BJ Innes said:David,
You seem to have a very narrow-minded view of what makes a car good to drive. Somewhat surprising as you claim to have owned more cars than anyone I know.
I cut my keen driver teeth in the 1960's, 70's, and 80's. A raw, raucous, free-revving, 1293cc Mk1 Mini Cooper S with 649 cam, twin inch-and-half SU's, straight-cut gearbox, and a crude Jack Knight pawl-activated LSD, made the hairs on the back of my neck bristle. The bark of a BDA engined Ford Escort, or the sewing machine whine of a 9000 rpm 998cc Hartwell Imp race engine, all etched an indelible mark on my brain right up to the present day.
However it may displease some, automotive technology is unstoppable and does not stand still. Due to increasingly stringent environmental constraints, we are currently in the midst of the turbo era as engine induction facilitator.
Turbo cars are not dull, big torque is not boring. "Newer" brings with it chassis development tweaks that only a decade ago would have only been available to supercars. I'm not talking about electronic stability aids here, like RWS, PTV, PSM, and such like, I'm referring to better engineered dampers, springs, anti-roll bars, and brakes.
My current 718 CGTS is a hoot to drive. It has better steering than my CR, is just as playful on the track, and has absolutely magnificent PCCB brakes. A feature that the CR was woefully short of. Having said that, the CR is the iconic car of its time.
Picking up your point on turbo lag, I can quite easily replicate turbo lag in my 718 GTS. This is how....select Normal mode on the dial, stick the gear selector in "D", and your brain in "lazy" mode. That'll dial-up turbo lag. I prefer to engage fully with my driving on the roads that are in my back yard. I select Manual shift, Sport mode, and my brain in keen driver mode. You know what? Turbo lag is non-existent. Just instant go.
At 70+ I embrace the modern era, even though I have a life-long attachment to the normal aspirated engines of yesteryear. The new current engines are not necessarily better to drive than their n/a forebears, just different.
Brian
I lost you when you said it has better steering than the R
you get a faster rack and a smaller steering wheel and with wider track in the 718 it of course will turn in faster, but it has less feel by a county mile than an R! So you need to define "better steering"
have a go in a R again you would be very shocked what detail you gain from the old system ;-)
I would not say narrow minded, I just want more interaction, and my mate even thinks the 987.2 Spyder is luxury and is lacking over his 65 and 66 cars on that level.
I can embrace modern if it's good, the EPS in the GT3 is better than the eps in my new/old 991.1 GTS so yes when tech gets better it can be ok.
but my 987.2 SPyder is more involving than any of my big money cars.
I think if you drove my GTS with x51 (which has PDK btw of which I have to drive in sports plus manual mode to be interesting) or my GT3 you would get a shock just how good these 2 engines with throttle response and making power to red line is, and let's not talk sound which is a big part of owning a £100k car over driving a 4 pot daily like my Golf, I want to hear more than 4 pistons in my fun cars.
my mates got the 991.2 GTS and yes it's faster every where, but it's very easy and does not sound any where near as good.
So while it's great you can embrace new cars and can talk yourself into how good they are, one has to be realistic and they are not as involving as you say, so yes different, but yes also less involving.
I have what £330k worth of cars so could swap these out for anything, but the NA era with hydraulic steering is a very nice sweet spot, so no need to embrace new tech when you can still buy 2nd hand cars which offer more for the driver.
As I said goto a track day esp Silverstone and the big boys want the lap times in the big expensive do it all cars as easy as possable, it is what it is.
put them in a Caterham they would be backwards at the 1st bend !
your 718 is a very fast car, at 126 mph on this bit of road I test cars on I have still not beaten it even in the GT3 !
my GT3 is unusable fast, to a point I drive it very little, which leads me onto your GTS which is too fast for the road imo so you would get more fun at 60 mph from the R than the GTS, my GT4 was like that, I needed to go 120 mph on B roads to find it fun ! in a 987 it's more fun at slower speeds.
lets not even go into PASM ,, Manthey fit 3 ways passive's to all their cars and they lap faster ! I am sure Chris W would not go back to his PASM set up.
newer cars are easier to drive, sound worse and don't have the response of a tuned NA engine, it's that simple.
They are faster yes, but that's it, but a moot point when we have ave speed camera's every where.