Engine build progress

[TTM]

The engine mount was finally shaved and the belts are done.

As for the downpipe, PET actually shows two part numbers and contrary to what I said earlier the difference is apparently related to the presence or not of a catalysor, so it is not related to the model year. Without cat : 951 111 097 02 With cat : 951 111 098 02 All 90-on cars seem to have been fitted with a catalysor My "bigger" downpipe shown earlier bears the part number 951 111 199 2R.

 

[appletonn]

Excellent, informative post as always Thom. Cheers []

 

[Sly]

ORIGINAL: TTM We enjoyed a terrific running-in trip in central France last week. I drove Sly's car and yes, with 1.0 bar max peak boost it feels very much like a stock K26/8 car, only with PW/TQ curves scaled up. It should be great fun once the running-in is complete and peak boost is set at 1.2 bar.

My car is now set at 19psi, the boost pressure is as described under. There is some knock between 3500 and 4500 and after 5500rpm. On 5th gear : - 9psi at 3000 rpm - 15psi at 3200 rpm - 18psi at 3300 rpm - 20psi at 3500 rpm - 19,5psi at 4000 rpm - 19,5psi at 5000 rpm - 19,3psi at 6000 rpm - 18psi at 6500 rpm My actual setup : New 2,5L + 75lbs injectors + modified WG with stronger spring + modified snorkel + 3b fuel régulator + forge dump valve + big valves intake and exhaust + full LR 3" exhaust + LR75#8 T350 + VR MAF + VR piggy back + accuboost + bosch WR5DC sparkplug + knock view + zeitronix. Stock intercooler, stock airbox, stock intake line after turbo TTM engine will kick some asses when the car will be finished []

 

[Diver944]

Very nice boost vs RPM numbers Sly [] 20 psi by 3500rpm is very good going, most standard cars haven't even hit 10 psi by 3500rpm You did a test to 6500rpm in 5th gear? That's jolly fast [8D]

 

[Sly]

ORIGINAL: Diver944 Very nice boost vs RPM numbers Sly [] 20 psi by 3500rpm is very good going, most standard cars haven't even hit 10 psi by 3500rpm

Yes numbers are good but power realy come at 4000-4500 rpm before the car seems to stay with low acceleration... Don't know why...

ORIGINAL: Diver944 You did a test to 6500rpm in 5th gear? That's jolly fast [8D]

I test 5th gear only until 6100rpm[] the boost at 6500 is for 4th gear[]

 

[TTM]

Now looking to upgrade the intercooler but have little idea what to look for. What is the end tank modification on the original intercooler worth? A [link=http://mapage.noos.fr/tjmm/divers/Luc.jpg]friend fitted a rather large unit[/link] that goes almost all the way down to the bumper, which he got for about $150 off ebay and it seems to "work fine" although modifying the front cross brace was necessary - and I'd rather avoid touching the shell. Proper feedback and suggestions would be welcome.

 

[Diver944]

ORIGINAL: TTM A friend fitted a rather large unit that goes almost all the way down to the bumper,

That's the sort of front mounted intercooler (FMIC) I'd like to fit when I start doing extended track work again. I have Jon Mitchells version of the end tank modification and it is perfect for my current uses. I know that Nick_968 with his 3.0L 968 Turbo reported huge benefits when he fitted a large FMIC, and a very good drop in intake temperatures. Speedforceracing do an off the shelf version, but it is pretty expensive. Several of the Nordic posters on Rennlist have fitted an RX7 intercooler which is virtually the same size as Speedforce and can be bought for around the price that your friend paid. My own limited research has shown that you must use an intercooler designed to be front mounted so that it allows enough air through to cool the radiator adequately

 

[pauly]

How about a charge cooler ?.

 

[sawood12]

Also a FMIC means you can install a second oil filter in the location the stock IC went. Charge coolers don't seem to be that common at all. I know Lotus used them on the proper Lotus Espris with the 2.2 ltr turbocharged engine. In theory they are much more efficient than air coolers due to the density of water, but I think they are probably heavier and the installation is probably more tricky. Lindsay Racing sell something called the Thermal Hard Pipe which can be used instead of or in conjunction with an air IC which is basically a pipe you replace with one of your IC pipes that is basically a charge cooler. Not heard of anyones experiences of them though.

 

[pauly]

ORIGINAL: sawood12 Charge coolers don't seem to be that common at all.  I know Lotus used them on the proper Lotus Espris with the 2.2 ltr turbocharged engine.  In theory they are much more efficient than air coolers due to the density of water, but I think they are probably heavier and the installation is probably more tricky.

Are we talking about water cooled intercoolers or water injection ?.

 

[edh]

ORIGINAL: sawood12 Also a FMIC means you can install a second oil filter in the location the stock IC went. Charge coolers don't seem to be that common at all. I know Lotus used them on the proper Lotus Espris with the 2.2 ltr turbocharged engine. In theory they are much more efficient than air coolers due to the density of water, but I think they are probably heavier and the installation is probably more tricky. Lindsay Racing sell something called the Thermal Hard Pipe which can be used instead of or in conjunction with an air IC which is basically a pipe you replace with one of your IC pipes that is basically a charge cooler. Not heard of anyones experiences of them though.

second oil cooler?

 

[sawood12]

Ed, yep, you spotted my deliberate error[8|] Pauly - I'm pretty sure the Lotus espris had charge coolers (i.e. water cooled inter coolers), i'm sure i've read it somewhere. I've also seen chargecooler kits for Land Rovers in the Land Rover mags, but not heard of anyone retro-fitting to 944's.

 

[pauly]

ORIGINAL: sawood12 Ed, yep, you spotted my deliberate error[8|] Pauly - I'm pretty sure the Lotus espris had charge coolers (i.e. water cooled inter coolers), i'm sure i've read it somewhere.  I've also seen chargecooler kits for Land Rovers in the Land Rover mags, but not heard of anyone retro-fitting to 944's.

I guess it comes down to how hot the intercooler gets, I think there's also a temp controled setup that sprays water onto the intercooler to cool it.

 

[TTM]

Today we fitted the turbo on the engine and took off all parts that will be replaced preventively - brake master cylinder, heater valve, clutch master cylinder, pressure plate, throw out bearing guide.

As the clutch had always worked faultlessly I was not sure I wanted to replace it along with the engine, but we found out today it was a good idea to purchase a new one, as you can see from the following pictures. These are parts that supposedly have 174k miles.

Here is a small video that suggests the TO bearing is not quite new Although there is no indication of clutch replacement in the service history I believe at least the clutch disc was replaced at some point as it did not look as tired as its surroundings, coupled to the fact it worked fine. Before the new engine gets in we have to have the exhaust manifolds and X-over pipe rewelded at some places as they show minor cracks. Also waiting for minor parts that should be delivered on monday, such as the rear main seal.

 

[333pg333]

Thom, a little hard to tell but how close is the hot housing to your block and are you taking any precautions regarding this? There are charge coolers available but it would be a custom installation and not cheap. Can be done however and said to be very efficient.

 

[TTM]

ORIGINAL: 333pg333 Thom, a little hard to tell but how close is the hot housing to your block and are you taking any precautions regarding this?

Since it's as close as a usual KKK turbine will be, I see no special precaution worth being taken. We wrapped the downpipe and considered wrapping the whole turbine but thought it would be overkill. We might make a heatshield to protect the intake manifold from the heat but I think it will be overkill as well. Remember this is a road car that won't see any track duty.

 

[Sly]

I made a little electronic circuit to log the knockview with the zeitronix, it need some more little upgrade but it works[] Some log of my car see at 19H42 [link]http://www.toofiles.com/fr/oip/documents/zip/25-05-09.html[/link]

 

[Neil Haughey]

Great stuff. On the subject of charge coolers if you think about it the reason why the Esprit had one is fairly obvious. I have also seen kits for the Renault GTA / A610 for the same reason. On a front engined car it seems much less worthwhile but could in theory make for a nice short run from the turbo into the engine and hence less lag. The old Saab 900 had a popular aftermarket charge cooler kit for this reason and it meant that the standard pipe work on that car could be maintained. Given the location of the turbo on the 944 a charge cooler makes a lot of sense to me if you could fit it between the turbo and inlet manifold.

 

[Frenchy]

Allard Motorsport do all sorts of intercoolers and chargecoolers,check out their website.

 

[TTM]

The engine is in the car! We had the flanges of the exhaust manifolds resoldered on the outside as the original solderings showed minor cracks, then smoothed out the inside of the pipe and wrapped the manifolds with insulating "wool". We then blank-mounted the cross over pipe and noticed it had to put up with excessive strain between the turbine and the exhaust manifolds, so we heated it, let it stay mounted overnight and noticed the following day it had taken a better shape. We then fitted the crankshaft rear seal, the flywheel, adjusted the clearance of the TDC and starter ring sensors on the engine, machined the clutch bellhousing in order to fit the engine with the sensor bracket on it and lowered the engine in the car. The finish line is not far! (on a side note my digicam is slowly giving up the ghost, I changed work and moved back near the German border after 20 years in Paris, far away from Sly's garage, so as of now I have little time to post properly detailed messages with nice and shiny pictures - but I will try to post some pictures in the coming weeks).