Could the 718 replacement be an EV?

[Ray]

Bottom line is the Green lobbyists have a large say and the politicians love to climb aboard the Eco train for votes. In a few years time reality will strike and the politicians will come to their senses or the motor industry will discover how to move 2 tons of metal at speed giving a return of 50mpg with no pollutants.

The only electric cars to make any sense are town cars and even then how much energy do you need to produce to charge 5 million vehicles or more and at what cost to the environment? I once asked an Eco warrior how many wind turbines would my town need to generate enough electric to keep all of our lights on? He told me to pee off, in other words he had no idea.

Ray

 

[Motorhead]

In the current edition of Autocar magazine, Porsche Chairman, Oliver Blume, has been giving details of the the future development pathway designated for current 718 Boxster and Cayman models. A full electric Boxster and Cayman is currently being developed for launch in 2022.

Also under consideration are mild-hybrid and plug-in hybrid versions using the current flat-4 turbo engines.

The mild-hybrid version will use a disc-shaped electric motor housed within the 992 PDK gearbox to provide an additional performance boost for the flat-4t engine. This version will not however provide electric only propulsion.

The plug-in hybrid uses the same disc-shaped electric motor in combination with the flat-4t engine, but is built around a battery of sufficient capacity to provide extended electric only running.

This is good news. In an earlier post I was fearful that the 718 platform would be scrapped in favour of the lardy 992 modular platform. According to the Porsche Chairman, this is clearly not the intention of current development.

So, if Oliver Blume's statement is borne through to fruition, it seems the doom-sayers who would take great delight in seeing the 718 consigned to the scrap heap are going to be disappointed.

The "Poor Man's 911" is likely to be with us for a few years yet. I for one, am happy about that.

Brian

Very much along the lines we'd been anticipating Brian (posts #12 - #16 above), using the space in the new 8-speed PDK transmission to include an electric motor.

It seems that in order to save the Audi TT from extinction Audi are looking at reinventing it as a PHEV and a pure EV https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/audi/tt/105191/new-audi-tt-could-be-reinvented-as-an-electric-sports-car

The interesting thing to note is the challenge of where to put the batteries in a low-slung sports car, given that the pack is 12 or 13 centimetres tall which makes the base of the seating point higher. They're looking at splitting the battery pack "such as one bit of the battery in the centre of the car and another bit in front of the front wheels, or behind the rear wheels". No doubt the Porsche and Audi engineers will be comparing notes..!

Jeff

 

[Motorhead]

On the subject of lithium-ion batteries there are some very disturbing aspects regarding the supply of at least two of the major raw materials: lithium and cobalt.

Although Australia is the main supplier of lithium, Chile isn't far behind and more worryingly Congo (DRC) is by far the biggest supplier of Cobalt. Chile has been tagged the “Saudi Arabia of lithium” and it's impoverished neighbour Bolivia holds even more reserves of lithium. DRC has a very poor human rights record and child and slave labour as well as toxic waste issues have been reported there in the mining of cobalt.

Have a look at this thought-provoking article https://www.engineering.com/ElectronicsDesign/ElectronicsDesignArticles/ArticleID/17435/Will-Your-Electric-Car-Save-the-World-or-Wreck-It.aspx

Also, I'd refer you to the final section Adding up the Cost:

"manufacturing a BEV adds an entire ton of greenhouse gases to the atmosphere more than a gasoline vehicle. But perhaps more shocking is that the total carbon footprint of a BEV is not zero, it’s half of what it is for the total lifespan of a gasoline vehicle"

As always, there's a hidden price to pay..!

Jeff

 

[Brian_Innes]

On the topic of EV infrastructure it is interesting to note that the Taycan, due to be launched at the Frankfurt show in September 2019, requires a 350Kw charging infrastructure to take full advantage of the rapid charging times quoted for the Taycan's 800V system. This is completely dependant on the availability of these 350Kw "super-charge" stations.

According to Autocar, currently only 69 of these stations are operating across the whole of Europe, with none at all in the UK. Apparently only 2 such 350Kw "super-charge" stations are under construction in the UK, at Gretna and Maidstone.

This amply illustrates the point where car manufactures are far ahead of local charging infrastructure. The politicians simply haven't a clue about practicalities, relying only on sound-bite vote catching statements.

I'm in agreement with those who say EV's are best suited to cities. For keen drivers like myself who enjoy touring the remoter parts of the UK, EV's are a long way off from being a practical option.

I'm thinking the internal combustion engine will see me out for sure.

Brian

 

[Ray]

Brian,

Spot on. Chicken or the egg when it comes to vehicles vs chargers? And many haven't a clue as to which of these to push forwards first. As city cars they really have the edge when it comes to pollution but sadly they have not as yet managed to get the mileage from these vehicles plus the charging rate for touring or holidays.

I had a friend who was constantly bailing out a friend when they ran out of charge, in the end they got rid of the electric vehicle. Why haven't the Eco brigade pushed the hydrogen vehicle more?

Ray

 

[CLIFFWILKINS]

Hoping for the same Brian the petrol engines will see me out, if it doesn't i won't be driving an electric Porsche . Maybe the wife might ferry me around in electric just doesn't appeal to me being a petrol head.

 

[Brian_Innes]

Hoping for the same Brian the petrol engines will see me out, if it doesn't i won't be driving an electric Porsche . Maybe the wife might ferry me around in electric just doesn't appeal to me being a petrol head.

The only EV I'm likely to own is a mobility scooter...............

Brian

 

[CLIFFWILKINS]

True

 

[Motorhead]

The only EV I'm likely to own is a mobility scooter...............

Brian

Brian,

The way Porsche are moving at the moment don't be surprised if they come up with one..!

Jeff

 

[ChrisW]

The next step for super fast charging are banks of super-capacitors. Charge them over time and allow them to discharge at a fast rate into the battery. The problem is loss on loss on loss ... and the losses create huge amounts of heat.

Lithium-Ion batteries are not without their problems either .. witness the Tesla workshop fire ... they need heating to work in cool weather and cooling so as not to overheat when under load.

What is the point of trying to replicate a big car big engine and a tank of fuel with a modest sized electric motor and a huge battery to give the range of small tank of petrol, when what we really need to do is use less by creating long life recyclable lightweight solutions ... ???

BMW's i3 is the way ...

 

[ralphmusic]

The 718 will stay with 4T or 6NA engines with no major changes thru to Euro 7 in 2023. No room for hybrid with current platform. Euro 7 threatening to require Lambda 1 for all load conditions??

 

[ChrisW]

What is Lambda 1 ?

 

[ralphmusic]

Lambda 1 is a 1:1 air to fuel ratio which is optimal for light load operation. It produces lowish exhaust pollutant emissions, and decent fuel economy. But for extra torque, you need to run richer i.e. more fuel per air.

 

[Ray]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air%E2%80%93fuel_ratio

All too heady for me.

Ray

 

[Motorhead]

A bit more on this topic here:

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/2022-porsche-boxster-and-cayman-get-hybrid-and-ev-options

Jeff

 

[ChrisW]

Aparrently Mazda are leading the market in lean burn at the moment ...

 

[ralphmusic]

And McLaren don’t need to fit a GPF because they don’t use DFI technology.

 

[Ray]

Aparrently Mazda are leading the market in lean burn at the moment ...

Well, I'm not buying one. the only "Green" car I shall be likely to purchase will be one painted green.

 

[Rufus]

All this talk about electric or hybrid cars of the future, the thing that worries me is that if the EU get their way and put speed limiters on all new cars from 2022 there will be no point in owing a Porsche or any performance car

 

[Brian_Innes]

All this talk about electric or hybrid cars of the future, the thing that worries me is that if the EU get their way and put speed limiters on all new cars from 2022 there will be no point in owing a Porsche or any performance car

The joy of owning and driving performance cars is rapidly diminishing with every passing year. I fear the true car enthusiast is rapidly becoming a dying breed. I also fear for the future of motorsport which has been close to my heart all my life.

Speaking personally as an enthusiast, I am thankful I was born in an era when cars were fun to drive, with certain models an aspirational goal to own. eg Porsche.

Sadly the future looks increasingly bleak. The best we enthusiasts can hope for is to revert to the classics which are exempt from many of the restrictive regulations. For the time being at least. The eco-rebels are focusing their ire on banning all fossil fuel vehicles by 2025. Totally unrealistic.

Regarding the future, electric vehicles for long distance touring will fail to excite many enthusiasts sharing my demographic regardless of the infrastructure developments.

As for hybrids, they are a compromise, a half-way house if you like. They too will be banned in due course.

My current 718 CGTS will have to do me for now before the curtain descends on the joy of driving.

Brian