Could the 718 replacement be an EV?
- Thread starter Motorhead
- Start date
AndrewCS
Active member
… Given my service in the oil and gas industry (or should I hide and say `energy industry`) I have been tempted to introduce a measure of reference to past politically influenced `all poor` energy supply decisions but doubt that the PC would survive it [>:]
" Renewable energy is energy that is collected from renewable resources, which are naturally replenished on a human timescale " Always thought that oil and gas was renewable, just takes a bit longer than others ...
Ha,Ha! Posted here a few minutes ago Andrew:
https://www.porscheclubgb.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=1043403&mpage=7
Great minds think alike. []
Jeff
https://www.porscheclubgb.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=1043403&mpage=7
Great minds think alike. [
]Jeff
AndrewCS
Active member
Aye … only two minutes between `the balloons` going up !
I tried to get involved with Hydrogen research / production many years ago, with the `multi` that I was here working for … t`was based in the USA and ended up being restricted to `locals only` … damn []
Obtuse thought - what to use the produced water for … the `detailing obsessives`?
I tried to get involved with Hydrogen research / production many years ago, with the `multi` that I was here working for … t`was based in the USA and ended up being restricted to `locals only` … damn [
]Obtuse thought - what to use the produced water for … the `detailing obsessives`?
It’s been a while since we touched on this subject so I thought I’d crank it up again, especially since it’s about a year since a decision was meant to be made about the 718 replacement. The 718 was announced in 2016 and apart from the F-4T engines was very much a development of the 981 which dates back to 2012, so the basic design is somewhat long in the tooth.
Although Covid probably will have had some effect upon development schedules I would have thought that we’d be seeing some development mules out and about by now but as far as I know the ‘snappers’ haven’t found anything, although it must be said that it would be easy to fit either a hybrid or full electric powertrain in a 718 for assessment, and I’m sure there must be some cars out there undergoing evaluation if the replacement is to be announced in 2023 at the latest. A silent 718 would be a bit of a giveaway!
Jeff
Although Covid probably will have had some effect upon development schedules I would have thought that we’d be seeing some development mules out and about by now but as far as I know the ‘snappers’ haven’t found anything, although it must be said that it would be easy to fit either a hybrid or full electric powertrain in a 718 for assessment, and I’m sure there must be some cars out there undergoing evaluation if the replacement is to be announced in 2023 at the latest. A silent 718 would be a bit of a giveaway!
Jeff
I agree John. VAG are investing a lot into pure electric platforms and I’m sure that some sort of sports car will figure in their lineup. Indeed, I’m pretty sure that the next Audi TT will be a BEV and whose platform Porsche could share.
Sports cars represent a niche and possibly contracting market, so as Dave says maybe there won’t be a 718 replacement, although as far as I know the Boxster/Cayman offering is still very profitable for Porsche.
With the Taycan Porsche have gained a lot of valuable experience which will be incorporated in future electric vehicles. Unlikely perhaps, but could a scaled-down Taycan could form the basis of the 718 replacement?
Jeff
Sports cars represent a niche and possibly contracting market, so as Dave says maybe there won’t be a 718 replacement, although as far as I know the Boxster/Cayman offering is still very profitable for Porsche.
With the Taycan Porsche have gained a lot of valuable experience which will be incorporated in future electric vehicles. Unlikely perhaps, but could a scaled-down Taycan could form the basis of the 718 replacement?
Jeff
Doubtful I think Dave. The Taycan is a much bigger car if you compare Cayman/Taycan dimensions:
Length 4379mm/4963mm
Width 1801mm/1966mm
Wheelbase 2475mm/2900mm
Nothing’s impossible but a Taycan platform would require a huge amount of fettling to get down to something approaching the Cayman’s dimensions, and that’s before considering battery, control and cooling packaging requirements.
Jeff
Length 4379mm/4963mm
Width 1801mm/1966mm
Wheelbase 2475mm/2900mm
Nothing’s impossible but a Taycan platform would require a huge amount of fettling to get down to something approaching the Cayman’s dimensions, and that’s before considering battery, control and cooling packaging requirements.
Jeff
Technetium
New member
Motorhead said:
The word within Audi seems to be that there won't actually be an TT replacement for the mk 3, which is further evidence (if confirmed) that the sports car market is shrinking fast. The R8 may well go the same way, with a feeling amongst many that the 'expensive sports car' corner of the market should be left to Porsche, as they do it better. It would thus be very bad news if Porsche decided to phase out the cayman/boxster, as that would only really leave the humble MX5 at the lower end. I know that the 911 is very profitable for Porsche, but not sure about the cayman.
There was an article in AutoExpress last week about the forthcoming new (BEV) version of the Macan (sleeker looking "coupe SUV"), which will obviously be Porsche's next major BEV offering in 2022. It will also be the first VAG car to sit on the new PPE platform. Plenty of references to the Taycan in that article, but no mention of the 718 ...
You could well be right Phil. With the car buying public’s current love affair with the SUV in all its forms, the traditional sports car market is under increasing pressure. Even Toyota are sharing platforms with BMW and Subaru to bring something to market and Nissan’s Z-car doesn’t look as though it’s going to be available in Europe owing to our stringent emissions requirements.
Porsche have expanded the Boxster/Cayman range significantly in spec and price, so you have to assume that it remains profitable, although I’m sure nothing like as profitable as the 911 range. Plus, Porsche have invested a lot of development time and money in the 4.0L 9A2 Evo engine so they’ll want to keep that in production for as long as possible, as indicated by the GT department’s stated desire to keep the GT cars naturally aspirated. Another complication to throw into the mix!
Incidentally, although I can’t see the Taycan being adapted for a 718 replacement, the current Macan dimensions would seem to provide a slightly better fit as a starting point assuming the BEV will be similar in size:
Length 4379mm/4696mm Width 1801mm/1923mm Wheelbase 2475mm/2802mm
Jeff
Porsche have expanded the Boxster/Cayman range significantly in spec and price, so you have to assume that it remains profitable, although I’m sure nothing like as profitable as the 911 range. Plus, Porsche have invested a lot of development time and money in the 4.0L 9A2 Evo engine so they’ll want to keep that in production for as long as possible, as indicated by the GT department’s stated desire to keep the GT cars naturally aspirated. Another complication to throw into the mix!
Incidentally, although I can’t see the Taycan being adapted for a 718 replacement, the current Macan dimensions would seem to provide a slightly better fit as a starting point assuming the BEV will be similar in size:
Length 4379mm/4696mm Width 1801mm/1923mm Wheelbase 2475mm/2802mm
Jeff
Looks like there’ll be no 718 after 2021
https://rennlist.com/forums/718-gts-4-0-gt4-spyder/1221733-2021-last-year-of-all-718-variants-production-confirmed.html
https://rennlist.com/forums/718-gts-4-0-gt4-spyder/1221733-2021-last-year-of-all-718-variants-production-confirmed.html
That’s interesting Dan. I don’t doubt the truth of the original post but sales people aren’t always the most reliable sources of information, and I wouldn’t expect the sales force to have any information on the MY2021 cars anyway right now.
I just can’t see Porsche halting production of a profitable line without there being a replacement even if electronic updates will be required to meet upcoming EU standards, the most notable addition being speed limitation. These measures will have to be implemented across all existing vehicles in the Porsche range anyway so incorporating them in a run-out vehicle shouldn’t be too onerous a task since the options are in place already - cruise control, speed limit indicator, lane change assist, etc., and all that should be required is package integration.
On top of that the CGTS 4.0 has only just arrived and it doesn’t make sense to shut down EU production after only a year. Although the US market is important to Porsche, so are the UK and Germany and there’s still no sign yet of the GT4 RS which will most likely be appearing sometime next year.
Jeff
I just can’t see Porsche halting production of a profitable line without there being a replacement even if electronic updates will be required to meet upcoming EU standards, the most notable addition being speed limitation. These measures will have to be implemented across all existing vehicles in the Porsche range anyway so incorporating them in a run-out vehicle shouldn’t be too onerous a task since the options are in place already - cruise control, speed limit indicator, lane change assist, etc., and all that should be required is package integration.
On top of that the CGTS 4.0 has only just arrived and it doesn’t make sense to shut down EU production after only a year. Although the US market is important to Porsche, so are the UK and Germany and there’s still no sign yet of the GT4 RS which will most likely be appearing sometime next year.
Jeff
There can be confusion about introduction dates for Euro regulations. The first is a date by which all new models require to be certified to the new standard and then a last resale date normally 12 to 18 months later. On this basis it is 32 years away at best / (worst).
This is a recent trade article which sets out the work programme for the introduction of Euro 7
This is a recent trade article which sets out the work programme for the introduction of Euro 7
Thanks Ralph. It seems as though there’s a long way to go .... plenty of jaw-jawing amongst the regulators, and lobbying too from the manufacturers.
Picking up on speed limiters and driver monitors, it seems that the legislation is due to come into effect from May 2022 for new models that haven’t been designed yet and May 2024 for new versions of models currently on the market, so the 718 shouldn’t have to be compliant.
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/speed-limiters-driver-monitors-become-mandatory-eu
Jeff
Picking up on speed limiters and driver monitors, it seems that the legislation is due to come into effect from May 2022 for new models that haven’t been designed yet and May 2024 for new versions of models currently on the market, so the 718 shouldn’t have to be compliant.
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/speed-limiters-driver-monitors-become-mandatory-eu
Jeff
I already have a "speed limiter and driver monitor" fitted in the passenger seat of whatever car I am driving.
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