Could the 718 replacement be an EV?

[Motorhead]

Ha, Ha! Indeed Ralph, the term “Intelligent speed assistance” seems very apt!

I hope that all this additional gadgetry is going to be guaranteed super-reliable. Nothing worse than sitting in the car with flashing warning lights and beepers going off and being unable to start-up. Of course, this is just paving the way for either semi or fully-autonomous vehicle operation.

Jeff

 

[GrahamW]

Looks like things are beginning to happen - https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/2022-porsche-boxster-and-cayman-get-hybrid-and-ev-options

 

[Twinfan]

Interesting. If true it would help justify the GT4RS - an ICE swansong for the Cayster platform.

EU7 regs must be tough?

 

[Motorhead]

Looks like things are beginning to happen - https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/2022-porsche-boxster-and-cayman-get-hybrid-and-ev-options

I’m afraid that you’re a bit late to the party with that link Graham. If you look on Page 2 you’ll see that I posted it (#35) in April 2019 and as I’ve said on a number of occasions, a decision was supposed to have been made on the 718 replacement about a year ago and nothing seems to have been reported since then. I haven’t even seen any spy photos of fairly representative mules out and about, which is what you’d expect if a replacement of any kind is going to be announced in 2022, and you’d think that the marketing department would be keen to drip-feed snippets of information to the press - as they have done with the Macan BEV for instance - if they want to trumpet such a radical change to their junior sports cars.

It’s highly probable that Porsche have got both hybrid and full electric Caymans and Boxsters running around in 718 bodies for evaluation purposes - probably with battery packs of various size and capacity onboard (in the cavernous front boot for instance?) - but that’s very different from what will be required for a hybrid let alone a full electric production car.

Of course it’s possible that Porsche will follow the Macan route and keep the 718 in production for a few years - possibly with some minor trim updates - while introducing its replacement in whatever form to run alongside the ICE version.

That’s just my take on the situation, but who knows what’s in the pipeline?

Jeff

 

[octupe]

Whats the minimum range you would accept from a fully ev cayman?

150 miles would be the minimum for me I think

 

[Twinfan]

Whats the minimum range you would accept from a fully ev cayman?

150 miles would be the minimum for me I think

Sports cars are for fun. A 2 ton electric vehicle isn't fun to me. So the range could be 1000m and I still wouldn't buy one...

 

[Motorhead]

Not that I’d be in the market for such a car Neil but I reckon I’d want a real world 250 miles minimum (WLTP 300 miles?) for even a non-daily fun car. And who knows what that would translate into if I wanted to use it for track days!?

Jeff

 

[AndrewCS]

I`ll take one of these https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUwRnBhtevE and / or this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3846KFDmFQ please ... enough for a fun shopping trip []

 

[Motorhead]

Wow! Some extreme tyre shredding there with all that low speed torque..!

Plenty of visual drama but an uninspiring soundtrack ... not that you’d notice it in-car when wearing a helmet and earplugs.

Jeff

 

[DWaldie]

Mmm. 180 miles on a charge for the workday run would equate to 40-50 miles of giving it the berries. I only use mine for fun, so I'll stick to ICE. Happy to have an EV for running around, but not for fun

 

[AndrewCS]

[h2]https://www.cars.com/articles/electric-vehicles-with-the-longest-range-422227/[/h2][h2]All ranges are based on EPA-estimated figures but are purely estimates[/h2][h2]Electric Cars With the Longest Range[/h2]1. 2020 Tesla Model S Long Range Plus: 402 miles 2. 2020 Tesla Model X Long Range Plus: 351 miles 3. 2020 Tesla Model 3 Long Range All-Wheel Drive: 322 miles 4. 2020 Tesla Model Y Long Range: 316 miles 5. 2020 Chevrolet Bolt EV: 259 miles 6. 2020 Hyundai Kona Electric: 258 miles 7. 2020 Kia Niro Electric: 239 miles 8. 2020 Jaguar I-Pace: 234 miles 9. 2020 Nissan Leaf Plus: 226 miles 10. 2020 Audi E-Tron: 204 miles 11. 2020 Porsche Taycan 4S: 203 miles

 

[Motorhead]

Thanks for that comparison Andrew. The only thing to point out that those figures are based upon the US EPA system rather than the WLTP system we use here and in Europe.

As this comparison shows, there can be significant differences between the two values for a particular car:

https://insideevs.com/news/414786/comparison-epa-wltp-range-ratings/

Interesting to note that the Taycan in particular appears to fare badly in the EPA/WLTP comparison.

Jeff

 

[Motorhead]

Good to see that there are ongoing developments in making lithium ion batteries lighter, cheaper and safer:

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/technology/under-skin-how-stanford-lightening-ev-batteries-lithium

Jeff

 

[Technetium]

Good to see that there are ongoing developments in making lithium ion batteries lighter, cheaper and safer:

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/technology/under-skin-how-stanford-lightening-ev-batteries-lithium

Jeff

I don't think this weight reduction will be anywhere near enough, even if it could be scaled up successfully.

As the article points out, the collector material only makes up about 30% of the total weight of a Li ion cell.

Claims from lab experiments are usually wildly optimistic, but even if we take the claimed 80% reduction in collector material weight, the reduction in the total weight of the cell would 'only' be about 35%. This sounds impressive, but its nowhere near enough to make a small EV sports car weighting around 1.2-1.5 metric tonnes.

Tweaking 20 year old battery tech is not going to work. Solid state is the only answer, long term, but scaled up prototypes are still a few years away.

Phil

 

[Motorhead]

I think you’re right Phil, in particular your comment that advances in the lab don’t always translate to significant gains in production, although incremental improvements do add-up over time. I suppose it all depends upon your definition of an acceptable timescale!

As you’ve said before, much is hanging on solid state battery developments.

Jeff

 

[Motorhead]

Very old news (maybe posted on here previously?) but this article indicates possible development routes for a Cayman full EV using either in-house or VAG resources.

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/volkswagen-id-r-sports-car-pioneer-secret-battery-tech

Jeff

 

[ralphmusic]

The future according to VW, happy to be old and grumpy

 

[Motorhead]

Interesting to note that a Porsche doesn’t appear to be included in the Broad product portfolio Ralph!

Jeff

 

[ralphmusic]

Not the only one, perhaps it means there won't be any Porsches?

Manufacturers can't make money on small EV of whatever flavour, but it remains a trade-off for the cost of fines... Such are the crazy economics of being green.

 

[Brian_Innes]

Not the only one, perhaps it means there won't be any Porsches?

Manufacturers can't make money on small EV of whatever flavour, but it remains a trade-off for the cost of fines... Such are the crazy economics of being green.

I'm inclined to agree with your comment Ralph. The range limitations associated with performance EV's will surely rule them out for the majority of keen drivers.

Just envisage this scenario for a moment.........

Taking your performance EV to a track day may involve a round trip amounting to several hundred miles. Once there, the EV will need to be pretty much fully charged before taking to the track, and even then hot laps will be severely rationed by available battery power. On the Silverstone GP circuit for example an EV may only be good for 3 laps before the warning bells start chiming. Although some tracks could install rapid chargers, this will not be as straightforward to manage as topping up with super unleaded.

With a heavy heart, I am very doubtful as to the long term future of Porsche sports cars as we know and enjoy them today. I was reading in the press this week that an environmental research group was highlighting the significance of air pollution particles resulting from tyre and brake wear. What hope for Cup 2's then?

I am only thankful I have lived in an era when ICE petrol engine development produced some of the best road sports car and track racing power units since their inception in the early 1900's.

As to the future of Porsche as a marque, a brand, and a community, I would not care to speculate.

Brian