Cayman GT4: Where are we up 2 now? Déjà vu Edition

[Motorhead]

There have been several GT4s Jeff, as many as there have been Spyders - one was recently snapped on a domestic driveway, there was a video with one ticking over next to some comparison cars and last month there was one undergoing winter testing:

https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1022878_2019-porsche-718-cayman-gt4-spy-shots

Yes, that's certainly true David. Maybe it's just the impression I had that there seemed to be more pics of Spyders out and about.

Anyway, the point I made about the GT4 being conspicuous by its absence from the 'Ring still holds (although I seem to recall there were some shots taken a while ago?) which is a location where you'd expect to see the GT cars in particular testing. Maybe they're waiting for the weather to improve?

Jeff

 

[Steve Brookes]

Those supposedly "in the know" on PH and Rennlist still insist the GT4 will be a 4.0ltr NASP flat six, for what it's worth. If so, I would imagine this Spyder has the same engine that the GT4 will have. It certainly seems to have the same chassis - wheels/brakes look identical across the GT4 and Spyder mules that we've seen.

I don't think those suspects you allude to are any more in the know than anyone else. They just shout louder than any one else! Their desperation to be right and closed minds makes them very entertaining though. []

 

[Twinfan]

I must admit, if it turns out that the GT4 is a turbo four it could quite amusing over on PH []

As for the GT4 not being spotted on the 'Ring, it's been a while but it has been there along with the 991.2 GT3 and GT3 RS I seem to recall. I agree it'll likely be there again once the weather improves.

 

[Brian_Innes]

I must admit, if it turns out that the GT4 is a turbo four it could quite amusing over on PH []

I shall also be quite amused if the new GT4 turns out to be a flat-4 turbo.

Brian

 

[roblaurie]

So why isn't the flat 6 turbo out of the Carrera a possibility?

Would separate it from the 718 and help Porsche to meet its emission targets.

Unless I'm missing something obvious !

Rob

 

[Twinfan]

Physical size of the engine is the issue. On the F4T, the turbo and plumbing fits where two cylinders used to be. Trying to fit an F6T into a Cayster would have the twin turbos of the engine crashing through the bulkhead and heatshield...

 

[Brian_Innes]

Rob,

There would be engine bay cooling issues on the 718 with a twin turbo flat-6, even supposing the space to fit it could be re-engineered. The 718 body-shell as it is, is just not wide enough for a flat-6 turbo plus all the plumbing and cooling requirements.

Brian

 

[roblaurie]

So I was right, there is something obvious

 

[Brian_Innes]

As a satisfied and enthusiastic 718 CS owner, I was in a minority of one earlier in the life of this thread, when I put forward the notion that the next GT4 could well be powered by a further development of the flat-4 turbo engine. My suggestion was received by some contributors to this thread with forthright derision and disdain for even thinking of such a thing.

"Fat chance" was a typical comment posted.

As an interested observer of this forthcoming GT4 launch, I'm sensing a change in probability coming along the tracks.

A 718 GT4 flat-4 turbo with 430bhp and 625Nm torque..........with more to come via a few taps on the lap-top keyboard is an appealing prospect and a very doable one for Porsche on several levels.

We shall see.

Meantime, I'll bide my time and await the announcement from Porsche in due course.

Brian

 

[ralphmusic]

Of course if it is on the ‘new’ platform then maybe the T6 will fit although the compromised rear strut suspension design might be less than desirable....

.. just joshing.

 

[Laurence Gibbs]

I am no more informed than anyone else on what engine is likely. But I would be surprised if it's a F4T. If the car is kept NA Porsche will have an instant success on it's hands, especially if the engine is GT3 derived (the main criticism of the current version, that and the Gbox ratios)

Then there is the current universal,( i have not read or seen a single review that raves about the engine note at all, in stark contrast to previous versions) dislike of the F4T engine note, which is yet to be addressed. Take a good look at the approved used section of the Porsche website and witness just how many 2017 model 718's are available with apparent delivery mileage and compare it with availability of it's predecessor . My impression , which may well be wrong is of a car not exactly flowing out the showrooms.

If you were Porsche what would you do? If they do fit a flat 4 it will no doubt help maintain residuals of the current car for some time to come. Personally I am hoping it will be NA 6

 

[Motorhead]

Laurence,

It does to me seem strange that both Frank Walliser (VP Motorsport & GT Cars) and Andreas Preuninger (Manager - High Performance Cars) have gone on record in the recent past to say that (current?) GT cars will be naturally aspirated, and yet here we are faced with the possiblity that the next GT4 could have the flat-4 turbo engine. However - as I've said in a recent post - the Spyder is not a GT car, so anything's possible.

One of the cases put forward for taking the turbo route is meeting emmisions standards - about which I confess to know very little - but as far as I'm aware the 981 met the current Euro 6 standard introduced in 2014, so I can't see there being an insurmountable problem with emmisions by installing a slightly modified version of the 3.8L engine in the next GT4 (hopes of the GT4 using a detuned GT3 engine are far fetched in my opinion).

According to Wikipedia:

EU Regulation No 443/2009 sets an average CO₂ emissions target for new passenger cars of 130 grams per kilometre. The target is gradually being phased in between 2012 and 2015. A target of 95 grams per kilometre will apply from 2021.

I assume that the term "average" applies across a manufacturer's range and the next GT4 production run should have been completed by 2021 so, unless I'm missing something, I can't see any major obstacle to fitting the n/a flat-6 engine in the car.

Your point about 718 models not exactly flying out of showrooms may or may not be valid but apparently 2017 deliveries of 718 models were up by 6% to around 25,000 cars, so Porsche must be doing something right.

Jeff

 

[Brian_Innes]

I was a 718 sceptic when they were first announced. Not any more.

Whatever engine the new 982 or 718 GT4 is propelled by, it'll be a winner in my opinion. Porsche don't make bad cars.

Only the entrenched flat-six brigade will shun it. The proof of the engine choice will emerge when the new GT4 hits the tracks. It'll be a blinder.......

Brian

 

[Motorhead]

I agree Brian.

I can't see many people refusing one if offered - apart from David of course, but he'll be running around in his GT3 by then..!

Jeff

 

[Brian_Innes]

Lucky David!

Looking at the engine options from Porsche's standpoint, it could well be that the current GT3/RS are the last n/a flat-6s in a production road Porsche. Apart from the emissions considerations, Porsche will want to make the new GT4 an aspirational model for future road and track enthusiasts like myself.

Just suppose for a minute Porsche fit an n/a 3.8 flat-six, pumping 430bhp in the new 982 GT4. When current 718 CS and GTS cars come out of warranty, track day owners will be looking to the aftermarket for a tune-up. Already 415bhp is available with a Level 1 ECU remap and cotton air filter. Just think what the 718 flat-4t potential will be in a few years time. If I were in different circumstances, I would definitely tune-up my 718 CS after the warranty runs out. Just as I modified my CR when the warranty expired.

Porsche will well know the power increase development potential of the flat-4t, and the aftermarket tuners waiting in the wings. They most certainly won't want the new GT4 to be eclipsed by tuned-up 718's in a couple of year's time.

On the balance of the evidence so far, I would say the probability is in favour of a flat-4t engine in the new GT4.

David will be so glad he made the leap to a new GT3. Despite the RWS and PTV............

Brian

 

[Ray]

I was a 718 sceptic when they were first announced. Not any more.

Whatever engine the new 982 or 718 GT4 is propelled by, it'll be a winner in my opinion. Porsche don't make bad cars.

Only the entrenched flat-six brigade will shun it. The proof of the engine choice will emerge when the new GT4 hits the tracks. It'll be a blinder.......

Brian

Brian,

As you say Porsche don't make bad performing cars. The company has a name to uphold which is linked to performance and quality.

Ray

 

[Twinfan]

Road and Track published an interesting article last week on why the next (992) GT3 will most likely be naturally aspirated. Given the GT4 Clubsport is based off the GT4 road car, I think the same logic might apply...

https://www.roadandtrack....ral-aspiration-gt3-rs/

 

[Motorhead]

That's an interesting idea David. However I'm not sure that there's a similar BoP requirement in GT4 racing (maybe Ralph will confirm?), but obviously both the road and Clubsport GT4 cars will share the same engine.

And while R&T make a good case for the GT3 remaining naturally aspirated based upon power and torque being balanced by BoP, that's not the whole story. On the power circuits I'm sure that equalising power/weight ratio will even things out, but on more technical, twisty circuits the turbo cars' good low speed torque characteristics should give them an advantage. Just ask Brian about his track day experiences with the 718 CS compared with the CR.

Jeff

 

[MrDemon]

Torque wins races, just look a the new GT3 track times over even the 991 RS, it's lapping far far quicker than the 991.1 cars.

Picked mine up Saturday it's mega.

mind blowing time in the new car.

 

[Twinfan]

That's an interesting idea David. However I'm not sure that there's a similar BoP requirement in GT4 racing (maybe Ralph will confirm?), but obviously both the road and Clubsport GT4 cars will share the same engine.

And while R&T make a good case for the GT3 remaining naturally aspirated based upon power and torque being balanced by BoP, that's not the whole story. On the power circuits I'm sure that equalising power/weight ratio will even things out, but on more technical, twisty circuits the turbo cars' good low speed torque characteristics should give them an advantage. Just ask Brian about his track day experiences with the 718 CS compared with the CR.

Jeff

I believe the cars are equalised in GT4 racing so the same logic could potentially apply. Yes torque is key for laptimes but the GT4 CS has been quite successful as it is I think?