It is a really strange approach in my view. In my place, check the weblink, more and more electric cars appear on the streets every day. Reading comments about insufficient electric supply in some areas. Have you taken into account alternative energy sources? They also greatly contribute to general capacity, do you agree to it? We will not avoid replacing more cars with electric engines, no matter what you say.
Could the 718 replacement be an EV?
- Thread starter Motorhead
- Start date
Until the 992-series the rear and mid-engined cars have always been developed simultaneously, sharing the front structure and components up to the A-pillar, so in that respect it's always been a modular platform.
The 992 platform has I believe been designed to accept a mild degree of hybridisation, indeed the latest PDK transmission has space for a motor-generator, but I think Porsche are concerned about battery packaging and associated weight considerations, so we'll have to wait and see what materialises in a couple of years time.
I'm sure that Porsche will be eager to utilise as much of the 992 platform as possible for the 718 replacement, but if it's to be a full electric vehicle it will require a radical departure from that platform in order to incorporate a large battery pack and motors and associated control electronics. The wider VW-Audi Group will be looking for platform-sharing opportunities elsewhere too.
Jeff
The 992 platform has I believe been designed to accept a mild degree of hybridisation, indeed the latest PDK transmission has space for a motor-generator, but I think Porsche are concerned about battery packaging and associated weight considerations, so we'll have to wait and see what materialises in a couple of years time.
I'm sure that Porsche will be eager to utilise as much of the 992 platform as possible for the 718 replacement, but if it's to be a full electric vehicle it will require a radical departure from that platform in order to incorporate a large battery pack and motors and associated control electronics. The wider VW-Audi Group will be looking for platform-sharing opportunities elsewhere too.
Jeff
Colin,
No doubt Porsche will be incorporating knowledge gained and components from the Taycan development programme in future BEVs, the Cayman/Boxster in particular. Whether or not the Taycan platform itself would be suitable is difficult to say given the different price-points for the Taycan and the current mid-engined sports cars, although judging by the high prices of BEVs you'd have to expect a significant price-hike for battery powered Caymans and Boxsters. That will present a particular challenge for Porsche if the price encroaches on 911 territory, but maybe that's their current thinking for the sports car range: BEV - Cayman/Boxster; ICE/Hybrid - 911. In other words, say goodbye to an entry-level Porsche sports car?
Of course the interesting thing to note is that with a BEV the term mid-engined becomes redundant. Indeed, the Cayman and Boxster could well be rear-engined or four-wheel-drive. If the latter then that could open up the platform to wider use within the VAG, with the option of having front, rear or four-wheel-drive offerings on the same basic platform.
Just my musings of course.
Jeff
No doubt Porsche will be incorporating knowledge gained and components from the Taycan development programme in future BEVs, the Cayman/Boxster in particular. Whether or not the Taycan platform itself would be suitable is difficult to say given the different price-points for the Taycan and the current mid-engined sports cars, although judging by the high prices of BEVs you'd have to expect a significant price-hike for battery powered Caymans and Boxsters. That will present a particular challenge for Porsche if the price encroaches on 911 territory, but maybe that's their current thinking for the sports car range: BEV - Cayman/Boxster; ICE/Hybrid - 911. In other words, say goodbye to an entry-level Porsche sports car?
Of course the interesting thing to note is that with a BEV the term mid-engined becomes redundant. Indeed, the Cayman and Boxster could well be rear-engined or four-wheel-drive. If the latter then that could open up the platform to wider use within the VAG, with the option of having front, rear or four-wheel-drive offerings on the same basic platform.
Just my musings of course.
Jeff
vitesse
Active member
Jeff-I thought I was being careful to use " development "-perhaps I should have said "module template "-my thoughts were based on the concept of
a)Bolt on battery storage-easily adapted for power requirements.
b)This section forms part of the whole body structure & stiffens it.
c)Production engineering positives.
d)Conserves space.
e)I can't see any sense in not putting drive motors at the axles (the GKN modular unit will prove king for many BEV's)
f) Software will do all the clever stuff (allows for 2 or maybe morespeed motors) -even wheel motors.
g)Batteries kept well away from car inside.
Etc -now I'm having to think.[8|]
Colin.
a)Bolt on battery storage-easily adapted for power requirements.
b)This section forms part of the whole body structure & stiffens it.
c)Production engineering positives.
d)Conserves space.
e)I can't see any sense in not putting drive motors at the axles (the GKN modular unit will prove king for many BEV's)
f) Software will do all the clever stuff (allows for 2 or maybe morespeed motors) -even wheel motors.
g)Batteries kept well away from car inside.
Etc -now I'm having to think.[8|]
Colin.
As far as I'm aware there's no further news or movement from Porsche on this topic, but seeing this piece on PH I thought that I'd fire up this post again because although it doesn't reference Porsche directly it raises issues equally pertinent to Porsche's future: the development and use of IC engines in particular in their sports cars.
https://www.pistonheads.com/news/blog/goodbye-to-all-that---ph-footnote/42659
Although Porsche have stated that the 911 won't be going electric any time soon they'll be aware that the UK plans to ban the sale of petrol and diesel vehicles in 12-years, which doesn't leave that much time given development cycles to make some very important decisions if they want to sell cars in this and, I suspect, other important markets for them. I'm sure the discussions in the VW boardroom about the Golf's future development are mirrored in that of Porsche about the Cayman/Boxster and 911's future. Maybe that decision has been made already about the mid-engine car?
Jeff
https://www.pistonheads.com/news/blog/goodbye-to-all-that---ph-footnote/42659
Although Porsche have stated that the 911 won't be going electric any time soon they'll be aware that the UK plans to ban the sale of petrol and diesel vehicles in 12-years, which doesn't leave that much time given development cycles to make some very important decisions if they want to sell cars in this and, I suspect, other important markets for them. I'm sure the discussions in the VW boardroom about the Golf's future development are mirrored in that of Porsche about the Cayman/Boxster and 911's future. Maybe that decision has been made already about the mid-engine car?
Jeff
Jeff,Motorhead said:
Can you see this happening? Electric vehicles are improving but to suppliment travel we need a much improved public transport system. And talking of public transport are these vehicles along with haulage vehicles going to turn green and not just in colour?
Twelve years to get an infrastruture fully operational seems nowhere long enough. We must also take into account motor vehicle development which is improving but sales are low and slow. The cost of these vehicles is quite expensive and some would say very expensive for the distance gained from some.
The deadline of 12 years for sales of new vehicles may dramatically increase the values of outdated petrol/diesel vehicles. At one time I would have said that electric vehicles would not take off as I know people who have purchased and then reverted back to petrol due to the limitations of electric, running out of charge and limited mileage. However, we are all aware that these vehicles are improving through development.
https://www.youtube.com/w...C95WACQhCY&t=1199s
Ray,
Of course this raises many other issues, as you've rightly pointed out. Apart from the requirement to increase the charging infrastructure massively, given a 12-year timescale I think that buses and some vans probably could be converted to battery power but long-haul vehicles could not, although hydrogen power would provide a better solution for the latter, a discussion we've had elsewhere recently https://www.porscheclubgb.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=1043403 where the high cost of entry-level BEVs compared with their ICE counterparts in particular was also noted [think Skoda Citigo, etc.].
Prices will fall with time of course, and the Government could provide better financial incentives for buyers to help accelerate the changeover, but I don't think politicians understand fully the technical difficulties involved for the manufacturers given the short timescale. Unfortunately, in the current crisis they've got a taste for how quickly manufacturers can come together to meet increased demand for specialised ventilators, but it's a very different challenge from producing millions of
complex and reliable electric vehicles for the masses.
Jeff
Of course this raises many other issues, as you've rightly pointed out. Apart from the requirement to increase the charging infrastructure massively, given a 12-year timescale I think that buses and some vans probably could be converted to battery power but long-haul vehicles could not, although hydrogen power would provide a better solution for the latter, a discussion we've had elsewhere recently https://www.porscheclubgb.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=1043403 where the high cost of entry-level BEVs compared with their ICE counterparts in particular was also noted [think Skoda Citigo, etc.].
Prices will fall with time of course, and the Government could provide better financial incentives for buyers to help accelerate the changeover, but I don't think politicians understand fully the technical difficulties involved for the manufacturers given the short timescale. Unfortunately, in the current crisis they've got a taste for how quickly manufacturers can come together to meet increased demand for specialised ventilators, but it's a very different challenge from producing millions of
complex and reliable electric vehicles for the masses.
Jeff
Jeff,
I couldn't agree more with you. Hydrogen powered vehicles have been around for a long time now but for some reason are never flavour of the month. I watched a TV program - probably Tomorrows World - and they did a run through on these vehicles, long before Thunberg and the Green party. At the time I thought they would go into full scale development.
As for Governments they do have a tendency to jump on band wagons for votes and as we all know the Green lobbyists have a powerful voice with MPs for this reason. I am not going to involve myself with Green issues as I have an issue with them.
I am sure given time - and that is the issue - battery runtime will improve they may even jump ship and come up with some other means of powering vehicles.
Some years ago we in many parts of the UK suffered with snow and more snow. Our main motorway from West to East was blocked a few miles from me. The area is desolate and drivers were trapped for a long time. How would an electric vehicle have coped trying to keep the occupants warm? I would have thought a full petrol tank would have run for a longer time than a full battery bank.
The future of total electric vehicles is some way off into the future and it will play no part in my daily transport. I with luck shall be flitting from one cloud to another and if I am unlucky I shall have to wear a nomex suit.
I couldn't agree more with you. Hydrogen powered vehicles have been around for a long time now but for some reason are never flavour of the month. I watched a TV program - probably Tomorrows World - and they did a run through on these vehicles, long before Thunberg and the Green party. At the time I thought they would go into full scale development.
As for Governments they do have a tendency to jump on band wagons for votes and as we all know the Green lobbyists have a powerful voice with MPs for this reason. I am not going to involve myself with Green issues as I have an issue with them.
I am sure given time - and that is the issue - battery runtime will improve they may even jump ship and come up with some other means of powering vehicles.
Some years ago we in many parts of the UK suffered with snow and more snow. Our main motorway from West to East was blocked a few miles from me. The area is desolate and drivers were trapped for a long time. How would an electric vehicle have coped trying to keep the occupants warm? I would have thought a full petrol tank would have run for a longer time than a full battery bank.
The future of total electric vehicles is some way off into the future and it will play no part in my daily transport. I with luck shall be flitting from one cloud to another and if I am unlucky I shall have to wear a nomex suit.
Nice one Ray ... if things turn out badly I could well be joining you in the nomex suit.! Like you I think it unlikely that I'll be around to experience the full BEV revolution as a driver, but you never know, and it didn't take long for horse-drawn transport to be superceded by the IC engine.
Battery technology is making gradual rather than startling headway, with most likely solid state batteries being the next development. It seems as though we have to look to the east for hydrogen passenger car developments: Toyota, and now Hyundai, seem to be leading the charge [or probably more of a trot.!].
A very good point about being stranded in a BEV in a snow drift watching the battery drain away ... where's that damned charge-point when you really need it.???
Jeff
Battery technology is making gradual rather than startling headway, with most likely solid state batteries being the next development. It seems as though we have to look to the east for hydrogen passenger car developments: Toyota, and now Hyundai, seem to be leading the charge [or probably more of a trot.!].
A very good point about being stranded in a BEV in a snow drift watching the battery drain away ... where's that damned charge-point when you really need it.???
Jeff
Accepting the fact that I am a Luddite / dinosaur I wonder whether an electric Cayman would be targeted at those who have little interest in cars, but want the brand and image that the Porsche brand supplies. I suspect that this is the way the market is going, a bit like watches.
I managed an evening in the Dales last Thursday which I could not do in an EV. Windows down, exhaust popping and echoing off the stone walls, sun shining and no-one to see or hear me. The dynamics would be similar in an EV, although probably heavier but with a lower centre of gravity. It would pick up out of corners faster and rocket up the hills, but all to the backdrop of whirring motor(s) and tyre roar/scrabble. Definitely different but not something I would spend money on.
Somehow the idea of a Cayenne or Macan EV is rather more compelling.
I managed an evening in the Dales last Thursday which I could not do in an EV. Windows down, exhaust popping and echoing off the stone walls, sun shining and no-one to see or hear me. The dynamics would be similar in an EV, although probably heavier but with a lower centre of gravity. It would pick up out of corners faster and rocket up the hills, but all to the backdrop of whirring motor(s) and tyre roar/scrabble. Definitely different but not something I would spend money on.
Somehow the idea of a Cayenne or Macan EV is rather more compelling.
John,
There's no doubting that the future EV equivalent of a petrolhead will be a different animal. Those of us who've grown up with the sounds of an IC engine will find it difficult to adapt to a very different soundscape I'm sure, with motor, tyre and wind noise becoming more prominent and with manufacturers introducing some contrived sounds into the mix too, though like you I'm not sure that I'll be buying into it.
The Taycan seems to have been well-received even by enthusiastic drivers, so Porsche have shown what can be done, and if the sports car is to survive it will have to make the jump to pure electric traction sooner or later.
Jeff
There's no doubting that the future EV equivalent of a petrolhead will be a different animal. Those of us who've grown up with the sounds of an IC engine will find it difficult to adapt to a very different soundscape I'm sure, with motor, tyre and wind noise becoming more prominent and with manufacturers introducing some contrived sounds into the mix too, though like you I'm not sure that I'll be buying into it.
The Taycan seems to have been well-received even by enthusiastic drivers, so Porsche have shown what can be done, and if the sports car is to survive it will have to make the jump to pure electric traction sooner or later.
Jeff
I agree with you Jeff. A bit like going from stereo to mono sound. However excellent the quality, mono is not quite the same, so lets add a screen and pictures. I am sure that Porsche will successfully address market demand with great products, but I increasingly realise I am out of step with the market.Motorhead said:
(I found myself looking longingly at an ad for a series 1 Exige, wishing I still had my series 2. The Cayman, even with the six pot, is still less of a sports car to me but is still the best compromise)
SUV anyone - something that weighs north of 2 1/2 tonnes, is the size of a small house, has a power-plant and performance that puts most 'quick' cars to shame. It is deeply impressive and of course I would love to have access to one for a while. It isn't a sports car but it becomes even more impressive with an electric power plant. It stirs different emotions (A 'road dominating presence' to quote Audi on their Q7 / Q8) Horses for courses I guess.
I'm sure that it's an age-related thing John, but like you I'm feeling myself out of step with some of the latest market developments - 'connectivity', touch-pad controls, etc. - although I'm not adverse to improved tech as such, and all these features set well with EVs of course.
I have an odd relationship with MPVs/SUVs, not having owned one myself. I rather like the lofty seating position as a passenger but on the rare occasion that I've driven one I haven't really enjoyed it very much, on the twisty bits especially, despite the excellent view out: I always have the feeling that I'm hanging on to the steering wheel! There's no doubting the popularity of the SUV as the current 'lifestyle' vehicle though, and you can see how seamless the transition from IC engine to battery power will be.
Jeff
I have an odd relationship with MPVs/SUVs, not having owned one myself. I rather like the lofty seating position as a passenger but on the rare occasion that I've driven one I haven't really enjoyed it very much, on the twisty bits especially, despite the excellent view out: I always have the feeling that I'm hanging on to the steering wheel! There's no doubting the popularity of the SUV as the current 'lifestyle' vehicle though, and you can see how seamless the transition from IC engine to battery power will be.
Jeff
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