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LIL has full boost and full revs

Glad to see someone else finally on the PFC's. I was starting to think Fen and I were the only believers. Wait until you get them onto a longer circuit Paul and see just how good they are at pulling you up from some real speed. Good to hear you're on the KW's too. Now for the R888's and a decent LSD and you'll be laughing![:D] When are you guys at another meeting? Take plenty of in-car film for us track starved junkies. Oh, and if anyone's interested there's some really good in-car footage on the US 968 site well worth watching.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4725827659355942762&q=968+mid+ohio&hl=en
edit. For some reason this link doesn't get you there. Hmmm...well Dave or Fen may be able to post it as they go on that site from time to time. It's in the 'Racing' part on their forum and the thread is titled
"968 or 944 turbo for the track?". Definitely worth a look.
 
ORIGINAL: Riverside

Hilux's car looks virtually the same as mine from a distance, possibly it wasn't me that was following you. I wasn't recording all the time & I didn't record Des's pax session in my car (after lunch I think), I discovered afterwards that I'd left the camera on playback instead of record [8D]

My geometry was set up by Promax too & was neutral under power moving to understeer on a steady throttle which was spot on for the conditions and as Fen of his describes my back end was very well planted as the track dried out. I had a few 'moments' in the wet where the back end stepped out (where yours would have spun it's inside wheel I guess) after the hairpin & a couple of other driver-related issues but couldn't really fault the balance of the car. Not sure how much of an influence the LSD was on the understeer but there was never a point (wet or dry track) where I wished I didn't have one, I think you're right to consider fitting one to yours.
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Yeah in the morning I was following for a while in the very damp conditions and the balance of your car did look really good. I remember that we talked about damper settings and ISTR that you softened up the fronts at the same time as I made mine stiffer. In the dry I got slight understeer around the palmer curves and of course if I went into the high speed left hander after the back straight too quickly I got a bit of understeer. Everywhere else the car was either neutral or very slight oversteer as on the last corner onto the main straight (is it me or is there a slight downhill patch on the exit that slightly unloads the car?), I think most of you guys got a pretty similar balance?
 
With the way mine is set up the only time I got any slide was if I came in far too hot to a tight corner (which I tended to do every lap at Oulton's chicane, 'cos I'm not as good as the car). Besides that there was only a very slight settling when the tyres were hot - no high-speed under or oversteer. Obviously I could have gone faster, but by the time I had got the track down I was far from the slowest out there. I also did have at the back of my mind that it might let go all at once with the amount of cornering force it could build up and Oulton is not the place to discover your car corners really fast and then lets go suddenly.
 
ORIGINAL: Fen
It is possible that there is a KW/Weltmeister car I don't know about, but I suspect it's unlikely as most people who would want the kit would have spent time on a forum to gather information to make the decision....

I did get my Weltmeister bars from Promax, but supply only as shipping was cheaper through them and apart from one open day my car has never been and will never be near their premises. My KW came from Stuart at K300 and I got the settings from the ...
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Hi All,

We have set-up other KW cars. Not every 944 Turbo & 968 owner uses the forums and some are quite happy with the professional advice and guidance we provide alone.

I have 10 years of experience setting up cars (both race and track) and discussed Paul's car with Roger (who set-up the geometry with Kevin in Brackley). The set-up was applied after careful review and consideration. However, it is only when driving the car that it can be fully dialled it. Paul did ask me to try his car on Saturday - but unfortunately, I was busy exploring the limits of my own car and didn't get a chance. Paul - I'm happy to do this at the next open pit lane day we both attend.

I don't mean to sound arrogant, but I do know a thing or to about getting the most out of a 944 Turbo on the track. I have raced these things competitively and that teaches you more than you can imagine.

Paul's car has to work as a road car. We did consult with KW but applied the settings in accordance to the way Paul wants to use and drive his car (there was very little difference). Paul's car could use better tyres - the Falkens are a good road tyre but the suspension really demands something better like the Pirelli Dragon C, Michelin Pilot Sport Cup or even a slick tyre. Essentially Paul's car could benefit from a much grippier tyre.

Once we have the KW set-up fitted to my car, I will be able to provide some further information on this excellent 944 Turbo suspension solution. ProMAX Motorsport hope to find the time in April to do this.

How about we try and arrange another open pit lane day that all could attend? There are plenty more days at Bedford this year. What do you all think?

Regards,
Andrew
 
Once we have the KW set-up fitted to my car, I will be able to provide some further information on this excellent 944 Turbo suspension solution. ProMAX Motorsport hope to find the time in April to do this.
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Hi Andrew,

Do you know a ballpark figure as to how much a KW set-up would cost?


 
Thanks Andrew for the advice I got from you. It was refreshing since for years I have heard talk about geometry/suspension settings that just don't seem right to me, and your advice was 90+% close to what I was feeling and thinking about with the car both before and after Bedford i.e. my ideas haven't really changed at all, Bedford just confirmed my thinking. OK I might be different in that I have a cheapo koni approach not KW. For those that were not on the track it was obvious that there was Andrew on slicks and then everyone else at another lower level. I might have a big ole head but I will always take advice from people that demonstrate what they are talking about on the track where it matters!
 
Oi - no bickering on my LIL thread! [:D]

Getting back to the point (ie my car [:)]), today I shall mostly be driving round at 18psi boost with a near perfect AFR level. I have spent this week tuning the fueling using the Vitesse Piggyback and I have to say that despite my dreading this part of the project it has been an absolute joy. The software is so easy to use and with possibly less than two hours of logging, plotting and adjusting the car can now maintain a near perfect 11.8:1 AFR through to the red line at 18psi boost.

John at Vitesse has obviously helped me also and has sent a couple of suggested maps to try after I sent him the Wideband logs after each run. Next thing is to fine tune the part throttle and cruise settings so that the car doesn't drink a tank of fuel just popping down the shops and then in the future we need to possibly improve the timing also.

Tomorrow I shall be getting a new gearbox and shares in a tyre company - dang she is fast now [:eek:]
 
Hi Paul,

Sure - its about £1,400 for the suspension and about £600 labour in total to fit and set-up. Best to get an exact quote from Brackley - but budget for about £2,000 and you'll be pretty close. It assumes the front top mounts are OK - often these are past their best and often other suspension components are found to be worn too.

Regards,
Andrew
 
ORIGINAL: Diver944

Oi - no bickering on my LIL thread! [:D]

Getting back to the point (ie my car [:)]), today I shall mostly be driving round at 18psi boost with a near perfect AFR level. I have spent this week tuning the fueling using the Vitesse Piggyback and I have to say that despite my dreading this part of the project it has been an absolute joy. The software is so easy to use and with possibly less than two hours of logging, plotting and adjusting the car can now maintain a near perfect 11.8:1 AFR through to the red line at 18psi boost.

John at Vitesse has obviously helped me also and has sent a couple of suggested maps to try after I sent him the Wideband logs after each run. Next thing is to fine tune the part throttle and cruise settings so that the car doesn't drink a tank of fuel just popping down the shops and then in the future we need to possibly improve the timing also.

Tomorrow I shall be getting a new gearbox and shares in a tyre company - dang she is fast now [:eek:]
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Hi Paul,

Sounds excellent! Did I see you mention a BookaTrack day? Is it a weekend day? Anychance you might let me sample your car? [;)] There is a Bedford evening with Circuit-Days in late May also.

It sounded great! The engine did look like a work of art - clean art too.

Regards,
Andrew
 
Paul it's time I saw her again. I need to come out for a ride soon! Also since I know nothing of these things are these tuning maps like a saved file which could be copied from one piggy back system to another? I'm just curious how he is sending you maps from the US. It's fantastic technology!
 
ORIGINAL: Diver944
Getting back to the point (ie my car [:)])
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Shame I didn't get a chance to say 'hi' (apart from at the gate[:D]) but your car did sound awesome as the boost came in past the pits, the loudest noise seemed to my ears to be the wastegate (tearing sound from the exhaust), I'd guess that was what tripped the noise meter as you passed it.

Neil you're right I'd forgotten that I adjusted the shocks (thanks for letting me borrow your adjuster, where did you get it from?), it did improve the front end grip in the morning but the basic traits as I described above were the same. My final run (the one in the vid I posted earlier) was without a passenger & the car felt much better balanced with only me in the car. The track conditions varied over the day though so it might just have been because the track was properly dry by then.

I'd like to do another Bedford day later in the year too, I'll keep an eye out here & on Titanic & try to make it if I can. Can't wait to finally meet you in person too Fen [;)]
 
The adjuster came with the koni inserts. I just leave it in the glovebox. What I did notice is that you guys have a dust cap over the top of the shocks where as the dust caps that came on the inserts are no good once fitted i.e. they cover the whole thread which you can't see once the rod is in the top mount. Not sure if I need some kind of dust cap or not.
I believe you can buy the adjuster from someone like Demon wallet tweakers, but it is probably not worth the expense.
 
ORIGINAL: AndrewS

Hi Paul,

Sure - its about £1,400 for the suspension and about £600 labour in total to fit and set-up. Best to get an exact quote from Brackley - but budget for about £2,000 and you'll be pretty close. It assumes the front top mounts are OK - often these are past their best and often other suspension components are found to be worn too.

Regards,
Andrew
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Other companies obviously available, Stu ( K300 ) the 968 register secretary also deals with both KW and Koni parts at a good price [:)]

I have to say I am so impressed with your car Paul... Infact it was the main driver to get my car down to Jon (9xx) and have it all sorted... The only snag is I have that turbo itch now [:mad:]
 
No imminent worries re my gearbox Scott, I was just being flippant now that I am using the full 18psi

Andrew the Bookatrack day at Donington is Sunday 18th March. It looks like there are still plenty of places, though I haven't confirmed mine yet as I need to double check that my passenger can make it [8|]

Ben, the Piggyback can hold any number of fuel and ignition maps. Each map is just a configuration file with lots of parameters. The system is so easy to use that you can simply log a run on a Wideband and then compare the output with the Piggyback before making adjustments. You can even email John at Vitesse a copy of the Wideband log and also the Piggyback log and he will make the changes for you and email back an altered map to try. Once you get the hang of it its nice to see that the changes you've already made are the same that John will recommend when he sends his map through [:)]

Here is my latest map at 18psi. Slightly lean at 12.5:1 to help reduce lag as the turbo starts to spool up and then hovering around 11.6:1 when on full boost.

nice.jpg
 
Paul, is the system closed loop or open i.e. is it linked into the O2 sensor and maintains the AFR according to your programmed profile, or is it an input which you have to calibrate?
 
No system is closed loop on wide open throttle, it only comes into play under cruising conditions.
 
Why doesn't it run closed loop on WOT? Does WOT mode just throw as much fuel into the system as possible?
 
Under WOT you don't want stoichiometric ratio as it's too lean and you'll get too high an EGT.

It doesn't just chuck in loads of fuel; that's when the map is used so it actually accurately provides the correct fuel based on the parameters set by the mapper - under closed loop you wouldn't need a map as the car would fuel to keep the lambda at 1.0.
 
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