Looking to buy a mint 951 turbo s

[Hilux]

Afternoon all, I`m a new member []

Apologies for double posting but I wasnt sure if viwers would read this in the `wanted` section

I am looking for a mint red 951 (silver rose spec) turbo s etc etc with all the bills and history.

I might consider an S2 SE but have always fancied the turbo, in fact I`ve always fancied an aircooled porsche ever since I saw the silver 930 Turbo on the cover of autocar (or was it motor) in 1976 but I never seemed to be able to afford one.

I have seen a nice one for sale near Bristol and wondered if any experts out there would have a look at it with me. I`ve done my research re what to look for and can mechanic (see my web site) myself.

I am looking at it either next Friday morning 18th March or Sunday morning 20th march.

If the car is fully serviced with all the documentation/history and the owner even tells me to ring the porsche specialist for reference, can I still be caught out without a comprehensive porsche inspection?

Kind regards

 

[Fen]

I'm sure it's just the way it came across but you do know the 944 isn't air cooled, don't you?

As we told someone else a week or so ago colour first is the wrong way to do it. Also the Turbo and S2 are far from interchangeable and you should really decide which you want before you buy.

Lastly, "near Bristol" and "independent specialist". Which one? One I can think of in Bristol has a bad reputation. What sort of year / mileage / money / history / mods does it have?

 

[Guest]

There is a turbo HERE don't know if it's mint (you''ll be lucky). From what I have heard the price is what you pay, no haggling.
Guitarman has a s2 for sale.

 

[Hilux]

I'm sure it's just the way it came across but you do know the 944 isn't air cooled, don't you?

Yup, 944 is nearest compromise

colour first is the wrong way to do it

Acknowledged, however I have recently seen a mint genuine silver rose (still for sale) and the purple plaid purple dash etc is awful IMO, I dont want a white one and I`ve yet to view others

Garage is Porschetech in/near Bristol?????????????? anyone know it?

The car is a 10K 99,000 (silver rose spec) black leather interior) all past mots, complete comprehensive history, just had new clutch (S2 type?) and linkage etc fitted

Owner claims theres not one scratch or dent yet in the photos, of the four bonnet edge rubbers, three are missing (odd for someone selling a minter)

I am finding out that good turbos are harder to find, I have heard tales re chain tensioning failures on the 16valvers and understood that the turbos had spring tensioners fitted and also didnt have such disastrous consequences when they failed.

I also wanted a turbo so as to `tweak` it as I and a couple of Porsche owning friends like the odd track day. Also I have had some serious (power/weight ratio) westfield/ginettas etc so I like to play with my cars. (actually I`d love a scruffy 944 purely for track days but am put off by the potential expense if it goes wrong)

I also note the uprated diff brakes, gears, turbo and in particular the tuneable Mo30 suspension etc on the turbo S, does the S2 benefit from all of that, if so I might broaden my horizons a bit.


Thanks in advance for your help



Paul

 

[Fen]

By all means avoid colours you don't like, just don't get too blinkered into looking for one specific colour, especially as you are concerned about condition and you seem more interested in the car to drive than to pose it (a good thing in the eyes of the people on here you'll find).

I'd get a Turbo too based on what you say. Basically unless you are happy with the standard performance of the S2 they aren't the car to buy as you'll never get all that much more out of them without blowing £5k on a supercharger. By going for a 250 Turbo you'll also get LSD, bigger drive shafts, stronger first gear, bigger brakes and the biggest of the standard ARBs. You also get air con and usually leather if trinkets matter to you. Don't worry too much about the Silver Rose spec though as a later Turbo will be largely the same except the suspension and that will likely be knackered on any 944 so ready to be replaced / rebuilt. You can also get M030 on later cars; Slim has an H-plater with M030 and no sunroof which is a fantastic spec IMO.

Porschetech is the place. I haven't used them personally but I have heard first hand bad reports about them, in one case charging a lot to fix things and actually making them worse so that the car had to go elsewhere to be rectified with an even bigger bill. It's a shame as they are quite close to my office but I got the message: avoid.

For £10k private sale you should get the best of the best and even from a dealer it should be special for that money. Sadly a £10k private asking price doesn't always go with the best car and you can often easily find a better car for £8k or even less. I'm not sure what you mean by bonnet edge rubbers.

The S2 (and S) have the postential for cam chain problems but I think you are slightly confused. All 944s have a timing belt also and there is no difference here between late Turbos and S2s in terms of reliability and tensioning method; they are identical. Basically they are best changed every 36k or 36 months (Porsche say 48/48 but why risk it?) and they need a tension check 1,500 miles after fitting. It's still a disaster if the belt breaks on either engine but they rarely do and never if looked after (that I know of at least). The belt runs the cam off the crank pulley and in the twin cam 16 valve engines the chain runs the second cam off the first. Because it isn't checked at all as part of the Porsche maintenance schedule it may not have been looked at and could now be causing problems 13+ years after manufacture.

Use the search as there are a couple of threads with more info on Turbo vs. S2 and general things to look out for.

Edited to add: The Turbo and S2 clutches are different. The S2 has a rubber centre as a shock absorber and the Turbo has more traditional springs. Both can fail before the clutch has worn out and neither is "better" but I don't know why anyone would fit an "S2 style" clutch in a Turbo [&:]

 

[wizard]

Here is a start for you
http://www.clarks-garage.com

I beleive this is quite a respected site amongst people here.

 

[wizard]

Am I correct in thinking a Turbo S is actually a 952 and not 951. My boot sticker says 952.[8|]

 

[Fen]

952 is RHD. Non-Turbos are technicall 945s.

 

[Guest]

ORIGINAL: Hilux

Acknowledged, however I have recently seen a mint genuine silver rose (still for sale) and the purple plaid purple dash etc is awful IMO, I dont want a white one and I`ve yet to view others

Garage is Porschetech in/near Bristol?????????????? anyone know it?

The car is a 10K 99,000 (silver rose spec) black leather interior) all past mots, complete comprehensive history, just had new clutch (S2 type?) and linkage etc fitted

Owner claims theres not one scratch or dent yet in the photos, of the four bonnet edge rubbers, three are missing (odd for someone selling a minter)

I am finding out that good turbos are harder to find, I have heard tales re chain tensioning failures on the 16valvers and understood that the turbos had spring tensioners fitted and also didnt have such disastrous consequences when they failed.

I also wanted a turbo so as to `tweak` it as I and a couple of Porsche owning friends like the odd track day. Also I have had some serious (power/weight ratio) westfield/ginettas etc so I like to play with my cars. (actually I`d love a scruffy 944 purely for track days but am put off by the potential expense if it goes wrong)

I also note the uprated diff brakes, gears, turbo and in particular the tuneable Mo30 suspension etc on the turbo S, does the S2 benefit from all of that, if so I might broaden my horizons a bit.

Thanks in advance for your help

Paul

Shame you dont like black!!!

 

[Guest]

ORIGINAL: slim_boy_fat

Shame you dont like black!!!

that is a real shame, i've seen a very clean example 944 Turbo in panther black one with low miles and is alwas shiny as a shiny thing withthe sun shining on it - think it was selling for £12,250ono

 

[Hilux]

I'm not sure what you mean by bonnet edge rubbers.

The four little rubber blocks that sit in the wing gutters (2 each side)

shiny as a shiny thing withthe sun shining on it - think it was selling for £12,250ono

`kin `ell it would have to be the DB`s for that money. I saw an 11k one yesterday with delaminated front/back screen and tatty bits all round []

Shame you dont like black!!!

Why? I PREFER red but want the `right` car.................

 

[Guest]

ORIGINAL: Hilux

I'm not sure what you mean by bonnet edge rubbers.

The four little rubber blocks that sit in the wing gutters (2 each side)

shiny as a shiny thing withthe sun shining on it - think it was selling for £12,250ono

`kin `ell it would have to be the DB`s for that money. I saw an 11k one yesterday with delaminated front/back screen and tatty bits all round []

Shame you dont like black!!!

Why? I PREFER red but want the `right` car.................

Due to changes in circumstances i may have to step donw from Porker ownership, and mine is black, with a pretty handy spec.

 

[Hilux]

Whats the spec etc I am much more broadminded at the mo having seen some rubbish over the weekend

 

[Fen]

ORIGINAL: slim_boy_fat
Due to changes in circumstances i may have to step donw from Porker ownership, and mine is black, with a pretty handy spec.

I hope if you do have to sell you can at least find room for one of those gutless, cheap S2 things in its place. []

 

[Guest]

ORIGINAL: Hilux

Whats the spec etc I am much more broadminded at the mo having seen some rubbish over the weekend

Drop me an email and i can send you some pics and a run down of the spec.

 

[Guest]

ORIGINAL: Fen

ORIGINAL: slim_boy_fat
Due to changes in circumstances i may have to step donw from Porker ownership, and mine is black, with a pretty handy spec.

I hope if you do have to sell you can at least find room for one of those gutless, cheap S2 things in its place. []

I've tried that fen, he's having none of it [&o]

 

[Guest]

Suppose you need to know what you are looking for. One that "needs a little tidying up" or one that's tidy already...

 

[Kevin Welch]

I hope if you do have to sell you can at least find room for one of those gutless, cheap S2 things in its place.

Fen
I take exception to that remark[]

 

[Hilux]

What did you see at the weekend? How did you end up looking at them - were these cars inaccurately described?

Brought to my attention locally by a mate, white, it had high mileage (described as good condition for year 1987) and was offers around 7000 with good mechanics etc (i looked at this one as I would really prefer one for track days but am scared that a cheap one is mechanically fragile)

it was , scruffy, tatty, poor paint touch ups/overspray and oily engine that clearly appeared to have been neglected, scared me off cheap ones I can tell you

Another was from a respected dealer £11,000 with full service etc etc £9000 as seen. Described as high quality it certainly shone in the sun but there were misaligned bridge spoiler with overspray, delaminated rear screen, delaminated front screen, broken water shroud under bonnet (commensurate with age sir I was told) a/c not working, scratched dash top. It went well and seemed free of rattles/issues and achieved indicated boost/temps etc etc and had provenance. I felt that mechanically it was spot on but a lot of money at 9000 considering it wasnt a turbo s

I`m still going to see a supposed minter this weekend but the seller will not contact me. I`m getting fed up with him and may leave it.

I might now go for the cheaper option and strip down/track day special it rather than fork out top dollar for cars with faults.

i think I might go for s2`s etc theres more of em and probably less thrashed than turbos?

Ho hum............ever onward[&:]

 

[Fen]

For what you want to do you will get frustrated with an S2, trust me. You'll end up throwing money at it just to get it to late Turbo spec in terms of brakes and suspension and then you won't be able to make it go much faster.

I'm guessing the dealer car you looked at was in Uxbridge? The white one sounds like a snotter and the dealer one still was below average by the sound of it.

Don't get too hung up on money being asked. I bought mine nearly 4 years ago (for £8k from Shirleys of Meriden) and I looked at another for £8k the same day in Leicester which was such a nail it was unbelieveable. Some dealers think a Porsche badge makes any tat worth money and some are realistic. A decent dealer simply wouldn't retail a bad car so don't be scared of cheap cars at respected dealers.

Similarly lots of private punters have no idea how good or bad their car is. Many have had it for a while, had some big bills and it's a lot nicer looking than H-plate Escorts and 205s they see around (and it has that badge again) therefore it must be nice and as the more expensive cars they see advertised are £10k plus they think theirs must be worth the same.

Then you get people who know the model and value their's accordingly. 6 weeks ago I sold my S2 cab for £5,750. That car was spot on and the guy who bought it "nicked" it in real terms but it had 192k on the clock and a minor dent it received while parked. Net result I priced it to sell knowing that it wouldn't get a look in at £7,500 with those miles and the paint needing done but also knowing it was almost certainly a better car than the £7,500 mile ones also on offer. By way of contrast someone on here bought one just before I sold it with 70k or so on it (doubtless for way more than I sold for) and within hundreds of miles and days the head was off because the gasket blew or it was cracked or something.

What I'm saying is that cheap doesn't always mean bad and likewise expensive doesn't always mean good with these cars. Sure some are beauties at the top end of the price range but just as many are under priced as are overpriced.