Looking to buy a mint 951 turbo s
- Thread starter Hilux
- Start date
Chris Goodman
New member
Paul
Just seen your post. I might have just the car for you.
Was probably going to be put up for sale later this year but could go now if you're serious.
1990 944 Turbo SE (i.e. latest 250bhp / 'bridge spoiler' car) in 'Panther Black' with white interior. All in excellent condition. Just back from bodyshop having had sills / rear wheel arches painted to deal with stone chips.
Non-standard bits: boost enhancer; 'Superchip' chip / remapping etc.; de-cat pipe; twin tail-pipe; braided brake hoses; fire extinguisher; immobiliser.
Recent work (last 2yrs / 10k miles): most of above plus clutch; rack; lambda sensor; dump valve; battery; head gasket; cam belts / rollers; brake disks; air-con updated to 134A; shocks.
Just had (21/02/05 at 120034miles) 24k service at major Porsche specialist - no additional work required.
Mileage today: 120677
MOT: August 2005
Price: £9,000 (this is the price - not interested in offers / negotiation I'm afraid!)
The only fault with the car that I'm aware of is that the electric height adjustment at the front of the driver's seat doesn't work. I bought it like this and have never investigated it as it means taking the seat out. Everything else works perfectly.
I have a pile of invoices dating back to 1997 and the service book is stamped from new to 120,034 miles (except a couple of oil changes - in case you don't know, the Turbo has 12k service intervals with an additional oil / filter change at 6k. Last owner assured me he did them).
You can view the car near Leamington Spa at (almost!) any time. Please let me know if you're interested as the car isn't prepared for sale and I'd like to clean it before you see it!!
Just seen your post. I might have just the car for you.
Was probably going to be put up for sale later this year but could go now if you're serious.
1990 944 Turbo SE (i.e. latest 250bhp / 'bridge spoiler' car) in 'Panther Black' with white interior. All in excellent condition. Just back from bodyshop having had sills / rear wheel arches painted to deal with stone chips.
Non-standard bits: boost enhancer; 'Superchip' chip / remapping etc.; de-cat pipe; twin tail-pipe; braided brake hoses; fire extinguisher; immobiliser.
Recent work (last 2yrs / 10k miles): most of above plus clutch; rack; lambda sensor; dump valve; battery; head gasket; cam belts / rollers; brake disks; air-con updated to 134A; shocks.
Just had (21/02/05 at 120034miles) 24k service at major Porsche specialist - no additional work required.
Mileage today: 120677
MOT: August 2005
Price: £9,000 (this is the price - not interested in offers / negotiation I'm afraid!)
The only fault with the car that I'm aware of is that the electric height adjustment at the front of the driver's seat doesn't work. I bought it like this and have never investigated it as it means taking the seat out. Everything else works perfectly.
I have a pile of invoices dating back to 1997 and the service book is stamped from new to 120,034 miles (except a couple of oil changes - in case you don't know, the Turbo has 12k service intervals with an additional oil / filter change at 6k. Last owner assured me he did them).
You can view the car near Leamington Spa at (almost!) any time. Please let me know if you're interested as the car isn't prepared for sale and I'd like to clean it before you see it!!
Hilux
New member
Hi chaps, the search goes on........................
Just one point, I`m seeing a couple of low milers soon. The provenance/MOT/service histories appear to prove the mileage correct. Is there an issue in buying a low mileage car (60,000) as it means it has spent a lot of time idle.
What do you experts think?
Regards
Paul
Just one point, I`m seeing a couple of low milers soon. The provenance/MOT/service histories appear to prove the mileage correct. Is there an issue in buying a low mileage car (60,000) as it means it has spent a lot of time idle.
What do you experts think?
Regards
Paul
Things like seals and rubbers will be the biggest problem (and can be expensive). The trouble is it might only be when you start to use it that things start to leak. It's also likely the air-con won't work and you might see things like brakes siezed and possibly stiff gearchange and sticky mechanisms on some things. Check everything electric works.
Basically I think how the car has been stored and what maintenance has been done would make or break a really low mileage example.
Something I actually read on Pistonheads relating to French cars (I think) that rings true with anything is:
Low miles with lots of owners probably means trouble, high miles with few owners probably means a good car.
Basically I think how the car has been stored and what maintenance has been done would make or break a really low mileage example.
Something I actually read on Pistonheads relating to French cars (I think) that rings true with anything is:
Low miles with lots of owners probably means trouble, high miles with few owners probably means a good car.
carlmthompson
New member
If it was my cash, in order of importance:-
Condition of the bodywork
Service History (and by this I mean the more the better - mine has ALL the bills back to new!)
You can fix the mechanicals over time - rust is terminal, and only cutting it out is the sure fire way of getting rid, and bodywork repairs are vvvvv expensive (as I'm finding out!)
I also bought on mileage - but checked to make sure the regular jobs had been done already - oil seals, belts, brakes etc. (the only thing I'm expecting (with 80k) is a clutch soon), and also checked that the previous owner had spent some cash on the car prior to sale (which he had). I can't vouch for any of the high mileage claims, but certainly believe them. I only bought low mileage, cause I don't intend to do many myself, and hope, at sometime long in the future, to get somewhere near what I paid for it, when I pass it on to the next keeper at a "lower for year" mileage.
That is if the 9k restoration doesn't harm the value [
]. The history is also why I'm taking so many photo's - I want the history to be as complete as possible - including the indescretions.
Also noted some stuff said about the Aircon - Porsche Aircon is known for being crap wether you use it or not! (am i going to get wrong for saying that now(?)) Mine has been done recently, but still not that cold (at least it's cold enough to cool on a hot day in GB - maybe not on the continent!)
Condition of the bodywork
Service History (and by this I mean the more the better - mine has ALL the bills back to new!)
You can fix the mechanicals over time - rust is terminal, and only cutting it out is the sure fire way of getting rid, and bodywork repairs are vvvvv expensive (as I'm finding out!)
I also bought on mileage - but checked to make sure the regular jobs had been done already - oil seals, belts, brakes etc. (the only thing I'm expecting (with 80k) is a clutch soon), and also checked that the previous owner had spent some cash on the car prior to sale (which he had). I can't vouch for any of the high mileage claims, but certainly believe them. I only bought low mileage, cause I don't intend to do many myself, and hope, at sometime long in the future, to get somewhere near what I paid for it, when I pass it on to the next keeper at a "lower for year" mileage.
That is if the 9k restoration doesn't harm the value [
]. The history is also why I'm taking so many photo's - I want the history to be as complete as possible - including the indescretions.Also noted some stuff said about the Aircon - Porsche Aircon is known for being crap wether you use it or not! (am i going to get wrong for saying that now(?)) Mine has been done recently, but still not that cold (at least it's cold enough to cool on a hot day in GB - maybe not on the continent!)
The problem with the 944 air-con (which was actually fine, it's the 911 of the same age that was bad because they couldn't fit all the bits of the system in them properly) is that it was designed for R12 refigerant.
Although it is more efficient R12 is now almost completely outlawed in favour of R134a on environmental grounds (R12 is freon). The new refrigerant is fine if the system is designed for it but can't be used straight in a system designed for R12. I know it's possible to have an R12 944 system converted but I believe the rate of attrition of compressors is very high after that work is done. Basically R134a needs to operate at higher pressure than R12 and also uses different oil and the oil lubricates the seals and compressor mechanics; in fact it reacts very badly with the mineral oil in R12 systems. You can see it makes sense that things go pop after the conversion. It also has smaller molecules than R12 and will permeate rubber hoses designed for R12 over time thus "leaking" away. All in all a proper conversion would need new rubber hoses and a new compressor along with removing traces of the old oil - so probably a new condenser too, and if it has been empty for any time then a receiver/drier as well.
There are some R12 replacement options (R22?) but I don't know how good they are. In any case working air con works - can't argue with that. The most likely to work is a system that still has R12 in it, and the most likely to be in that category will be systems that are used regularly as use is what keeps the seals supple and hence sealing.
You might still be able to find someone who can charge with R12 - I'm not sure if it's actually illegal yet but I don't think so. even if it is I'm sure you can still get it unofficially somehow, but you want to find a system that still has some in it and works before you can be reasonably sure even that will work.
Although it is more efficient R12 is now almost completely outlawed in favour of R134a on environmental grounds (R12 is freon). The new refrigerant is fine if the system is designed for it but can't be used straight in a system designed for R12. I know it's possible to have an R12 944 system converted but I believe the rate of attrition of compressors is very high after that work is done. Basically R134a needs to operate at higher pressure than R12 and also uses different oil and the oil lubricates the seals and compressor mechanics; in fact it reacts very badly with the mineral oil in R12 systems. You can see it makes sense that things go pop after the conversion. It also has smaller molecules than R12 and will permeate rubber hoses designed for R12 over time thus "leaking" away. All in all a proper conversion would need new rubber hoses and a new compressor along with removing traces of the old oil - so probably a new condenser too, and if it has been empty for any time then a receiver/drier as well.
There are some R12 replacement options (R22?) but I don't know how good they are. In any case working air con works - can't argue with that. The most likely to work is a system that still has R12 in it, and the most likely to be in that category will be systems that are used regularly as use is what keeps the seals supple and hence sealing.
You might still be able to find someone who can charge with R12 - I'm not sure if it's actually illegal yet but I don't think so. even if it is I'm sure you can still get it unofficially somehow, but you want to find a system that still has some in it and works before you can be reasonably sure even that will work.
TTM
Well-known member
Re air con, we froggies are lucky enough to have a fellow 944 enthusiast who works as an air con technician and knows pretty well how the various 944 air con set ups work. There seems to be two types of 944/968 air con set ups : one for "northern" countries (Germany, UK, Scandinavia) et and one for others which works, according to him, better. I could not remember why, though [8|]
He diagnosed mine with leaks coming from both the upper and lower plugs, so he just replaced them with new ones and refilled the system with some R12 he had kept at the back of his garage "just in case" []
He has performed many R12 -> R134a conversion on 944/968 : some pictures here.
As far as I can remember the conversion requires a different compressor and a different "bottle" (the tank near the front left pop up in which bubbles can be seen when the air con works properly).
He diagnosed mine with leaks coming from both the upper and lower plugs, so he just replaced them with new ones and refilled the system with some R12 he had kept at the back of his garage "just in case" [
]He has performed many R12 -> R134a conversion on 944/968 : some pictures here.
As far as I can remember the conversion requires a different compressor and a different "bottle" (the tank near the front left pop up in which bubbles can be seen when the air con works properly).
Diver944
Active member
Mine has the R12 compatible gas from www.airconone.co.uk and it works perfectly. He last serviced the system under vacuum and replaced the gas in April 2003 for £60 and its still fine. I'll be having it recharged next month
A lot of places will happily charge £100s to convert to R134, but the R12 substitute is perfectly useable and legal
Hilux
New member
Hi chaps
Still looking.......................
Seen some interesting ones over the last couple of weeks and I`m still gauging one or two against the opposition.
I`m seeing a white one on Thursday, now all you white 944 owners out there please do not take offence BUT I personally dont really like white on a car and wonder if people pay a premium for non white 944`s ie should I be paying less (get less when I resell)
Its a proper turbo (silver rose spec) S with all history etc etc so the provenance sounds good and the owner assures me that its clean, uncrashed etc so I`m interested.
What do you think?
Regards
Paul
Still looking.......................
Seen some interesting ones over the last couple of weeks and I`m still gauging one or two against the opposition.
I`m seeing a white one on Thursday, now all you white 944 owners out there please do not take offence BUT I personally dont really like white on a car and wonder if people pay a premium for non white 944`s ie should I be paying less (get less when I resell)
Its a proper turbo (silver rose spec) S with all history etc etc so the provenance sounds good and the owner assures me that its clean, uncrashed etc so I`m interested.
What do you think?
Regards
Paul
I don't know if white is worth any less but as with any colour some people wouldn't buy a white one. I suspect that with white that number is higher than with the other common colours.
Personally I wouldn't choose white but I think the cars suit white so I might buy another white one if everything else was right. I also personally wouldn't choose red nor brown (I have seen one) nor gold, some people wouldn't buy black, some wouldn't have blue. At the end of the day every car on the road was chosen in the colour it is by someone. White isn't very fashionable just now but my prediction is that in 5 years there will be a backlash against silver and white will be on the up again.
Personally I wouldn't choose white but I think the cars suit white so I might buy another white one if everything else was right. I also personally wouldn't choose red nor brown (I have seen one) nor gold, some people wouldn't buy black, some wouldn't have blue. At the end of the day every car on the road was chosen in the colour it is by someone. White isn't very fashionable just now but my prediction is that in 5 years there will be a backlash against silver and white will be on the up again.
Hilux
New member
White is ok its just that it makes the car look bland IMO.
I think (personally that thats the colour that sets the car off best)
True but both the black and the leather are hard to keep clean IMO
Dont all say `sacrilege` but are there aftermarket decals, trim enhancements available? Do people keep them mainly standard or are there some tasteful enhancements that are acceptable. I prefer the rear bridge spoiler, can the flat rubber spoiler be swapped easily for the bridge spoiler so that the original can be replaced at any time?
Are you selling?
What is it then whats the spec/condition/price?
Cheers
Paul
I think (personally that thats the colour that sets the car off best)
True but both the black and the leather are hard to keep clean IMO
Dont all say `sacrilege` but are there aftermarket decals, trim enhancements available? Do people keep them mainly standard or are there some tasteful enhancements that are acceptable. I prefer the rear bridge spoiler, can the flat rubber spoiler be swapped easily for the bridge spoiler so that the original can be replaced at any time?
Are you selling?
What is it then whats the spec/condition/price?
Cheers
Paul
Guest
New member
Yes, spec - everything
cond. - Top
price - lots
The basic spec is
1990 Porsche 944 turbo bridge spoiler model
Panther Black
Linen Leather Sports Seats
89k miles
FSH
Full service done 9k miles ago, belts/waterpump/gear selector etc.
LSD
10 speaker upgrade pack
M030 Koni all round (rears have 80 miles on them)
968 M030 ARB kit (80 miles)
Refurbished wheels (3 weeks ago) with "turbo" centre caps
Janspeed stainless steel exhaust 6x4 oval tail pipe
Janspeed de-CAT pipe (still have origional CAT)
Guru v9 chipset
Tial stainless steel 38mm wastegate
All brakes refurbished over last month, new plates nipples etc.
EBC Redstuff Ceramic pads all round (still not bedded in)
New stainless steel brake hoses all round
ATE super blue brake fluid
New battery
New gear lever leather
Forge Motorsport Dump Valve
4 new Toyo T1-R tyres (80 miles)
New rear wheel bearings
4 wheel alighnment
Car has been extensively looked after over the past 8 years
The car currenty has 330bhp and 350lbft.
POA
I seriously do not want to sell but will be having a new addition to the family in September at which point will no longer have time or money to do the car justice. I have just insured the car for another year and will be taxing it on Friday. The car has a guaranteed insured value of £14k on my classic policy.
I can send photos and discuss further if you want to supply an e-mail address.
Swapping a rubber spoiler for a bridge one is easy, but you need to swap the whole hatch as the glass is drilled differently. Most people keep their mods to Porsche parts so things like Cup wheels, 968 mirrors and door handles, Turbo graphic on the front wing etc.
Linen leather is not that difficult to keep clean if you condition it properly and take a bit of care what you do with it. You need floor mats for the cream carpet of course (and a boot mat is a very good idea too) but if you get them in blue or black (to match the dash top) then it looks good. Black does show dirt and spots of water if you don't chamois most people agree it but it looks really good when it's cleaned properly.
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