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Could the 718 replacement be an EV?

Brian,

I have mixed feelings regarding the latest diktat from the EU. If their idea was to become law what would be the point of motor sport? What would be the point of automotive development? What would be the point of owning a high performance vehicle of any type? None is the answer for me.

Don't get me going on about the EU. Faceless morons, dictators etc etc. Enough now Ray, watch your blood pressure.

Ray

 
Ray,

Regarding you BP scale, best not to read Volvo's latest eco-raid on the keen driver which states that all Volvo's manufactured after 2020 will be limited to 112 mph.

Come to think of it, I've never witnessed a Volvo doing more than 100 mph since Rickard Rydell campaigned the Volvo estate car in the 1990's BTCC. :ROFLMAO:

Brian

 
Brian,

I too remember that Volvo estate all those years back. Limited to 112 mph is ok as long as it takes 5.8 seconds to get there.

Ray

 
I suspect that in the early 1900s when cars were in their infancy people were saying, how on earth will these things catch on after a horse and carriage. You would need somewhere to fill up with petrol on nearly every street corner and that's simply too big an undertaking to ever happen!!!😂😂 I'm sticking to Dobbin and a bale of straw for now!!😂😂

Besides that, where would we get all the manure from for our allotments!!😂😂

Chris

 
I expect it might go the hybrid route, possibly using existing VAG technology, rather than full EV as its a large investment to show intent for what is now niche business for Porsche.

I expect the SUV's and Panamera will be in line ahead of the 2 door sports models for the full electric treatment as it makes more business sense as they can cover 70% of sales with three models and still maintain the petrol heritage for a few more years

That said, whatever the next 718 is I will be tempted unless it has ludicrous i8 type gull wings

 
The Auto Express article mentioned Porsche saying that the 911 would be too difficult to change to electric power but surely they could fit huge batteries in place of the rear seats :)

 
AndrewT said:
The Auto Express article mentioned Porsche saying that the 911 would be too difficult to change to electric power but surely they could fit huge batteries in place of the rear seats :)
Click to expand...

Andrew,

Porsche have always claimed that the 911 is a 4-seater - nonsense really because the rear seats are only fit for very young children or legless dwarfs.! The precious 992 looks set for some type of hybrid powertrain in the not too distant future (there's provision in the latest PDK transmission for a motor-generator), but it seems that Porsche view the Cayman and Boxster as potential toe-ins for full electric powertrains, most probably making use of platform sharing with Audi to keep costs down. I seem to recall Audi saying that the next TT will be an EV, so it looks as though that's the way things are progressing.

Unfortunately I reckon that we could be seeing the beginning of the end for Porsche's mid-engined cars - when you have electric traction the term becomes meaningless.

Jeff

 
Motorhead said:
And yet more news, seemingly in an alternative direction..!

https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-porsche/porsche-718s-may-return-to-flat-six-power---/40895

Jeff
Click to expand...
At the end of that article it is suggested that Porsche may even produce both power trains (i.e. models tailored to different markets), although that seems very unlikely to me.

My money would definitely be on all-electric, especially with the potential sales in China.

By the time Porsche gets around to actually building the thing (2023?) attitudes (and charging infrastructure) will have moved on and the EV movement will have gathered more momentum.

Pretty much an unstoppable train, if you excuse the dodgy metaphor.

On the plus side, the performance figures for these "performance EVs" is absolutely staggering, even the relatively cheap (£57k) Tesla Model 3 Performance.

And the new Taycan Turbo S?: 750 bhp / 1050 Nm. 0-62mph in a claimed 2.8 seconds.... List price £139K!.

 
Philip,

Clearly there's a big debate taking place in Porsche at the moment about BEVs. The Taycan (sports saloon) has now been released and we know that the next Macan (SUV) will be an electric vehicle, so I suspect that the Cayman and Boxster would be the best 'fit' for Porsche's first electric sports car. It would be much simpler and cheaper to opt for a fully electric platform rather than design a hybrid platform which could be updated to full electric during the platform's lifespan of 10-years or so.

Although China is very important market for Porsche with more than 80k deliveries there last year, I'm not sure how many of those were 911s and Cayman/Boxsters. I suspect that the SUVs and Panamera were the biggest sellers in that market as well as the Asia-Pacific, Africa and the Middle East markets which accounted for 108.5K deliveries in 2018.

Agreed that BEVs can be frighteningly quick - and I'm sure that they can be very engaging to drive - but for me the sound is very important for a sports car and I can't help but feel that electric traction brings with it a rather soulless audible experience. Racing apart, witness the audible excitement of a Formula 1 race compared with the incessant whine of a Formula E race.

Jeff

 
Jeff

Thanks for the reply. I too was surprised about the apparent popularity of Porsche sports cars in China, but that PH article quotes CEO Oliver Blume as saying that “the four-cylinder 718 has actually become a best-seller for Porsche in China..”. However, what that means isn’t completely clear. It surely can’t mean that the 718 is the best-selling Porsche car in China, so it must presumably mean that they sell more 718’s in China than any other country? Incidentally, it was added that Porsche expect 30% of all EV car sales to go to China.

I completely agree with your comment about the “growl” of the cars being an essential element of watching F1 and even Touring cars, but I am less bothered about the “noise accompaniment” in my own road car. In many modern 4-cylinder performance cars most of what you hear inside the cabin (unless you have the windows down!) is fake anyway. I know I am in the minority, but I am quite looking forward to all-electric sports cars. Hybrids (of whatever type) are just a “stepping stone”, so may as well go all the way. However, as has been said on here many times on here, no one is going to take the leap (especially those of us who live in rural/remote areas) until the fast-charging infrastructure is sorted.

As an example of just how quickly things are moving, it was reported in AutoExpress this week that the new Tesla Model 3 was the third biggest selling new car in the UK in August, outselling the Ford Focus and the Vauxhall Corsa. Yep, Mr Musk has certainly got the big boys worried.

 
Technetium said:
Jeff

Thanks for the reply. I too was surprised about the apparent popularity of Porsche sports cars in China, but that PH article quotes CEO Oliver Blume as saying that “the four-cylinder 718 has actually become a best-seller for Porsche in China..”. However, what that means isn’t completely clear. It surely can’t mean that the 718 is the best-selling Porsche car in China, so it must presumably mean that they sell more 718’s in China than any other country? Incidentally, it was added that Porsche expect 30% of all EV car sales to go to China.

I completely agree with your comment about the “growl” of the cars being an essential element of watching F1 and even Touring cars, but I am less bothered about the “noise accompaniment” in my own road car. In many modern 4-cylinder performance cars most of what you hear inside the cabin (unless you have the windows down!) is fake anyway. I know I am in the minority, but I am quite looking forward to all-electric sports cars. Hybrids (of whatever type) are just a “stepping stone”, so may as well go all the way. However, as has been said on here many times on here, no one is going to take the leap (especially those of us who live in rural/remote areas) until the fast-charging infrastructure is sorted.

As an example of just how quickly things are moving, it was reported in AutoExpress this week that the new Tesla Model 3 was the third biggest selling new car in the UK in August, outselling the Ford Focus and the Vauxhall Corsa. Yep, Mr Musk has certainly got the big boys worried.
Click to expand...
I have mixed emotions when it comes to exhaust notes. Loud or soft that is the question. The child in me loves the huge sounds that some vehicles have but would I desire that all the time? The answer would be no to that. I once had a street legal fast road modified Golf GTI with a huge exhaust which it required to rid the engine of gases. Trouble was you needed ear defenders at motorway speeds it was not a relaxing drive. Around town etc it was a head turner as it rattled the shop and house windows as it passed by.

So we come to modern times and we talk of the silent electric vehicles. Which if some have there way will not be silent at all. People think that these vehicles could be a hazard to pedestrians due to them being quiet? Which when you think about it comes as a bit of a turn around when we have decible limits to limit noise. The car manufacturers are once again put on the spot. Manufacturers are going to have to come up with an exhaust not to suit both the vehicle owners and to make pedestrians vehicle aware. Will we get to the state where we have a Fiat 500 with the sound track of an Aston? Or is it about time that pedestrians took some responsibility for their well being/safety when crossing roads etc?

Ray

 
Ralph,

Not one EV amongst them ... yet. I wonder what the situation will be in say 10-years time? Very different I suspect, but the price of EVs needs to come down significantly and improved battery technology should give a more useable range and infrastructure changes will improve the availability of accessible charge points.

Manufacturers are putting huge resources into EVs - I hope that it proves to be worth all the effort.!

Jeff

 
In Germany, the government is preparing to increase the buyer subsidy €2k to €4k for smaller electric cars, interestingly the manufacturer also gets a subsidy at the same amount.

 
Ray said:
... So we come to modern times and we talk of the silent electric vehicles. Which if some have there way will not be silent at all. People think that these vehicles could be a hazard to pedestrians due to them being quiet? Which when you think about it comes as a bit of a turn around when we have decible limits to limit noise. The car manufacturers are once again put on the spot. Manufacturers are going to have to come up with an exhaust not to suit both the vehicle owners and to make pedestrians vehicle aware. Will we get to the state where we have a Fiat 500 with the sound track of an Aston? Or is it about time that pedestrians took some responsibility for their well being/safety when crossing roads etc?

Ray
Click to expand...

Ray, in case you weren't aware, pure EVs and hybrids are now required to have "acoustic sound systems" fitted that warn pedestrians (and cyclists?) of their presence which have to be turned on at speeds less than 20kph (12mph). From personal experience I know that a lot of work was done some time ago by Warwick University into the most effective sound to use - it doesn't need to be in any way related to that which a conventional IC engine car produces - but the frequency content, level and directionality are critical components.

https://warwick.ac.uk/newsandevents/pressreleases/researchers_help_make/

JLR too have been involved extensively the field of simulated exterior and interior sound, much of which will have been incorporated in the I-Pace.

Jeff

 
<rant>

Cyclists don't have to have bells, (or licences, or yellow vests, or any identifying marks)

</rant>

 
ralphmusic said:
In Germany, the government is preparing to increase the buyer subsidy €2k to €4k for smaller electric cars, interestingly the manufacturer also gets a subsidy at the same amount.
Click to expand...

Just as the UK government has signaled that it's going to reduce[/i] the subsidy for hybrid and electric vehicles..! The German car industry is perhaps more critical to their economy than vehicle production is to ours, and with tighter crash and emissions regulation it's becoming very hard for manufacturers to make money on small town cars, so it would make sense for the German government to subsidise their production (is that allowed under EU rules?).

Jeff

 
ralphmusic said:
<rant>

Cyclists don't have to have bells, (or licences, or yellow vests, or any identifying marks)

</rant>
Click to expand...
Nice one Ralph.

Ray

 
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