Inlet and exhaust upgrades???

[DivineE]

ps If so I will now go and re-read all posts by you on this thread with added respect factor to see if you gave any hints away about how you achieved such a nicely tuned car where others have failed?! < Must say though... not entirely sure about the way it was running in the video clip of the three stage rev limiter (if anyone else has seen that clip?)!

 

[333pg333]

DivineE, I think you may have the wrong person? Which clips are you talking about?
Dave, I look forward to your findings re the engine mount for the GT turbo. Would this be a similar or same mount for a 3076r as well? Can you put together all the bits to create a bolt on application for the GT series?

 

[Guest]

DivineE, unfortunately that person isn't me. [] It's actually Edman951 on Rennlist. His car is pretty cool, and I wish we would see more like it in our community, though it is a pretty decent amount of custom work.

Thanks Evil 944t, I appreciate the kind words. I just wish others were less hostile towards doing things outside of the norm. Wow, cnc'ing a custom turbo mount?! That would be AWESOME!

As far as wastegates go, the Tial 38mm will work just fine for most people's applications. Ultimately it really depends on exhaust flow volume. A 46mm will work fine too, however it is significantly larger and really only more necessary in a high hp application with a huge turbo, or big displacement (like a v8) because of the increased exhaust volume. In addition to Patrick, I also feel the 2 bolt flange design is maybe not quite as great as say a 4 bolt flange, though there are plenty of people using these on high hp cars in the import community just fine? Who knows. [] Personally, I'm going with a 46mm purely for fitment reasons because I hate those stupid, heavy Tial 38 adapter flanges to bolt up to the 944 stuff. The 46 is probably at least 3lbs lighter because of those adapters!

 

[eastendr]

If you look at page http://www.cannell.co.uk/944%20Turbo%20-%2073.htm on my web site, you can see the LR DPW and Tial 46mm side by side to compare valve sizes. The previous page also gives more external comparison.

Certainly the 'input' flange on the Tial 46 is a proper job, compared with the 38mm which has given so many problems with separating adaptor plates. Mine needs a good mount to the inlet port as this is the only support for the wastegate - the outlet vents to atmosphere through a short custom pipe.

I think the LR works quite well, but the Tial 46 seems to control boost a bit better. That's with an LR Super 75 / Garret T4e turbo.

This is the torque curve I was getting at the time

 

[Indi9xx]

We had seen so many cars fitted with nasty adapters for both the Tial38 and 46 that we developed our own entry and exit pipes for both wastegates. Especially the 38 adapter flanges which really are a real POS!

The real challenge was the 3.0 968 Turbo we recently built. Where the owner wanted to retain the 968 bell housing, there wasnt space in the 968 transmission tunnel to accomodate a wastegate in the usual position used on the 944 turbo. So we had to make some custom pipes to fit the Tial46 in a new location but using the original 944 turbo crossover... But then again that car was just a whole host of problems to overcome because we didnt want to to just be a 944 turbo in a 968 body.

I am a real fan of the Tial wastegates, I have seen many more problems with the Lindsey.

 

[Indi9xx]

Someone a couple of posts ago mentioned Danno... While I now feel the Guru chips have been passed in technology terms since his business was running, and I do know there are a lot of people who feel stiffed by him, I think he did a lot for the 944 tuning world in his day.. Its just he wasnt very good at completing orders and "robbing peter to pay paul" to coin a phrase.... I think with a better business head and him in a back room developing the products he would have gone far.

 

[eastendr]

The Tial 46mm didn't need adaptor plates - it simply bolted up. Best wirelocked, though.

 

[Indi9xx]

In an atmospheric venting application the 46 bolts up to the crossover just fine, but not to the link pipe back into the system when run in the recirculating configuration the flanges are different. We also used a bit of black magic in the exit pipe which we cant go to far into, but something used on the 944 turbo GTR.

We had seen so many hash jobs on that part.. we also paid attention to make the weight of the tial not be a problem... On the 46 we also redesigned the entry pipe to make it clamp up more securely and to avoid the heat related stress cracking on the standard entry pipe.

In the future I want to run some experiments with using a second wastegate, which in theory should help the turbo continue spooling during gear changes. Which should be interesting... another idea spawned by the GTR... It may fall flat on its face though! lol

 

[944Turbo]

ORIGINAL: Indi9xx

Someone a couple of posts ago mentioned Danno... While I now feel the Guru chips have been passed in technology terms since his business was running, and I do know there are a lot of people who feel stiffed by him, I think he did a lot for the 944 tuning world in his day.. Its just he wasnt very good at completing orders and "robbing peter to pay paul" to coin a phrase.... I think with a better business head and him in a back room developing the products he would have gone far.

Interstingly I do know he did repay someone over here (for a wastegate that wasnt supplied) about a year and a half after he dissapeared from rennlist - the 2 earlier visits from the sherriff may have had an affect on this - but it was some time after and no further action was being taken.
Anyway the point was his off the shelf chips surpassed those of the then leading? UK tuners custom chips. I know things have moved on, Jons off the shelf chips were superior to the guru chips in my car. Anyway I was just using it as an example of how a standalone is only as good as the setup.
Tony

 

[944Turbo]

My 38 with adaptor plates does get some extra support from the original support bracket, i had to bend it and swing it round to fit. The Tial is all new parts the lindsey is only part new.
Tony

 

[944Turbo]

Wastegate i found in racing application - not a 944 though

 

[944Turbo]

would make one hell of a road car

 

[evil 944t]

Travis,

Yes, a full billet mount. I'm basing it off the gt35 but it will be two piece so I can change mounts for different turbos. I'm almost do drawing it in solidworks and I will get a price on the metal on friday or monday.

I might need some tooling for the Haas, we'll see. When I buy tooling, thats when things add up$$$.

Dave

 

[Guest]

That's sweet Dave! Even though I technically have the stuff to make mine work, you can count me in for one of those turbo mounts if you plan to do a run of them for sale! Adapter stuff is great and all when it works, though nothing beats doing it right the first time!

 

[333pg333]

How much difference does it make when you vent to atmos? What are the differences too?
So with a billet mount for the GT's what else can be pre-fabbed or is there a limit to that and you have to deal with each application individually?

 

[944Turbo]

Its LOUD! but in theory it frees up the exhaust as it only has gas thats gone through the turbo - when the wastegate is open.
Tony

 

[eastendr]

ORIGINAL: 944Turbo

Its LOUD! but in theory it frees up the exhaust as it only has gas thats gone through the turbo - when the wastegate is open.
Tony

What he said !
[]

 

[DivineE]

~Just to give you something to think about on this topic I was speaking to a chap who builds the exhausts for rally cars (he seemed to know his stuff too!) I asked him about designing me an exhaust dumping to atmosphere to avoid pressure in the exhaust and he said that its not as good as the standard design, infact he really liked the design used on the 944?!

According to him the added gasses do not pose a problem because they join the main exhaust far enough away from the engine and it creates a possitive effect because the flow of exhaust gasses create a vacuum affect which draws the gasses away from the wastgate avoiding back pressure. I'm only relying on his word but he was building the exhausts for the current Citreon WRC cars a year or so ago and they did quite well;-)

 

[Fen]

NZ951/Machtig Turbo on Rennlist did some testing before he was banned for good and he showed an improvement (6bhp rings a bell) with a vent to atmosphere wastegate on his car.

 

[333pg333]

I'm guessing he wasn't using a Lindsey wg either!!!!
Oh also a bit offtopic but I thought if I can't mention it here where can I? This Tuesday I'm doing a track day at Eastern Creek which is one of our best tracks in Australia. The morning session is taken up by Hot laps in a GT2 driven by an absolute legend in Aussie motor racing, a guy by the name of Jim Richards. Google him. He has been around decades and has raced and won in all manner of vehicles. I'm pretty sure he's raced at LeMans in a 924 CGT also. He's into his 50's but is currently coming 4th in our Carrera Cup series so he's still going strong. I met him recently at a PClub day at Simmons wheels and cornered him to ask about his 944 turbo which he's modified into Cup specs to race in our Targa events. He was very enthusiastic about his 952 to the point of saying he preferred it to his GT2 but was restricted to a certain power level so the GT2 was too quick to leave in the garage. I am going to try and coax him into my car. Never know if you never ask??? Should be a great day anyway capped off by heaps of laps in the arvo. WhooHooo!!!