KW v.3's on an S.2........

[Neil Haughey]

I will be doing similar when my GAZ set is fitted by my brother in a couple of weeks time. I have read up on the net and it seems that if we index 4 splines anti-clockwise on the inner end and 4 splines clockwise on the outer end we should theoretically get the correct drop to keep the suspension in the same place I had before (car already lowered a lot at rear). This should drop the car very roughly 1.5" which is 1/2" to compensate for the weight reduction and an inch for the coilovers extra spring rate over the 27mm torsion bars. TBH I am tempted to just index round 1 spline which gives a 9 degree change and then just set the height back up using the coilover adjustment, anyone done things this way and think is it a simpler way of doing things?

It isn't rocket science but the design of the rear suspension on our cars and the fact it uses torsion bars do not help at all, I designed a set of springs for one of my cars about 10 years ago and got it pretty much spot on without knowing either the free length or the rate of the original spring. I just had to calculate it using the mass of the car, suspension geometry and the length of the spring as on the car. I got the calculated drop correct to within 2 mm, not so confident on this car though I suspect a certain amount of trial and error.

Something else that worries me with the GAZ rears is of course no helper spring so perhaps the torsion bars need to be indexed round a lot to avoid the coil flopping about on lift. Having a soft helper gives one some room in this regard but as already mentioned surely the suspension is designed to be on the main spring only with the car sat level. True dual spring setups do not have mega soft helpers, AFAIK all of these systems with soft helpers exist to stop the main spring flopping about.

 

[sawood12]

Neil, there are no helpers on the rear coil-overs on KW's, it is just one complete spring. There is on the front though. I think the trick is to set them up such that the spring is always under load unless the car is completely off the ground.

 

[TTM]

All KW V3 sets I saw had helper springs all round. How old is your set Scott?

 

[sawood12]

Apols, i've just looked at that photo blown up and I think it does have the two springs - the plate between them is obscured by my drive shaft. The larger spring is cylindrical in cross-section, whereas the smaller 'helper' spring are flattened in cross section. You can see the difference above and below the drive shaft in the blown up photo. You can see it clearly on the Promax link:-

http://www.promaxmotorsport.com/

I thought those small springs were there to work in combination with the larger one to provide you with an overall progressive spring rate.

 

[Big Dave]

Pauly,
As it happens, ive just taken delivery of my nice new shiny GAZ race kit.....[][]
+ as far as im aware the KW is already sold,, you were just TOO slow...
Scott, The rears DEFINATELY have a helper + its there to do just that,, To HELP, + stop the main spring from coming out of its top hat under full extension...

Flippin heck , does nobody actually read these posts properly...????? Ive just said ALL this in my recent post....[8|][8|][8|][8|][8|][8|][8|][8|][8|][8|][8|][8|]

Anyway. in your sig, it says you have KWv3.. Havnt you looked at it...???? Or had you forotten you had it fitted....???? You should know what its all about...?????????????????????

Neil
If you want full intructions on the correct height to set you T bars at, just drop me a pm....Or call me if you have my tel no....Its easy once you know how....[][][][][][]

PS. I apologise if this post seems a tad agressive, BUT im getting sick of all this "debate" over this KW kit, mainly done by people who havnt got it OR even been in a car with it fitted....[Damn internet experts]...Talking out of there backsides......[8|][8|][8|][8|][8|]

 

[pauly]

ORIGINAL: Big Dave UK

Pauly,
As it happens, ive just taken delivery of my nice new shiny GAZ race kit.....[][]
+ as far as im aware the KW is already sold,, you were just TOO slow...

PS. I apologise if this post seems a tad agressive, BUT im getting sick of all this "debate" over this KW kit, mainly done by people who havnt got it OR even been in a car with it fitted....[Damn internet experts]...Talking out of there backsides......[8|][8|][8|][8|][8|]

Made up my mind a while back to buy new Dave, just wonder how the Gaz kit does without the helper springs though, in the meantime take a chill pill [].

 

[333pg333]

Looking forward to your reviews on the new GAZ goodies Dave and Neil.

 

[sawood12]

ORIGINAL: Big Dave UK

Pauly,
As it happens, ive just taken delivery of my nice new shiny GAZ race kit.....[][]
+ as far as im aware the KW is already sold,, you were just TOO slow...
Scott, The rears DEFINATELY have a helper + its there to do just that,, To HELP, + stop the main spring from coming out of its top hat under full extension...

Flippin heck , does nobody actually read these posts properly...????? Ive just said ALL this in my recent post....[8|][8|][8|][8|][8|][8|][8|][8|][8|][8|][8|][8|]

Anyway. in your sig, it says you have KWv3.. Havnt you looked at it...???? Or had you forotten you had it fitted....???? You should know what its all about...?????????????????????

Neil
If you want full intructions on the correct height to set you T bars at, just drop me a pm....Or call me if you have my tel no....Its easy once you know how....[][][][][][]

PS. I apologise if this post seems a tad agressive, BUT im getting sick of all this "debate" over this KW kit, mainly done by people who havnt got it OR even been in a car with it fitted....[Damn internet experts]...Talking out of there backsides......[8|][8|][8|][8|][8|]

Dave you should know by now how much we just love to debate a handful of topics to death. Then once we've debated them to death we'll debate them some more. Then after that we'll wait a few more weeks until someone else raises the subject again and the whole process starts again!!! It's not just KW - it's Oil, wheel offsets, rusty sills and half a dozen other topics. I suggest next time this topic comes up you put your fingers in your ears, close your eyes and hum a few versus of your favourite tune!

 

[zcacogp]

ORIGINAL: sawood12
Dave you should know by now how much we just love to debate a handful of topics to death. Then once we've debated them to death we'll debate them some more. Then after that we'll wait a few more weeks until someone else raises the subject again and the whole process starts again!!! It's not just KW - it's Oil, wheel offsets, rusty sills and half a dozen other topics. I suggest next time this topic comes up you put your fingers in your ears, close your eyes and hum a few versus of your favourite tune!

Mods, we have a mole. (And I don't mean one of these:

) We can't allow this ... fellow ... to spill the forum secrets in this way, nor can we allow him to publicise the means of avoiding annoying threads.

Can someone please ban him? For life, if not for having a red 944 ... either will do ...


Oli.

 

[Big Dave]

I dont think its the frequency of these topics, its the utter c**p that is typed + beleived by some of these "so called experts" that rubs me up the wrong way.
Then when somebody who actually knows what there on about gets totally ignored....[][][][][].
Its not just on here. It happens on most forums....Its been a hard week........[8|][8|][8|][8|][8|]

 

[333pg333]

ORIGINAL: sawood12

ORIGINAL: Big Dave UK

Pauly,
As it happens, ive just taken delivery of my nice new shiny GAZ race kit.....[][]
+ as far as im aware the KW is already sold,, you were just TOO slow...
Scott, The rears DEFINATELY have a helper + its there to do just that,, To HELP, + stop the main spring from coming out of its top hat under full extension...

Flippin heck , does nobody actually read these posts properly...????? Ive just said ALL this in my recent post....[8|][8|][8|][8|][8|][8|][8|][8|][8|][8|][8|][8|]

Anyway. in your sig, it says you have KWv3.. Havnt you looked at it...???? Or had you forotten you had it fitted....???? You should know what its all about...?????????????????????

Neil
If you want full intructions on the correct height to set you T bars at, just drop me a pm....Or call me if you have my tel no....Its easy once you know how....[][][][][][]

PS. I apologise if this post seems a tad agressive, BUT im getting sick of all this "debate" over this KW kit, mainly done by people who havnt got it OR even been in a car with it fitted....[Damn internet experts]...Talking out of there backsides......[8|][8|][8|][8|][8|]

Dave you should know by now how much we just love to debate a handful of topics to death. Then once we've debated them to death we'll debate them some more. Then after that we'll wait a few more weeks until someone else raises the subject again and the whole process starts again!!! It's not just KW - it's Oil, wheel offsets, rusty sills and half a dozen other topics. I suggest next time this topic comes up you put your fingers in your ears, close your eyes and hum a few versus of your favourite tune!

....er isn't that 'cills'? hehehehe

 

[PJS917]

ORIGINAL: Big Dave UK
"so called experts" [8|][8|][8|][8|]

Dave, just remeber expert is derived from too words :-

Ex = has been

Spert (Spurt) = drip under pressure.

I would always be wary of anyone that thinks they are an expert on anything[][][][]

 

[Big Dave]

ORIGINAL: PJS917

ORIGINAL: Big Dave UK
"so called experts" [8|][8|][8|][8|]

Dave, just remeber expert is derived from too words :-

Ex = has been

Spert (Spurt) = drip under pressure.

I would always be wary of anyone that thinks they are an expert on anything[][][][]

Nice one Pete....[][][][]

 

[wolfie308]

Well after much deliberation, I've bitten the bullet and booked my car in on the 26th with RPM for the KW's and a host of other bits.

Hoping to feel an appreciable difference over the original 143k standard set up. Still one question out of curiosity......were the torsion bars set differently on standard cars to those factory fitted with Mo30?

Will report as soon as I get the car back and have tried it over a few familiar 'wobbly' roads....and fast roundabouts.

Price check today showed MSW cheapest if you want to fit yourself at £1,183 - Demon T £1,300

RPM are offering £1321 fitted, which given all the apparent benefits over replacing with stock items, seems to make it a no brainer [8D] - the total bill with the other stuff will however be somewhat higher []

 

[TTM]

ORIGINAL: wolfie308
Still one question out of curiosity......were the torsion bars set differently on standard cars to those factory fitted with Mo30?

Non M030 S2 have 24 mm torsion bars, M030 S2 have 25.5 mm torsion bars.
I don't think it will make much of a difference when fitting KWs...

Congrats for taking the plunge, you will love them!

 

[333pg333]

Congrats. You won't regret them. I assume that price includes re indexing the T bars.

 

[wolfie308]

No, not including re indexing and plus geometry.....the car's not for track days, so for 'enthusiastic' road use, I thought I could get away with it, whilst maybe not exploiting their full potential. The other thing is the scenario of 'while you're there' ....might as well do the brake and fuel lines......and maybe the clutch whilst it's all apart?

 

[333pg333]

Well I would certainly get them to re index otherwise your rear will sit too high in the air and really partially be a waste of the time and money to go to all the trouble and expense of the exercise.

 

[Big Dave]

Pat.
We have SO been there before..... If you read all the above posts.....[8|][][8|][][8|][][]

 

[wolfie308]

I am well aware that this a contentious point, but I made my decision after seeing and more importantly, driving, Ron Smith's car which had previously been fitted with Mo30 but had NOT been re indexed. Ron - could you confirm this hadn't been done by a previous owner?

His car sat demonstrably lower than mine and the ride was definitely a mile better. If I can achieve something similar, I won't be disappointed. In addition, I'm having 968 castor mounts, Powerflex bushes, new front discs, pads and calliper overhaul, so I'm expecting to feel a huge improvement...fingers crossed.

Just a thought - anybody else running KW's on an S.2 with previously standard factory suspension who hasn't re indexed? Their comments would be much appreciated.