LIL has full boost and full revs
- Thread starter Diver944
- Start date
DivineE
New member
Out of curiosity I recently saw a seriously modified lightweight 800rwhp toyota supra track car which was using 275wide rear tires and had no problems putting its power down. Perhaps we are getting over obsessed with width and need to spend more time looking at suspension set up etc.
Ben
p.s. Paul you never answered my question about how different if at all the car felt to drive with the MAF fitted? Acceleration wise?
Ben
p.s. Paul you never answered my question about how different if at all the car felt to drive with the MAF fitted? Acceleration wise?
Diver944
Active member
Sorry Ben. To be honest I was so distracted and frustrated by the damned whistling and whooshing when it was first fitted that I couldn't really notice anything and probably stayed away from the boost as much as possible to stop my blood pressure rising. I find it very difficult to tell anything with seat of the pants dynos anyway. I mean it was obvious when I first started using 16psi on the AFM that the car was damned fast and the dyno proved it at 100bhp over stock, but simply fitting the MAF and running at 15psi was hardly going to give a massive increase. Maybe another 10 or 20bhp, but it's all a case of diminishing returns and you're not going to notice small increases like that.
I think Jon took her out for a quick test after I dropped her off as he hasn't driven her for a while and he posted on Rennlist that he could feel the improvement. When we get the piggyback dialled in and run at 18psi I am hoping it should be more noticeable [8D]
Diver944
Active member
Well it's been a long time coming, but hurrah I have finally been back out on track. Funnily enough my last trackday was an evening at Bedford in April 2005 so it was only fitting that the return should be at the same place. LIL has spent the past two weeks down at Jons having the Vitesse Piggyback system fitted to the MAF kit and I picked her up on Friday evening, getting back to Northampton at around 10pm
Saturday morning dawned extremely wet as the weather man had predicted but undeterred I set off with my track tyres nicely packed in the boot just in case it dried out later which was also forecast. When the MAF was first fitted the car was boosting with a pretty safe AFR of just over 12:1 but now that the Piggyback is fitted it is a little leaner at close to 13:1 so I made the decision to run at very low boost (13psi 0.85bar) until we get it dialled in properly. I also limited myself to 5000rpm as this was a shakedown day after a long rest. Due to the extremely wet and slippy track this was also a good idea [
]
First part of the days proceedings was the obligatory static noise test measured at the exhaust pipe. Saturdays limit was 101db but LIL passed that easily recording only 93db at 3/4 revs (4500rpm). When the track opened it was very slippy and many people could be seen slipping and sliding their way round through many sideways moments and the occasional half spin. My second lap out rewarded me with a slow speed (30mph) half spin at the first hairpin as my slumbering feet were trying to remember how to trail brake into slow corners [8|] Luckily there was only one stoppage all day when a BMW M3 (I think) wandered into the gravel trap, this only took 5 minutes to extracate. Just before lunch the track was dry enough to start overheating my road tyres and promoting a rapid wear rate, so with the help of my son we changed over to the track tyres which are designed to last ages on track (well they do when I drive [])
LIL performed faultlessly all day (well she was hardly stressed []) and for the first time ever I didn't have to top-up the oil after any of the sessions. This is a regular and VITAL process with 944 Turbos as they do tend to use oil on track and if you let it get low there is a large risk of damaging the No.2 main bearing in the engine [] The extreme low down grunt of thie 3.2 engine combined with the very short straights at Bedfords West circuit meant I only needed to use 3rd and 4th gear all day long. Very relaxing and very lazy. I did try 2nd in the two hairpins but it was too much hard work trying to control the wheelspin in the damp and 3rd gear was quite happy from around 2500rpm anyway.
The only downside to the whole day was as I started to press on in the afternoon, the amount of noise from the turbocharger and the dumpvalve set off the drive by noise limit of 87.5db so I got a black flag and a warning that if I did it again I couldn't go back on track. We worked out that it had happened because I had started changing gear just slightly earlier down one of the straights and the huge WHOOSH from the dump valve was happening right next to the microphone. A new limit of 4500rpm and gentle gear changing down that straight saw me through to the end of the day (today I shall be experimenting with Dynamatt sound proofing in the engine bay, we can't have that happeninng again with a quiet 944 [])
I had my bulletcam rigged up in the car so here is a 3 minute taster of LIL's return
http://s91.photobucket.com/albums/k293/diver944/Videos/?action=view¤t=Bedford24thFeb.flv
Saturday morning dawned extremely wet as the weather man had predicted but undeterred I set off with my track tyres nicely packed in the boot just in case it dried out later which was also forecast. When the MAF was first fitted the car was boosting with a pretty safe AFR of just over 12:1 but now that the Piggyback is fitted it is a little leaner at close to 13:1 so I made the decision to run at very low boost (13psi 0.85bar) until we get it dialled in properly. I also limited myself to 5000rpm as this was a shakedown day after a long rest. Due to the extremely wet and slippy track this was also a good idea [
]First part of the days proceedings was the obligatory static noise test measured at the exhaust pipe. Saturdays limit was 101db but LIL passed that easily recording only 93db at 3/4 revs (4500rpm). When the track opened it was very slippy and many people could be seen slipping and sliding their way round through many sideways moments and the occasional half spin. My second lap out rewarded me with a slow speed (30mph) half spin at the first hairpin as my slumbering feet were trying to remember how to trail brake into slow corners [8|] Luckily there was only one stoppage all day when a BMW M3 (I think) wandered into the gravel trap, this only took 5 minutes to extracate. Just before lunch the track was dry enough to start overheating my road tyres and promoting a rapid wear rate, so with the help of my son we changed over to the track tyres which are designed to last ages on track (well they do when I drive [
])LIL performed faultlessly all day (well she was hardly stressed [
]) and for the first time ever I didn't have to top-up the oil after any of the sessions. This is a regular and VITAL process with 944 Turbos as they do tend to use oil on track and if you let it get low there is a large risk of damaging the No.2 main bearing in the engine [] The extreme low down grunt of thie 3.2 engine combined with the very short straights at Bedfords West circuit meant I only needed to use 3rd and 4th gear all day long. Very relaxing and very lazy. I did try 2nd in the two hairpins but it was too much hard work trying to control the wheelspin in the damp and 3rd gear was quite happy from around 2500rpm anyway.The only downside to the whole day was as I started to press on in the afternoon, the amount of noise from the turbocharger and the dumpvalve set off the drive by noise limit of 87.5db so I got a black flag and a warning that if I did it again I couldn't go back on track. We worked out that it had happened because I had started changing gear just slightly earlier down one of the straights and the huge WHOOSH from the dump valve was happening right next to the microphone. A new limit of 4500rpm and gentle gear changing down that straight saw me through to the end of the day (today I shall be experimenting with Dynamatt sound proofing in the engine bay, we can't have that happeninng again with a quiet 944 [
])I had my bulletcam rigged up in the car so here is a 3 minute taster of LIL's return
http://s91.photobucket.com/albums/k293/diver944/Videos/?action=view¤t=Bedford24thFeb.flv
sawood12
New member
Well Paul you certainly were going very well considering you have not been out on track for nigh on 2 years. Lil was looking and sounding fantastic. When you overtook me (which happened several times through the day!) the sound from behind was simply awsome - it was like a jet fighter on a low fast fly-by at an airshow - a truly unique sound. I tried to hang onto your coat tials a few times but could only manage to stay within a reasonable distance for maybe half a lap.
It was a superb day and nice to have damp conditions in the morning to give us a bit of variation and even up the score a little as the pace really picked up in the afternoon and when Andy Sweatnham got his slicks on he was flying and smoking the vast majority of the others on track - just goes to show what a well driven standard 944 is capable of - he wasn't exactly hanging around before he put the slicks on.
I think the prize for the day goes to the looney in the Volvo 8-series estate who was powersliding the car every lap onto the main straight.
By the way Paul, I don't think you've attached your camera footage.
It was a superb day and nice to have damp conditions in the morning to give us a bit of variation and even up the score a little as the pace really picked up in the afternoon and when Andy Sweatnham got his slicks on he was flying and smoking the vast majority of the others on track - just goes to show what a well driven standard 944 is capable of - he wasn't exactly hanging around before he put the slicks on.
I think the prize for the day goes to the looney in the Volvo 8-series estate who was powersliding the car every lap onto the main straight.
By the way Paul, I don't think you've attached your camera footage.
eastendr
New member
There's a thought ... LIVINGSTONE's ultimate dilemma - a PRIUS 4X4 [
] [] [] [] [] []A good day out. I'll have the pictures up in the usual place by Tuesday.
No 944 casualties. Unfortunately we didn't manage to get them all together for the traditional group photograph.
My 'car of the day' was an orange 3-door Cosworth shell fitted with a 5 Litre V8 Mustang engine that was flying!
Driver of the day was Andrew Sweetenham - stunning watching him demolishing faster machinary!
I'll post a link when the pics are uploaded.
Peter Empson
PCGB Member
I think the trouble with these drive by tests is that they don't take into account the fact that the high frequency induction noise doesn't travel as far - its so directional it'll get deflected by buildings and the like before it gets anywhere close to nearby houses. Using something other than 'A weighting' would solve this, but I guess the council wouldn't want to know...
Anyway, it was a great day yesterday (even considering I turned up to a trackday in a van [&o] and couldn't stay that long).
All the 944's seemed to be going very nicely and it was nice to see the 9M S/C 968 out as well.
Thanks to Andrew for demonstrating what his car would do on slicks, the grip was simply brutal. Nothing got past when we were out []
Not sure I could get used to the way they seemed to break away suddenly at the very limit though, a very strange 'on ice' feeling (at least from the passenger seat), I guess this must be because they don't have the lateral resistance of a normal tyre. Doesn't stop me wanting to get a set though, so I'll be on the lookout for a scruffy set of spare wheels soon []
I also had the privilege of a ride in Des's 964RS cup car. I've never made it a secret that I lust after a '64 RS, but this one must be the ultimate. The whole feel of the car was very special, even in comparison to a standard lightweight RS I've been in. It communicated everything, even as a passenger it was completely involving. Oh and the noise... I'm smitten! []
Best regards,
Peter
Anyway, it was a great day yesterday (even considering I turned up to a trackday in a van [&o] and couldn't stay that long).
All the 944's seemed to be going very nicely and it was nice to see the 9M S/C 968 out as well.
Thanks to Andrew for demonstrating what his car would do on slicks, the grip was simply brutal. Nothing got past when we were out [
]Not sure I could get used to the way they seemed to break away suddenly at the very limit though, a very strange 'on ice' feeling (at least from the passenger seat), I guess this must be because they don't have the lateral resistance of a normal tyre. Doesn't stop me wanting to get a set though, so I'll be on the lookout for a scruffy set of spare wheels soon [
]I also had the privilege of a ride in Des's 964RS cup car. I've never made it a secret that I lust after a '64 RS, but this one must be the ultimate. The whole feel of the car was very special, even in comparison to a standard lightweight RS I've been in. It communicated everything, even as a passenger it was completely involving. Oh and the noise... I'm smitten! [
]Best regards,
Peter
eastendr
New member
ORIGINAL: Davyboy
The Clio was on the cool down lap [
Nice to see the Yellow Supercharged 968 move out of your way.......I don't think he wanted to be overtaken by a car with only half the power....until that is, he overdrove and span in tandem with a 944 [
I don't think I'd go down the route of a Supercharged 968. There seems to be something missing!
AndrewS
Member
ORIGINAL: Davyboy
The Clio was on the cool down lap [
Nice to see the Yellow Supercharged 968 move out of your way.......I don't think he wanted to be overtaken by a car with only half the power....until that is, he overdrove and span in tandem with a 944 [
Hi Dave,
Can you let me have Simon's email address?, I ran out of fuel on the way home just before Newport Pagnell and he just happened to cruise up minutes later is his blue Scooby and very kindly went out of his way to get me some fuel. I was up and running again within 10 mins thanks to him. Not only that, but he provided that valuable service free of charge - a great and kind gesture and hugely appreciated.
Good to see everybody yesterday. I'm next out at Castle Combe on March 24th (Saturday PCGB event) if anybody fancies the experience.
Regards,
Andrew
Diver944
Active member
ORIGINAL: Davyboy
The Clio was on the cool down lap [
It was the only way I could get a shot of you [
] I truly love following a similarly matched car when it's driven by someone I know and trust. That Clio Cup is such an accomplished track car, nowhere near the power of our beasties but the lightweight and nimbleness more than makes up for it in the corners. In the tricky damp conditions Dave was able to keep his foot planted round many corners where the rest of us were vainly trying to feather our way round whilst pointing in the right direction.Best few laps of the day for me were coming up behind the Dave in the Clio when he had been sat on the tail of the 968 for a few laps. Down the straights the 968 would pull out a small gap, but the Clio closed it back down again on the curves, a perfect demonstration of the different laws of physics in operation. I'm just so annoyed that I didn't have my camera on for those laps, especially when we all closed on one of the other 944s and there was a synchronised spinning session right in front of us [
] No harm done but it would have been great footage []hartge bob
New member
Just wanted to add my thanks to Scott, Andrew and of course Paul for all the passenger laps I was treated to throughout the day []
Being able to compare LIL back to back with both Scott and Andrews turbo's it is amazing how different the delivery in power is.
Even though LIL was running in low boost, rev limited format, the power is just sooo smooth in it's delivery, it feels like a huge capacity, normally aspirated engine.
It's also clear how much low down torque is available as Paul was taking the hairpin in third and still able to get the back end moving about under power, the more standard turbo's were taking it in second to get the same punch out of the corner.
LIL has a completely different sound from the outside too, which could clearly be heard from the pits even when Paul was over the other side of the track []
Thoroughly enjoyable day all round
]Being able to compare LIL back to back with both Scott and Andrews turbo's it is amazing how different the delivery in power is.
Even though LIL was running in low boost, rev limited format, the power is just sooo smooth in it's delivery, it feels like a huge capacity, normally aspirated engine.
It's also clear how much low down torque is available as Paul was taking the hairpin in third and still able to get the back end moving about under power, the more standard turbo's were taking it in second to get the same punch out of the corner.
LIL has a completely different sound from the outside too, which could clearly be heard from the pits even when Paul was over the other side of the track [
]Thoroughly enjoyable day all round
Hilux
New member
Nice to see the Yellow Supercharged 968 move out of your way.......I don't think he wanted to be overtaken by a car with only half the power....until that is, he overdrove and span in tandem with a 944 [
I dont know what power the 968 had BUT it didnt handle that well, wasnt much quicker (if at all) than mine and I overtook it twice at different sessions........................
.......................I was overtaking it a third time when we both span [&:][&:]
When I get a mo I`ll compile a resume of the new suspension/tyres etc and what I found and think so you can all comment/laugh [&o]
Interesting to see the mitsi Evo`s spinning off when it was wet and also the scoobys struggled in the damp. The scoobys picked up as it dried out but all that torque sensing/power proportioning technical wizardry aint that good IMO
The volvo V70 estate driver had gonads the size of an elephant, but he had very nice tyres [
]The clios were awesome, the track really suited them. Its made me think about getting one actually [8D]
From what I saw in the film the 968 was being driven by a novice (which is fine, we all have to start somewhere). Nice car to start racing in though!
Paul's lines were much better even though he was taking it easy. Did anyone else take some film? I'm missing the track and love seeing anything with our cars in it.
Paul's lines were much better even though he was taking it easy. Did anyone else take some film? I'm missing the track and love seeing anything with our cars in it.
Big Dave
New member
Paul
Nice vid clip m8...
But i almost felt a bit sea sick watching it... All that body roll....[][][][]
You NEED to get some "proper" suspension now to compliment the BOOST....[][][]...
The 968 If it was the 9M superchaged job,, as far as i know it had KW fitted..+ it has 420bhp....BUT the driver needed some lessons on driving Bedford,, those lines were rubbish...He missed every apex by a mile...[8|][8|]. If it had been driven by Mark 9M youdv not got close....[][][][]
Nice vid clip m8...
But i almost felt a bit sea sick watching it... All that body roll....[
][][][]You NEED to get some "proper" suspension now to compliment the BOOST....[
][][]...The 968 If it was the 9M superchaged job,, as far as i know it had KW fitted..+ it has 420bhp....BUT the driver needed some lessons on driving Bedford,, those lines were rubbish...He missed every apex by a mile...[8|][8|]. If it had been driven by Mark 9M youdv not got close....[
][][][]Thanks Riverside. Nice going. Looks like stock seats which are fun just trying to stay in the cabin I found on my one and only meeting when I first had the car. Stock suspension too? What tyres and mods are you running? Nice to hear the motor revving out a bit too. Damn I hate this waiting for parts when there's tracks to be driven on out there![]
]
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