How important is the brand 'Porsche' to you?
- Thread starter zcacogp
- Start date
944 LIL
New member
[
][]How do I use the "report" function - is there an option to have miscreants struck off !! [
]Fair play though, its the most oft quoted "put down" - perhaps we could go slightly off thread and list the best one-liner retorts to such vexatious comments... Many years ago the Glasgow Kiss would have sufficed but I'm too old and soft now [
]
Suffolk944
Moderator
Generally German marques including Porsche dont get my blood pumping in the way that Italian or even some British ones do as I find them high on engineering but a bit low on soul. I had actually been planning to buy an Integrale at the time when I got my first 944 but having driven it and seen how so much better screweed together it was than the Italian machine I for once let my head rule my heart and have never regretted it. I also think that the front engined Porkers along with older 911's have a character and individuality lacking in alot of other German cars, including more modern offerings from Stuttgart.
The fact it was a Porsche was immaterial I was just hugely impressed by the car as an overall package and remain so to this day (even though I keep getting tempted to sell my current car to try "something completely different".) I think those who buy older Porsches generally buy them for the cars they are rather than as a lifestyle accessory (yes a sweeping statement but I think its holds true more or less).
The fact it was a Porsche was immaterial I was just hugely impressed by the car as an overall package and remain so to this day (even though I keep getting tempted to sell my current car to try "something completely different".) I think those who buy older Porsches generally buy them for the cars they are rather than as a lifestyle accessory (yes a sweeping statement but I think its holds true more or less).
pauljmcnulty
Active member
If it hadn't been for the original 924 with the van engine Porsche would have gone bust....[&:]
Be prepared for the VW/Porsche GTi coming soon ....[]
]perhaps to avoid 'porsche embarrasment' you could say you have an audi 944. ;p Car lovers would know anyway.
I remember having a 1/43rd scale 'politzei' toy 924 as a kid. I lost it and was pissed off for years. Now its real life cousin sits in the drive.
I wouldn't knock the VW engined 924, in fact now i have a 944 i keep wondering if i could sell the golf and buy the OH one. then we'd have two porsches - quite a nice his'n'hers set.
I remember having a 1/43rd scale 'politzei' toy 924 as a kid. I lost it and was pissed off for years. Now its real life cousin sits in the drive.
I wouldn't knock the VW engined 924, in fact now i have a 944 i keep wondering if i could sell the golf and buy the OH one. then we'd have two porsches - quite a nice his'n'hers set.
CVN187Y
New member
I think the 924 engine is a masterpiece.
1st developed by Mercedes Benz in the 1950's, then by Audi in the 1960's, then by VAG in the early 1970's and then finely tuned by Porsche. Thats three decades of development[]. A engineering masterpiece.
I have forgotten the right word, but all German Car makers used each others parts bin during the 1950's, 60s, and 1970's. It what makes them superb in engineering and quality from that period.
Its a shame what they make today is not that good.[]
1st developed by Mercedes Benz in the 1950's, then by Audi in the 1960's, then by VAG in the early 1970's and then finely tuned by Porsche. Thats three decades of development[
]. A engineering masterpiece. I have forgotten the right word, but all German Car makers used each others parts bin during the 1950's, 60s, and 1970's. It what makes them superb in engineering and quality from that period.
Its a shame what they make today is not that good.[
]
Dead right...it's famously quoted in a book about Lean Manufacturing that '80s 911s were sometimes effectively made twice, being driven straight off the line and back into Rectification. Subbing out the front engined cars to Audi generated cash and bought them time to sort things out..
Regarding the negative image, I've just remembered this joke from the last financial crisis (c 1989):
Q
What's the difference between a merchant banker and a pigeon?
A
A pigeon can leave a deposit on a new Porsche!
Nothing's changed...
Neil Haughey
New member
Well it is viewpoint I obviously don't subscribe to, but yes to some extent it is a bit of inverse snobbery, but
there is more to it then that. My generation has spent the last 20 odd years being bombarded by magazines
telling everyone you can buy a scooby or evo or whatever and get Porsche performance for peanuts. Likewise
a similar thing I bet with many Lotus buyers, they wanted something clearly focused on delivering performance
and are not bothered by nice leather interiors or all the mod cons. In this respect a Porsche looks very expensive. The modern reality is that Porsche is competing with BMW MB and Audi not really the jap brands etc as they appeal to completely different ppl. A stripped out CS version of the base Cayman 2.7 could readdress things but us enthusiasts have been wanting Porsche to build this sort of car for the past decade and it never appears which is why we are still knocking about in 944/968's etc.
Disinformation is the root of the problem really.
Alex Postan
New member
Oli, thank you for starting an interesting thread.
There is a leitmotif that runs through most of these posts and that is that the Porsche badge generates a perceived value that is highly negative to a proportion of our society. I find it sad that we sidestep our enjoyment of these cars and downplay the make and brand.
It seems to me that even though the Ferrari is the ultimate footballer/loadsamoney/nouveau riche/poser/speculator/show off/colour blind/taste free coffee table car, its image does not garner the same degree of opprobrium. So why should we meekly go along with a view that we don't adhere to?
Provided that we always say PorschE, then we should never adopt an apologetic stance; it is my view that you can tell a Porsche denier by the way they insist on pronouncing PorschE as porsh.
(BTW if you think that people disrespect Porsches, try telling them that you collect and admire Fords...[])
There is a leitmotif that runs through most of these posts and that is that the Porsche badge generates a perceived value that is highly negative to a proportion of our society. I find it sad that we sidestep our enjoyment of these cars and downplay the make and brand.
It seems to me that even though the Ferrari is the ultimate footballer/loadsamoney/nouveau riche/poser/speculator/show off/colour blind/taste free coffee table car, its image does not garner the same degree of opprobrium. So why should we meekly go along with a view that we don't adhere to?
Provided that we always say PorschE, then we should never adopt an apologetic stance; it is my view that you can tell a Porsche denier by the way they insist on pronouncing PorschE as porsh.
(BTW if you think that people disrespect Porsches, try telling them that you collect and admire Fords...[
])ORIGINAL: tscaptain
Interesting observation Neil, so if that's what it's not (which I agree with) what is it then? Does it apply to other manufacturers or just Porsche? And who are these ppl? Do I catch the whiff of a little inverse snobbery here? I certainly didn't buy mine to make ppl jealous and whatever they want to spend their hard-earned on is fine by me[
Cheers
Somewhat of a Berk[
I agree also, but I think it's a kind of jealousy. Allow me to try to explain...
The average person thinks they can't afford a Porsche. For the majority I imagine that that isn't really the case (as underlined by what I imagine is a common experience of the owners of the older models), but no matter; perception is more important than fact after all.
So, Mondeo Man sees the Porsche and believes he couldn't afford it, so the owner must "have" more than Mondeo Man, which in British (and New Zealand) society equates to an element of jealousy (I believe some other countries have a populace who would be pleased to see the "exotica" more than taking an instant dislike to the owner). Perhaps also Mondeo Man thinks not only could he not afford the Porsche but he couldn't own it as, being Mondeo Man with his blinkered view, he believes the car is not practical enough for his family circumstances and he would not entertain having multiple cars any more than multiple washing machines (his Mondeo is an appliance after all). I think the jealousy is of the lifestyle that allows the Porsche - what it symbolises if you like - rather than of the Porsche itself. The irony is that for us 944 owners Mondeo Man has nothing to be jealous of, other than perhaps a more open mind when it comes to cars.
It's always amused me how driving a Porsche makes me a flash git to an element of society who could easily be driving my car, but would not entertain driving a vehicle more than 2 or 3 years old so rule it utterly out of the question. They entirely miss the paradox that I drive a cheaper car that is so old they wouldn't even consider driving it yet I am still flash.
idwoodvale
New member
Never specifically had a thing for Porsches and never considered buying one until I had a ride in a mate's 'Y' reg Lux out of necessity. I was instantly hooked on the car regardless of the badge and bought it off him later that year for £1500 when he moved to France. When the fan died and it over heated 10 months later I bought my current car.
This one has certainly not been with out it's problems over the 6 years I've had it - cam belt, head gasket, gear box etc, now rust - probably fair to say it is not the best example.
Last year I sort of fell out of love with it and finally decided to get rid and went test driving...
Drove to a Honda dealer first, thrashed an S2000 around for a few miles and it was fun. Got back in the 944 and set off home. Within a few minutes of setting off home the affair was over, I was grinning at the feel of the car and the road underneath, the low down torque, the driving position, blah.. blah.
Couldn't tell you what the Honda was like to drive.
Sorry if this all sounds a bit dramatic but it is what a 944 is to me. It's the car I found by accident and had always wanted.
(when asked, I also drive an OLD Porsche)
This one has certainly not been with out it's problems over the 6 years I've had it - cam belt, head gasket, gear box etc, now rust - probably fair to say it is not the best example.
Last year I sort of fell out of love with it and finally decided to get rid and went test driving...
Drove to a Honda dealer first, thrashed an S2000 around for a few miles and it was fun. Got back in the 944 and set off home. Within a few minutes of setting off home the affair was over, I was grinning at the feel of the car and the road underneath, the low down torque, the driving position, blah.. blah.
Couldn't tell you what the Honda was like to drive.
Sorry if this all sounds a bit dramatic but it is what a 944 is to me. It's the car I found by accident and had always wanted.
(when asked, I also drive an OLD Porsche)
pauljmcnulty
Active member
Exactly.
Which is why my other half could buy her new Legacy, £16K ish, and cause no comments at work. The one day it was in for a service, my £1500 Porsche caused her a day of constant grief about the amount she was paid compared to the others. Perception, but a reality for the majority of people you meet on the roads, and in everyday life. [:'(]
Perception is always more important than reality. Such a good point.
I have to say, I do downplay the Porsche badge on the front of the car (hence the OLD porsche comments.) And I seem to avoid quite a lot of the "Flash Git - he's driving a Porsche" type attention. On the other hand, I have been pleasantly surprised on several occasions by the positive attention paid to the car - if I am working on it outside the house then a LOT of people will stop and talk about it for five or ten minutes, which is flattering (but doesn't help get the job done!) And I think I have had three people asking if they could buy it off me, in just over three years. Which is also flattering.
Oli.
Neil Haughey
New member
Probably not because to many that are in love with Italian cars are completely blinded by them. I think most of us on here are fairly realistic and are just as likely to drive a Skoda, legacy, Honda Accord, pickup truck, van or whatever is required to do the job. The more open minded you are the more aware you are of how ppl perceive you and your car choice.
Hilux
New member
Agreed, however to embellish it with my thoughts.........................
I know many people that drive nice modern cars. They like the security and accept the depreciation.
Even when they admit they would love an older or contemporary classic type car they will not (cannot) leave their comfort zones. Even when I point out the much lower depreciation of a `proper` car they still cannot (will not) grasp the nettle and accept that yes the older car `may` need work/maintenance but the 2/3K per annum (or more) depreciation they lose on their current cars will more than cover the running costs.
I used to get so much stick from others when in my Westfield (and from young drivers too) that I have to consider it was envy and jealousy for even if they wanted to they would never ever bring themselves to own one.
My motto all my life has been `drive what you like` not whats available and I`ve never had new cars (apart from company cars). I`ve always owned my cars and never had issues with huge depreciation or debt/credit which is why you get a lot of envy and resentment from Mondeo man. You can afford to drive your dream wheras his blobmobile has lost its shine and the initial excitement has gone and its a depreciating (boring) asset so he wonders how on earth you can do it!
George Elliott
New member
Great thread, and interesting to see that we dont drive old cars because we have to, its because: 1. they are nicer to drive, 2. they are cost effective, 3. the modern alternative is an unpleasant veneer of what Porsche was, - excepting a few GT models.
Going specifically to the brand question, I see it in a state of glacial progress, as are all brands.
Eventually they can become a victim of their success, some examples woould be :- the Cortina in the 1970's did it for Ford, BMW 3 Series in the 80's for BMW, Merc C&E-Class, in the 90's for MB, 996 for Porsche in 00's? These cars all sold strongly on the back of a broad appeal following a good previous model, coupled with weak competitive models around at the time - they made good profits because the bean counters engineered cost out in a short-term thinking error. Then 10 years later, the roads and autotrader are littered with cheap poorly maintained used examples which really harm "the brand". This is especially so if the subsequent models do not move the game on.
Porsche need to be careful of : Motorsport neglect, Product durability, Loyal customer contempt (£30k depreciation on a 997 turbo in 1 year), perhaps in the future, the temptation to do a new Seat sports car using the 996 as a base model, actually - that may not be so bad an idea.....(dont mention Skoda, I understand they have a strong distant heritage)
I know what it was, but what is "Porsche" ??
George
Going specifically to the brand question, I see it in a state of glacial progress, as are all brands.
Eventually they can become a victim of their success, some examples woould be :- the Cortina in the 1970's did it for Ford, BMW 3 Series in the 80's for BMW, Merc C&E-Class, in the 90's for MB, 996 for Porsche in 00's? These cars all sold strongly on the back of a broad appeal following a good previous model, coupled with weak competitive models around at the time - they made good profits because the bean counters engineered cost out in a short-term thinking error. Then 10 years later, the roads and autotrader are littered with cheap poorly maintained used examples which really harm "the brand". This is especially so if the subsequent models do not move the game on.
Porsche need to be careful of : Motorsport neglect, Product durability, Loyal customer contempt (£30k depreciation on a 997 turbo in 1 year), perhaps in the future, the temptation to do a new Seat sports car using the 996 as a base model, actually - that may not be so bad an idea.....(dont mention Skoda, I understand they have a strong distant heritage)
I know what it was, but what is "Porsche" ??
George
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