EX-OPC DEMONSTRATOR

[TopBear]

ORIGINAL: Stuart Martin

For the test drives I have had, the dealer has taken the car out with me in the passenger seat, and run it for a few miles relatively gently until warm. Only then have they let me drive the thing.
If this is the norm, then I would guess that in general the demo cars may not be quite so thrashed as you might think.

My local dealer buddied me for my first test-drive, which was fairly gentle afair.......2nd time he just handed me the keys and said enjoy yourself, and I 'explored' it a bit more that time.

After seeing the way demo cars (and motorbikes) get treated, by prospective customers not interested in purchasing 'that' car, i wouldnt want to spend my hard-earned on a car abused so early in its life. Why, when you can buy a pristine new car for just a little bit more. Cancelled orders are in abundance if you want one in a hurry, and that way you dont pay ££££ for spec you didnt want in an ex-demo car

 

[daro911]

ORIGINAL: JCB..

I'd buy one of yours without hesitation.[]

But how would anyone know whether or not you had driven those 9k miles as though you had stolen it - dry miles or not?

JCB..

Thats an easy one to answer John ... but as you asked .... Tyre Tread Depth is an easy give away and the OPC used car buyer did a double check on mine as the tread depth was way above your usual cars at similar mileage []

 

[JCB..]

Thats an easy one to answer John ... but as you asked .... Tyre Tread Depth is an easy give away and the OPC used car buyer did a double check on mine as the tread depth was way above your usual cars at similar mileage

Robert

I was trying to be serious - you can get 4 new tyres for less than £500.

JCB..

 

[Guest]

£250-£300 each for my 987 Conti's!!!! Where did you seem tyres for less?

 

[Rodney Naghar]

Steve,

Try www.Mytyres.co.uk and http://www.johnsonstyres.com/acatalog/about.html for starters.

 

[JCB..]

£250-£300 each for my 987 Conti's!!!! Where did you seem tyres for less?

Protyre Gloucester - Part of the Mitcheldever group and I grew up with the Boss!

JCB..

 

[Delbox]

If Porsche anticipated that engine wear was a problem and that a running-in period was essential then it would specify an oil and filter change well before 20,ooo miles / 2 years! My BMW M3 required such a change at 1200 miles and, likewise, my Ford Focus RS. That Porsche does not require such a fundamental and simple precaution speaks volumes for its confidence in the engine!

 

[Guest]

Or you could argue that Porsche are just bowing to consumer demands and reducing ownership costs. I understand that the latest oils are "better" but letting a sports car go 2 years/20,000 miles between services seems madness, since a service covers more than just an oil change!

My lawnmower requires an oil change after the first 50 hours use or something, and if an M3 engine needs an early oil change too... these early oil changes usually involve removing bits of microscopic swarf from the bedding in process, what makes Porsche engines different? Have they changed the laws of Physics?!

And on the subject of "confidence in the engine", errr... what about slipped cylinder liners on the 2.5s and RMS failures... doesn't exactly inspire confidence in Porsche engines for me.

 

[Mark_Bennett]

I got the dealer to change the oil and filter when I brought my car in to the country 10 days after picking up from the factory (about 2000 miles!) I had to really force the issue though ("Trust me - I'm an engineer" [])

 

[Delbox]

I asked my OPC to change the oil and filter before delivery - because I was concerned that, if the car had been maltreated during demonstrations, it would afford the opportunity to see if any swarf was resident on the magnetic part of the sump plug. I was assured that such a change was wholly unnecessary!

 

[daro911]

ORIGINAL: Delbox

I was assured that such a change was wholly unnecessary!

[&o]Guess thats because they pretty much knew how the demo had been treated and didn't want to lose any margin with an oil & filter service which they claim costs them the same money as charged to Joe public

 

[Mark_Bennett]

ORIGINAL: daro911

[&o]... an oil & filter service which they claim costs them the same money as charged to Joe public

(We need a Rolling On the Floor Laughing smiley really badly here!)

 

[Delbox]

It wasn't going to cost them anything; as it was a non-standard request, I was content to pay - and offered to do so!

 

[JCB..]

Or you could argue that Porsche are just bowing to consumer demands and reducing ownership costs. I understand that the latest oils are "better" but letting a sports car go 2 years/20,000 miles between services seems madness, since a service covers more than just an oil change!

My lawnmower requires an oil change after the first 50 hours use or something, and if an M3 engine needs an early oil change too... these early oil changes usually involve removing bits of microscopic swarf from the bedding in process, what makes Porsche engines different? Have they changed the laws of Physics?!

And on the subject of "confidence in the engine", errr... what about slipped cylinder liners on the 2.5s and RMS failures... doesn't exactly inspire confidence in Porsche engines for me.

Is someone who is willing to part with upwards of £40k for a car really going to be that bothered if the car has a 12k or 20 service interval? How many buyers of new cars actually see even 12k miles in it before it gets p'xed for the latest model?

I think you should go along and watch what happens at service - if you have the car long enough you may witness the plugs being changed, brake fluid flush and renew or even the Polyrib belt being replaced. The rest is filters and inspection.

I think that a Porsche flat six engine is a little more sophisticated than a lawnmower engine and so is the oil that goes in it.

Modern production techniques means that the old idea of "running in" or "bedding in" is an outdated concept - if it was ever valid in the first place.

RMS and slipped sleeves doesn't inspire confidence it's the other 99% of Porsche engines that run for thousands of miles without issue that do that.

JCB..

 

[Guest]

The blinkers are strong with this one...

It's actually more pressure from lease companies than from private individuals, plus they need to be seen to keeping up with the competition.

Err... the electronics that control the Porsche engine are more sophisticated, and the machining tolerances will be superior, but otherwise the basic principles of operation are the same, and as I said earlier, you can't change the laws of physics, which are also why running in was/is a valid concept. Alternatively, let's look at Ferrari engines or Mitsu Evo engines that need oil and filter changes ever 4k miles or something daft, why do think that is? I mean they're pretty sophisticated engines so surely their service intervals should be 20k too?

And if Porsche are so confident about their products why don't they issue a 3 year warranty in the UK which has been pretty standard for many years now.

 

[JCB..]

The blinkers are strong with this one...

It's actually more pressure from lease companies than from private individuals, plus they need to be seen to keeping up with the competition.

I didn't understand the blinkers dig it went straight over my head mate.[8D]

So now you are saying it's leasing companies that are leading Porsche AG's and Oil companies technical research?

Err... the electronics that control the Porsche engine are more sophisticated, and the machining tolerances will be superior, but otherwise the basic principles of operation are the same

So your lawnmower has varioram, variocam, hydraulic tappets et al?

Ferrari engines or Mitsu Evo engines need oil and filter changes ever 4k miles or something daft, why do think that is?

Evo's Because they have a turbo perhaps?
Ferarri's probably because Ferrari say so - Not exactly a daily driver is it?

And if Porsche are so confident about their products why don't they issue a 3 year warranty in the UK which has been pretty standard for many years now.

I might be a little cynical here but I would say because:
a) They have no trouble selling cars with a 2 year warranty
b) A lot of people are quite happy to pay for extended warranty
c) Porsche appear to make a quality product.

since a service covers more than just an oil change!

I'd still like to know what else is covered in a contemporary Porsche service that is going to be at risk with a 20,000 service interval.[&:]

JCB..

 

[Guest]

So now you are saying it's leasing companies that are leading Porsche AG's and Oil companies technical research?

No, but if it was just the oil then old shape Poxsters would be able to use the new oil and have the new service intervals.

So your lawnmower has varioram, variocam, hydraulic tappets et al?

LOL! I said same basic principle of operation, i.e. 4 stroke cycle, spark plug makes it go bang etc...
But yes, even my Porsche kettle has varioram/cam/blah

Evo's Because they have a turbo perhaps?

So do 911 Turbot's and Subaru Imprezas for example and they have "reasonable" service intervals.

Ferarri's probably because Ferrari say so - Not exactly a daily driver is it?

Only because of their service interval, and round in circles we go....

I might be a little cynical here but I would say because:
a) They have no trouble selling cars with a 2 year warranty
b) A lot of people are quite happy to pay for extended warranty
c) Porsche appear to make a quality product.

Fair enough, if they can get away with it then fair play to them. Shame in the US they offer sometime like 4 years.
But doesn't change my point that it shows a lack of confidence in their own products.

I'd still like to know what else is covered in a contemporary Porsche service that is going to be at risk with a 20,000 service interval

Your wallet

But seriously, that's two years between inspections during which a lot of wear can occur, especially when driven hard.

 

[daro911]

ORIGINAL: jonathansbuk

But seriously, that's two years between inspections during which a lot of wear can occur, especially when driven hard.

[8D]Don't want to stop the banter as its so much fun [] but my daily driver MCS just went 18500 miles between services using the BMW service computer gizzmo. So far 28500 trouble free miles So if MINI can do it I am sure Porsche can too even though MINI do give 3 year warranty as standard and in fairness to the debate a MINI has to have a 1st service at 12 months or 10K miles. The subsequent services are then as per the computer read out

 

[Guest]

But was your MCS an ex-demo []

 

[daro911]

ORIGINAL: jonathansbuk

But was your MCS an ex-demo []

[]Good point well argued Nope because in common with most ex Porsche demos the price difference between brand new MCS and ex demo isn't $hed load$ of ca$h back