Chesil/Tygan
- Thread starter Muzzer911
- Start date
Andrew Mearns
Member
The world of replica speedsters is huge, with about 6 manufacturers in the USA, and handfull in Europe, and a few small ones in South Africa. We stock various used cars, and sell the new Tygan ones with new car prices starting at £24,995 on the road. Please make contact if we can help in any way, I've seen a couple of good used cars around so we could point you in the right direction of these. Andrew.
jamescharnley
Active member
you'll find quite a few owners over on www.ddk-online.com where they'll give you all the info you need.
I think PCGB doesn't give recognition to these cars as they don't have Porsche chassis numbers .
On that note I think the same applies to RUF cars too
I think PCGB doesn't give recognition to these cars as they don't have Porsche chassis numbers .
On that note I think the same applies to RUF cars too
Porsche supply the body shells direct to RUF under a special agreement.
I would hope that these hand built cars are most certainly recognised by the club. No way can they be called replicas - each one is unique and built ot a very high standard indeed. They are a recognised manufacturer in their own right.
I was at RUF last September and I can see why people enthuse over them.
I think the Register Director should be able to clarify this one.
jamescharnley
Active member
Daft I know .. but here is one of many previous threads on teh subject of RUF cars & PCGB membership ( full not associate)
http://www.porscheclubgbforum.com/tm.asp?m=128906&mpage=1&key=RUF%2Cclub🞽
http://www.porscheclubgbforum.com/tm.asp?m=128906&mpage=1&key=RUF%2Cclub🞽
Hi All
Lets not start another "red herring" thread about Membership.
"replicars[
]" have always been a problem, but Ruf is hardly a replicant as it started life as a Porsche chassis, and the relationship with Porsche is well known. There are many full Members who own these wonderful machines, and I would hope that they stay as full Members.
Please remember that we are Members of " Porsche" Club GB, not the Porsche Special Lookalike Club,
My view I know, but I do have a passion for the real thing, but do not mind those that start off with a copy hoping to get a real one when funds permit.
(crash helmet on, waiting for incoming flack[])
Have fun
Paul Kelley
Lets not start another "red herring" thread about Membership.
"replicars[
]" have always been a problem, but Ruf is hardly a replicant as it started life as a Porsche chassis, and the relationship with Porsche is well known. There are many full Members who own these wonderful machines, and I would hope that they stay as full Members.Please remember that we are Members of " Porsche" Club GB, not the Porsche Special Lookalike Club,
My view I know, but I do have a passion for the real thing, but do not mind those that start off with a copy hoping to get a real one when funds permit.
(crash helmet on, waiting for incoming flack[
])Have fun
Paul Kelley
It may well be huge, but they are not, have never been nor will ever be, or appreciate like a real Porsche.
A brand new kitcar shell built just last week outside of Germany on a 70's scrap beetle covered in cheap repro parts is not the same thing, however well you package it.
[
]Personally If it were me I would far rather invest £20k on a good roadworthy 356B/C than shares in Tupperware. There are plenty of real cars still around to choose from.
Plastic is NOT fantastic. In rust we trust.
Sorry. (Not worried about 'flack' as I am a woman so feel free to discount my view anyway!)
[
]
You can ENJOY both, yes, but only see 1 go up in value while you are the keeper of it which is surely a bonus. But yes, it is up to the individual how they choose to spend their own money, and if it is all just about 'looks' then ok..
But my 50's vw beetles have far more in common with a 356 than any chesil. So if you enjoy driving Porsches as you say, then why would you enjoy driving a Chesil that has no Porsche parts anyway?
My point only is that for £20k you can buy a real Porsche so there is no need to buy a kit. And that a kitcar has NO similarity to a real Porsche at all so it is right they are not included as such.
Pinocchio could never be a real boy however hard he wished to be as he was only a puppet.
JCB..
Non-member
I don't think so...
CHASSIS - VW Beetle, jig mounted and shortened by 10 3/4".
ENGINES - A new Arnie Levics built twin port VW Type 1 with all new ancillaries. Options of 1600cc 60bhp, 1800cc 90bhp and 2000cc 110bhp.
GEARBOX - VW Type 1 Transaxle, 4 speed.
Which leaves the bodyshell which, for a 50's Beetle, I believe is made of steel just like a 356! [8D]
I agree that kits could not be endorsed/supported by Porsche Club GB. Next thing there will be kit car builds in Porsche Post.
I know a fair bit about kit cars having owned one for 10 years and raced it for five. Kit cars cover a vast spectrum of vehicles. Some are exquisite in every detail and as good, if not better, than many massed production cars. Some are an unholy heap of junk. IMHO those kits which are honest in what they are, and don't try to pretend to be something else, are generally better than those that are "an homage" to a production car. Those that use a dedicated space frame chassis can be very good. Those that use the floor pan from another vehicle are frequently poor and certainly no better than the floor pan of the original car.
Because of the simplicity of kit cars they can be extremely light (compared to a steel car) Light means they are very quick on the track. I have done track days with my Westfield when absolutely nothing went past me all day - and not because I'm one of those idiots who won't move over. They have their place and if I were to consider another dedicated track car I would give another kit serious consideration.
If you want a Porsche, buy a Porsche. If you want a kit car get one that doesn't pretend to be something else. It will be a better car for it.
Putting a "Turbo" or GTi badge on the back of a non Turbo or GTi is the worst heresy in motoring. Nothing says "I wanted a Turbo but couldn't afford it" louder. Putting a Porsche badge on a rusting beetle chassis with an inverted boat hull loosely screwed to it says "I wanted a Porsche, couldn't afford it, and don't appreciate what makes Porsche special any way." Putting a plastic front and rear on a 993 in the shape of a 96 GT1 will not make it a GT1.
On the other hand - a replica.
Now if a replica were exactly that, a 1:1 scale reproduction, correct in every detail, using the same materials as the original, with parts interchangeable with the original in every aspect, that could be a great car. Some valuable historic racing cars have little more than the chassis plate from the original car but are still that car.
I am sure it would possible to commission a replica of Jim Clark's Lotus 49. Such a car could be built - if it hasn't already - and could be indistinguishable from the real thing. However, it will never, ever, ever, be Jim Clark's Lotus 49 and Lotus would probably insist the car was destroyed due to copyright.
Anybody want a fake Rolex?
While I'm on a roll.....Porsche themselves are guilty of building replicas.[] Horror... How so? Many of us have seen the 98 Le Mans winnning No 26 GT1 I am sure. I have seen it, and photographed it, myself on several occasions; except that the No 26 GT1 at Brands Hatch was different to the No 26 at Goodwood which was different to the No 26 at Colchester OPC.[8|]
I know a fair bit about kit cars having owned one for 10 years and raced it for five. Kit cars cover a vast spectrum of vehicles. Some are exquisite in every detail and as good, if not better, than many massed production cars. Some are an unholy heap of junk. IMHO those kits which are honest in what they are, and don't try to pretend to be something else, are generally better than those that are "an homage" to a production car. Those that use a dedicated space frame chassis can be very good. Those that use the floor pan from another vehicle are frequently poor and certainly no better than the floor pan of the original car.
Because of the simplicity of kit cars they can be extremely light (compared to a steel car) Light means they are very quick on the track. I have done track days with my Westfield when absolutely nothing went past me all day - and not because I'm one of those idiots who won't move over. They have their place and if I were to consider another dedicated track car I would give another kit serious consideration.
If you want a Porsche, buy a Porsche. If you want a kit car get one that doesn't pretend to be something else. It will be a better car for it.
Putting a "Turbo" or GTi badge on the back of a non Turbo or GTi is the worst heresy in motoring. Nothing says "I wanted a Turbo but couldn't afford it" louder. Putting a Porsche badge on a rusting beetle chassis with an inverted boat hull loosely screwed to it says "I wanted a Porsche, couldn't afford it, and don't appreciate what makes Porsche special any way." Putting a plastic front and rear on a 993 in the shape of a 96 GT1 will not make it a GT1.
On the other hand - a replica.
Now if a replica were exactly that, a 1:1 scale reproduction, correct in every detail, using the same materials as the original, with parts interchangeable with the original in every aspect, that could be a great car. Some valuable historic racing cars have little more than the chassis plate from the original car but are still that car.
I am sure it would possible to commission a replica of Jim Clark's Lotus 49. Such a car could be built - if it hasn't already - and could be indistinguishable from the real thing. However, it will never, ever, ever, be Jim Clark's Lotus 49 and Lotus would probably insist the car was destroyed due to copyright.
Anybody want a fake Rolex?
While I'm on a roll.....Porsche themselves are guilty of building replicas.[
] Horror... How so? Many of us have seen the 98 Le Mans winnning No 26 GT1 I am sure. I have seen it, and photographed it, myself on several occasions; except that the No 26 GT1 at Brands Hatch was different to the No 26 at Goodwood which was different to the No 26 at Colchester OPC.[8|]We have pre56 vws and a pre 56 Porsche. Lots of crossover, do some research.
Chesil's are made from repro parts that 50's VW owners wouldnt even let anywhere near their cars! post-67 design vw repro parts that should be on a 1970's beetle! not a 50's Porsche.
So how many genuine period 50's parts on your average Chesil then.....
Your reply is wonderfully perfect [
] I was not knocking kitcars either, I think they are often really interesting in their own right, but when it comes down to it, a car is the sum total of its parts. Nothing more. German Motor racing history does not come from Mexico, Brazil or Taiwan. I just find it really irritating that 356 kitcars, new and s/h are pushed/misrepresented by the sellers/owners as a comparable buy?! [&:]
Helen Goff
No.1 Poster
i have an Apal Speedster and am proud of it (must get a t-shirt printed [])
there i said it. ...phew!!
i also own or have owned several "original" porsches some of which had far fewer original porsche parts than my Apal Has.
BUT although my Apal is Badged up as a porsche (it was approved by Porsche when first produce and they happily supplied parts to Apal) i am more than happy to admit to anyone who asks that its a Replica.
which makes it a whole lot of fun to own and drive as i am not worried by How much the car worth while sitting in Tescos car park or in the car park of a pub/resturant. it drives and handles briliantly............ infact just like a porsche [][8D]
so YES if you have always fancied a classic porsche but can't afford one then WHY not get a Replica and have FUN. life is far to short to be snobby about such things.
i really don't care if Porsche Club or Porsche cars GB approve or not.
]) there i said it. ...phew!!
i also own or have owned several "original" porsches some of which had far fewer original porsche parts than my Apal Has.
BUT although my Apal is Badged up as a porsche (it was approved by Porsche when first produce and they happily supplied parts to Apal) i am more than happy to admit to anyone who asks that its a Replica.
which makes it a whole lot of fun to own and drive as i am not worried by How much the car worth while sitting in Tescos car park or in the car park of a pub/resturant. it drives and handles briliantly............ infact just like a porsche [
][8D] so YES if you have always fancied a classic porsche but can't afford one then WHY not get a Replica and have FUN. life is far to short to be snobby about such things.
i really don't care if Porsche Club or Porsche cars GB approve or not.
How?
Did you put full 356 chassis, running gear, engine under the Apal body? And then remove all the running gear, engine parts from the real Porsche to create this imbalance?
Or are you just talking about a few genuine badges and accessories?
ORIGINAL: Helen Goff
it drives and handles briliantly............ infact just like a porsche [
As above. There is no way it can drive "just like a Porsche" , similar to, yes, otherwise it actually drives more like a beetle which drives similar to a Porsche, but not the same as. Yes you can build up a T1 engine to go as fast as or faster than the 356 engine, but there is no way it can drive more like a Porsche than a beetle. a beetle floorpan is very different to a 356 chassis to start with.
Enlighten me.
It is this such direct comparison that owners of speedster kits so often state that baffles me.
If you had an original totally unmodified low mileage speedster and also a Chesil together and drove each, there would be no comparison.
I think that Chesils and similar kits actually damage the image of the real speedster with their 'too high' headlights, cheap repro items and non comparitive.... well, anything! other than basic visual appearance to the man on the street.
I am surprised Porsche even lets them stay in business.
It just goes to prove that cars have different purposes to different people. Some just like the look while some like the feel, old smell, years of patina, history.
There's nothing wrong with kitcars, but dont say they look and drive like a real speedster because that is simply not true.
I am not going to even respond to JCB as he clearly has'nt a clue what he is talking about [
]
Keep it nice people...
[8|]
[8|]
Helen Goff
No.1 Poster
ORIGINAL: mrsherbie
How?
Did you put full 356 chassis, running gear, engine under the Apal body? And then remove all the running gear, engine parts from the real Porsche to create this imbalance?
Or are you just talking about a few genuine badges and accessories?
ORIGINAL: Helen Goff
it drives and handles briliantly............ infact just like a porsche [
As above. There is no way it can drive "just like a Porsche" , similar to, yes, otherwise it actually drives more like a beetle which drives similar to a Porsche, but not the same as. Yes you can build up a T1 engine to go as fast as or faster than the 356 engine, but there is no way it can drive more like a Porsche than a beetle. a beetle floorpan is very different to a 356 chassis to start with.
Enlighten me.
It is this such direct comparison that owners of speedster kits so often state that baffles me.
If you had an original totally unmodified low mileage speedster and also a Chesil together and drove each, there would be no comparison.
I think that Chesils and similar kits actually damage the image of the real speedster with their 'too high' headlights, cheap repro items and non comparitive.... well, anything! other than basic visual appearance to the man on the street.
I am surprised Porsche even lets them stay in business.
It just goes to prove that cars have different purposes to different people. Some just like the look while some like the feel, old smell, years of patina, history.
There's nothing wrong with kitcars, but dont say they look and drive like a real speedster because that is simply not true.
I am not going to even respond to JCB as he clearly has'nt a clue what he is talking about [
i'm not going to bother to reply to this post, as you have made it 100% clear that you have NO idea at all about what you are talking about on this subject.
Have you ever driven a really Good replica ? or are you just slating all replica cars from rummour you have heard?
BUT it did amuse me greatly so keep up the goodwork [
][][]Helen Goff
No.1 Poster
when you start talking about real USED classic porsches (all pre 1973 cars) then a very good proportion of them you will find are full of "reproduction" parts that have never seen Germany let alone a porsche factory.
a good deal of the 356 parts that are availble for us to keep our beloved "real" 356 on the road are only available so cheaply because of the added demand for them from the "kit car" market.
also when talking classic porsche please bare in mind just because a car has a genuine porsche Chassis number, it dosn't automatically make it a good car. it very much depends on what has happened to that car through out its life... i have driven some "real" porsches that have been real dogs. and if that had been the only taste of a porsche i had ever driven i would now be going around saying "don't buy a old porsche as they are awful/unsafe to drive". which would be, as WE (true enthusiasts) all know would be totally misleading and untrue.
a good deal of the 356 parts that are availble for us to keep our beloved "real" 356 on the road are only available so cheaply because of the added demand for them from the "kit car" market.
also when talking classic porsche please bare in mind just because a car has a genuine porsche Chassis number, it dosn't automatically make it a good car. it very much depends on what has happened to that car through out its life... i have driven some "real" porsches that have been real dogs. and if that had been the only taste of a porsche i had ever driven i would now be going around saying "don't buy a old porsche as they are awful/unsafe to drive". which would be, as WE (true enthusiasts) all know would be totally misleading and untrue.
JCB..
Non-member
ORIGINAL: mrsherbie
I am not going to even respond to JCB as he clearly has'nt a clue what he is talking about [
You are of course entitled to your opinion but that isn't a prerequisite for joining in a debate on what is, after all a forum.
You do realise that it's 2008 not 1958! [&:]
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