Chesil/Tygan

[jdpef356]

Anybody want a fake Rolex?

Thanks John - put me down for the fake Rolex.

Interesting debate. Although I will never own a genuine Rolex (I could afford one) but dont see the point in paying through the nose for
something when a fake one will do exactly the same thing. ie tell me the time. Now if there was such a thing as the RCGB (Rolex Club Great Britain) I dare say they might be a bit miffed If I stated the above on there forum. But thats free speech and my choice. Having said that I dont think I would want to attend any of the RCGB monthly meets or WOTY's with my bit of Turkish strapped to my wrists.








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[Helen Goff]

ORIGINAL: jdpef356

Anybody want a fake Rolex?

Thanks John - put me down for the fake Rolex.

Interesting debate. Although I will never own a genuine Rolex (I could afford one) but dont see the point in paying through the nose for
something when a fake one will do exactly the same thing. ie tell me the time. Now if there was such a thing as the RCGB (Rolex Club Great Britain) I dare say they might be a bit miffed If I stated the above on there forum. But thats free speech and my choice. Having said that I dont think I would want to attend any of the RCGB monthly meets or WOTY's with my bit of Turkish strapped to my wrists.

Good point and well put..

 

[JCB..]

ORIGINAL: jdpef356

Anybody want a fake Rolex?

Thanks John - put me down for the fake Rolex.

Interesting debate. Although I will never own a genuine Rolex (I could afford one) but dont see the point in paying through the nose for
something when a fake one will do exactly the same thing. ie tell me the time. Now if there was such a thing as the RCGB (Rolex Club Great Britain) I dare say they might be a bit miffed If I stated the above on there forum. But thats free speech and my choice. Having said that I dont think I would want to attend any of the RCGB monthly meets or WOTY's with my bit of Turkish strapped to my wrists.

I think you've hit the nail on the head John.

My point was that a 2008 Chesil or Tygan with 2008 components, pattern or otherwise, is probably a better car than a 356. Merely suggesting these replica's are inferior because they are not the real McCoy is nonsense.

I don't think anyone is suggesting any comparable level of kudos between owning a 356 or replica. []

 

[mrsherbie]

ORIGINAL: JCB..
My point was that a 2008 Chesil or Tygan with 2008 components, pattern or otherwise, is probably a better car than a 356. Merely suggesting these replica's are inferior because they are not the real McCoy is nonsense.
[]

I can only think you are joking, as this statement is just utter rubbish []
A kitcar is simply NOT superior to a Genuine Porsche of any model or year. And if you think so, then why are you even posting here? These forums are for lovers of German Porsche's, not other types of cars manufactured by other companies in other countries.
You seem to have no idea of why Porsches are special, or even the difference in quality between brand new repro parts made in Taiwan/Mexico or similar v genuine German Porsche parts, vintage NOS 50's or otherwise.

Differing views and opinions are fantastic, the great thing about forums. And if your kitcar makes you happy, then that is great because that is what owning any car is all about after all []
But facts are facts. A Chesil etc are nothing like a Porsche, unless Chesil have a 60yr pedigree and racing history that I am unaware of... No, I didnt think so. [8D]

 

[JCB..]

ORIGINAL: mrsherbie

A kitcar is simply NOT superior to a Genuine Porsche of any model or year.

Why? [8|]

(And I don't have a kit car).

 

[mrsherbie]

ORIGINAL: JCB..
I don't think anyone is suggesting any comparable level of kudos between owning a 356 or replica. []

Again, its nothing to do with 'kudos', its about the feel of living history. Some people prefer old/antique furniture, whether from Sotheby's or the local tip! While some are happy with IKEA, the furniture does the same job after all. Its not about the money. I think this is where people see different things. To me, a kit or Speedster replica is only about looks but I am sure you feel something different.

But to say that a '55 Speedster and a 2008 Chesil are the same is just foolish.

 

[JCB..]

ORIGINAL: mrsherbie

ORIGINAL: JCB..
I don't think anyone is suggesting any comparable level of kudos between owning a 356 or replica. []

Again, its nothing to do with 'kudos', its about the feel of living history. Some people prefer old/antique furniture, whether from Sotheby's or the local tip! While some are happy with IKEA, the furniture does the same job after all. Its not about the money. I think this is where people see different things. To me, a kit or Speedster replica is only about looks but I am sure you feel something different.

But to say that a '55 Speedster and a 2008 Chesil are the same is just foolish.

I'm actually looking at the issue from the perspective of the cars as a car, not an antique. On the one hand you have a 1950's sports car on the other a replica. Yes you can build your own Chesil with the cheapest repro parts you can lay your hands on or you can build it with the best, contempory parts available to fit the VW floorpan that the car is based on. Starting with a late IRS pan is going to put you streets ahead in the handling department. Throw in a high performance engine, gearbox and suspension components from the likes of Gene Berg and by comparison, in terms of performance, your 1950's sports car is going to look just that a 1950's sports car.

It's never going to be a Porsche and I've never suggested it is.

 

[jr2015]

Interesting thread, I`ve wondered from time to time whether a 914/4 could be the basis for a 550 spider project (as the real thing is too valuable to take on the road), it`s mid-engined ,has a Porsche chassis and running gear, and could make a fun summer car for not a lot of outlay in comparison.
jr

 

[kenparker]

Being a Jag fan/owner a number of well put togeather reps are common place. They are also very much part of the club and the line up from which the members display their cars at events. No one is saying that a 356 replica is a Porsche but one thing that has not been mentioned is the demand for the product. The way in which it changes the market and the parts availablity.

For one the real car is and is ment to be a costly item and should be enjoyed by the owner. But would you race one? but you would race a 356 Speedster rep. So with that I am aware of some reps that have been built to replace the orginal car due to the cost of parts and the availablity to replace the car should any racing damage place a car beyound repair.

So this then brings forward the issue of spare parts. Well since there is a demand for the cars, this is then matched by a demand for the need of parts. This has I am sure placed a number of parts back on the shelf at the retailers that would have by now just been an item on ones wish list at car auto jumbles. So you can't have it both ways.

I must also point out the same for

AC Cobra's
GT40's
MG's as you can buy a new shell ( there for it's not an orginal car anymore)
Lotus ( the same reason as above )

And for the keen eyed amoung you. Just look at the next classic car race meeting. Places like Goodwood and Classic Le Mans you will see replica's amoungst genuine cars. I don't have a problem with replica's based on the genuine car. I feel what the issue here is it's based on a Volkswagen Beetle. It seams that grates with people with this club.

For the people who should feel this way then there is a lesson to be learnt. Take a look at any history book of Porsche but look in the first section of cars for a changed called the 356. What's the 356 based on in the early days []

 

[mrsherbie]

You make good point about the 356 coming from the beetle, BUT as we are beetle owners ourselves and love them dearly, I must point out that there are many people like us who will not have cheap repro parts on our cars ( except absolutely necessary sheet metal and only if NOS cannot be found)

I take exception to the fact that someone even compares our original 50's beetles to a bunch of nasty repro parts used to put together a chesil under a plastic shell. You will not find any of those parts on any of the beetles I know. So yes, even our VWs are far superior to the kitcars.
All beetle parts are NOT the same which is the assumption being made here by all of you. And not all people use repro parts on their cars. That is the easy way for people who lack the discipline or patience required to find/restore original genuine parts.

A home-made plastic car without a Porsche chassis or no. does not belong at a Porsche show, it's quite simple to understand really []
Kitcar replica's belong in a misc VW 68-onwards lineup (as their floorpan(chassis) dictates)
Or with the dustbins in my garden.
Anyway, I must get back to my Playdoh 904. Looks (almost) and drives just like (not really at all) a real one you know!

 

[kenparker]

I think you seam to have missed my point. So I will ask a question.

So where does a Beetle need 356 Speedster exterior trim to make it a Beetle?

The repro parts I am talking about are related to the 356 Speedster and no mention of the Beetle parts bin. Having owned an early Beetle my self many moons ago a black 55. Nice car but just didn't at the time out weigh the cost put into the car. Was sold for a 912 which did, paved the way to an early 911. The Beetle is a mighty fine car and it has not been the best of rides for owners on the whole. For years the demand for the cars from penny wise people who only fixed them when they broke and even then carried on driving them till it really broke.. This then made way for a whole lot of repro parts for less money than the orginal. Small companies looking to make it big that last about 6 months before they go bust or take short cuts to make ends meet. But the parts were not expensive from the dealer in the first place. So now the early cars are sort after the demand for the orginal parts are out stripping the supply.

So yes the quality of some of the repro parts are so bad you might as well enjoy watching £50 go up in flames it would last longer. So my point is good quality replica's are a very nice car to drive. I don't like the modern kits. I think the kit that is the most detailed to the orginal is the old Apal from the 80's and If I was to have one. It would be one of these. But with a 356 or 912 engine.

 

[Helen Goff]

Ken, i think unfortunatly Ann is just here to wind us all up.


hopefully one day she learn to respect other people choices, even if she dosn't agree with them.

thankfully we all have diffrent priorites and likes. else we would all still be riding horses, after all they are quite capable of getting us from A to B.

 

[JCB..]

ORIGINAL: jr

Interesting thread, I`ve wondered from time to time whether a 914/4 could be the basis for a 550 spider project (as the real thing is too valuable to take on the road), it`s mid-engined ,has a Porsche chassis and running gear, and could make a fun summer car for not a lot of outlay in comparison.
jr

A Porsche kit car? []

 

[JCB..]

ORIGINAL: jr

Interesting thread, I`ve wondered from time to time whether a 914/4 could be the basis for a 550 spider project (as the real thing is too valuable to take on the road), it`s mid-engined ,has a Porsche chassis and running gear, and could make a fun summer car for not a lot of outlay in comparison.
jr

A Porsche kit car? []

 

[jdpef356]

I can sense a bit of tension here between some of the contributors so why dont you take a look at the discription and photos of e bay item:- 230259478036. I hope this will keep both the VW and Porsche Camps Happy !

As PK would say HAVE FUN!

 

[mrsherbie]

ORIGINAL: Helen Goff

Ken, i think unfortunatly Ann is just here to wind us all up.

hopefully one day she learn to respect other people choices, even if she dosn't agree with them.

I do respect other people's choices, until people say that a kitcar is just as good if not better than a real Porsche on a real Porsche forum []
I am aware that people who want to promote/enjoy the kitcars have DDK forum to chat about them.

If people would just keep to the facts instead of constantly trying to directly compare 2 vehicles that could'nt be farther apart on the spectrum, then I would not have a problem with it.

I still have a nice og 60k mile 55 beetle which I love [] Zero repro parts. It's not impossible just a little more difficult than buying brand new off the shelf. I was talking about repro floorpans for a start ( rubbish compared to genuine) and many other cheap parts that get used to build the kits eg. the nasty cheap headlight units etc etc etc.
But then I realise that someone with these parts on their kitcar probably does not realise how lesser quality their parts bought from Chesil or similar in a package kit/fully assembled car, actually are in the vw market.

Anyway, I am not at all bothered as I will never drive a Tupperware container anyway, so I am very happy for you if you 'think' they are as good as a real Porsche[] ( or even a real vw!) []

 

[Helen Goff]

maybe we should get back to the topic ratherthan personal attacks on each other.


a Speedster real or not is such an unpracticle car for the uk that it can honestly be considered as a toy. with the real ones prices reaching prices of well over £60k they are only toys for the very rich.

the replicas therefore enable people on somewhat smaller budget to also have a toy/bit of fun. and weres the harm in that?

the Harm only starts when people take these car too seriously.


Replicas are Toys/playthings. they are not trying to be porsches. I don't beleive PCGB should or need to except them into their fold. i can't though see what harm it would do at a show to have a replicas represented..
Tipec have been doing it for years at their National Show.

i do however find i offencive that you keep harping on about the poor build quality and ride. SOME of these replicas are superb cars. and have proven to be a great introduction to the porsche world all be it by the back door so to speak.
i have never driven a Chesil/Tygan replica so i am not qualified to comment.. i have however driven a couple of real 356 speedsters and i can honestly say my Apal speedster compares really well. would i buy a real speedster.? in the UK no. as i just couldn't use it anough to warrent the costs.
where as Grin per £ the Apal is well worth owning.

i wouldn't pay the best part of £30k for one myself as for thatsort of money i can get avery nice Porsche BUT for £10k when i already own other more practicle Porsches then.. its great FUN.




maybe you should start to read more Porsche specilist magazines.

 

[JCB..]

ORIGINAL: mrsherbie

ORIGINAL: Helen Goff

Ken, i think unfortunatly Ann is just here to wind us all up.

hopefully one day she learn to respect other people choices, even if she dosn't agree with them.

I do respect other people's choices, until people say that a kitcar is just as good if not better than a real Porsche on a real Porsche forum []
I am aware that people who want to promote/enjoy the kitcars have DDK forum to chat about them.

If people would just keep to the facts instead of constantly trying to directly compare 2 vehicles that could'nt be farther apart on the spectrum, then I would not have a problem with it.

I still have a nice og 60k mile 55 beetle which I love [] Zero repro parts. It's not impossible just a little more difficult than buying brand new off the shelf. I was talking about repro floorpans for a start ( rubbish compared to genuine) and many other cheap parts that get used to build the kits eg. the nasty cheap headlight units etc etc etc.
But then I realise that someone with these parts on their kitcar probably does not realise how lesser quality their parts bought from Chesil or similar in a package kit/fully assembled car, actually are in the vw market.

Anyway, I am not at all bothered as I will never drive a Tupperware container anyway, so I am very happy for you if you 'think' they are as good as a real Porsche[] ( or even a real vw!) []

Is there an award for the PCGB snob of year? If there is they may as well engrave your name on it now! [&:]

 

[Helen Goff]

ORIGINAL: JCB..


Is there an award for the PCGB snob of year? If there is they may as well engrave your name on it now! [&:]

you took the words right out of my mouth (or off my key board) []

 

[kenparker]

Having taken an interest in this post I have always been open to both real cars and replica cars. Both can be as good as each other for what you want to get out of them. Some are even better than the orginals. This is due to the improved design of parts and the availablity.

What I will say is I noted that there was a 356 Speedster Replica in the line up of classic Porsches at a recent early event with this very club. I just wounder who noticed a very nice kit, well made and the detail was spot on. I am sure it's a joy to drive.