release more than enough power and torque without resorting to significant brake upgrades.

Jeff

 

[Cyclemotor1958]

Hi Guys & Girls

Without prejudice

I would just like to share this technical video information with you, regarding the workings of the differential pressure sensor and show you what happens when you apply pressure to the sensor.

This would be the same when the filter gets blocked with ash, or soot.

Remember this sensors function is to tell the ECU when the soot loading in the GPF filter is at a stage when a regeneration is required because back pressure is building up.

I have said on lots of previous posts that whenever we have a GPF filter showing the 100 % ash DTC, we have a very low differential pressure sensor reading, usually no higher than 6.0 hPa, which is no back pressure at all.

If you watch closely on the video he applies a pressure of around 7 to 8 PSI which is around 50 kpa, to the sensor and this creates a voltage of just over 3 volts that's sent to the ECU.

This is converted to a differential pressure reading of 57 kpa which is pressure the ECU is seeing from the sensor.

If you then convert the 57 kpa to hPa which is what are cars sensor works in, you get 570 hPa.

We have never, ever seen a differential pressure sensor reading any where near this level.

And even if you lower the pressure by half it would still be around 285 hpa, still very high.

How can these fiters be blocked when we have such ridiculously low differential pressure sensor readings, it doesn't make any sense.

And why when we have ask our dealers to check for back pressure on our cars do they not do it.

The fact that the dealers are fitting lots of new filters on our cars and the oil ash problem is coming back after very low mileages, clearly suggests that the diagnosis was not correct.

I don't understand why a simple back pressure check is not carried out because this information is crucial to the correct diagnosis of this fault.

It's no wonder we never see the soot loading message on the dashboard for regeneration, when we see these very low pressure sensor readings on a supposedly blocked filter.

Sorry to mention this again, the oil ash measured value comes from the algorithm written within the ECU, and why is there never any information in the oil ash calculated section of the GPF reading report.

We could stop upsetting the owners of these cars, by doing the job right, this would stop the dealers looking bad using the reasons for failure, wrong oil, and to many short journeys.

Porsche Technical could start looking at the software instead of wasting money and time on new GPF filters.

Surley when these GPF filters go back to the manufacturer they will be tested, to confirm they are indeed blocked at 100%, has anyone at Technical checked to see if this is the case.

Dave

 Dave