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Lowered 944s and shattered ball joints

John .............." excuse the forthright post"

BUT

Get yourself some KW + stop messing + dithering about..

Forget DTweeks theyl only rip you off,,Get in touch with Stu at K300. Hell defo do you a good deal + he knows our cars ,, as hes got it fitted to his 968....He can also do you a good deal on the poly bushes for your wishbones + arb,s.....+ the stuff will probably be with you a lot sooner than Dtweeks.....

Personally i wouldnt have anything else on my car.[ unless i won the lottery then ide fit some Motons or similar.].. ive had 18 months of good hard track days from it so far + its performed faultlessly....[:D][:D][:D]

If you got the Konis , youde only wished "later on " that youdve fitted the KW,s.....Youl save money in the long run....

But then again,,, Its your choice....I would hate to say "we" told you so.....[;)][;)][;)]
 
Hmmmmmm, Tony, Peter and Dave M have Leda and all of them have said they'd go for KW if they had their time again (admittedly Dave went M030, but I think that was a cost thing). Lots and lots of people have KW and to my knowledge every single one of them is delighted with it.

I am absolutely over the moon with mine. Picked it up from Promax on Friday, drove back in wet and dry but I am aware that with the KW V3 and the Weltmeister ARB`s there is probably less progressive breakaway so I took it steady.

Went out early this morning and gave it some stick on albeit familiar bends and roundabouts. Initial impressions are that with the current settings erring on the harder side it was more `jiggly` than my old Mo30 but driving it more the car was jiggly but the suspension was compliant IYKWIM. With the Mo30 the ride was quite firm but the wheels would crash and bump slightly on poor roads, nothing unsettling but the KW does seem to rebound better.

On smooth roads at v high speed *cough* (briefly) the suspension appears a bit hard as the car didnt settle as well as with the Mo30 with gentle bumps far more noticeable and the aerodynamics that gradually press it down like a giant hand being overcome. i`ll have to think about that one and see if softer settings help.

Regarding general running around it is superb. The lowering, toe and 1.5 degree camber means it doesnt self centre as it did so you have to plant it more in a straight line but it now corners so flat its fantastic. There is a slight progressive oversteer as it turns in (adjusting the W/meister ARB settings should dial this out) but unlike the Mo30 the car doesnt dip half as much and load the front outside wheel, it really is a `go-kart` feel.

The other fantastic aspect is that you can feed the power in as it oversteers, it then becomes more balanced but the best bit is that you can actually feel the rear wheels gripping/slipping and driving the car out of the turn. I`m convinced that as the car is more evenly balanced you can feed more power mid corner than before but that its now tyre limits and not progressive breakaway that I need to be mindful of.

Braking hard on a bend/roundabout approach is more settled too with less nose dive. Promax set the car up 10mm down at the front as this biases the weight slightly forward so I thought it might be more pronounced but its not. The car pulls up to a dead stop relatively level and a quick launch again appears to be without a great weight transfer.

I nearly forgot to mention the refurbished brakes (callipers rebuilt as required/Sebro perf discs/ATE blue fluid/braided hoses/Performance friction pads) Absolutely transformed from what I thought were good brakes. Awesome, superb. Having built/upgraded/driven a VX Westy and V8 G27 I was used to proper brakes. I thought the 951 brakes were good but assumed that the car was heavier and it was fast road equipped. Not any more. What can I say other than they are second only to my Westy with retardation. Now I find I brake too early as combined with the suspension it pulls up so quick with no sense of nose dive or drama, it just stops.

To all who hesitate go and try the Performance friction pads, you can hear the rotors and pads disappearing but it is worth it for the feeling of security.

The downside [&:] I had a chip in my windscreen for ages. Since I`ve had the new setup its now gradually cracking at about 12mm/30 miles [:mad:] so the car is certainly seeing the difference in a harder set up, theres also a few creaks and groans from the back that are `flex` related. Front and rear strut braces are on my shopping list.

Also there is a slight groaning/moaning as you accelerate out of a r/h bend coming from the rear n/s. Its nothing rubbing that I can see but I`ll get Roger/Andy to check it out asap.

Sorry to enthuse so much. I`m sure there are better setups out there (and quicker drivers) but I am v v pleased.
 
Paul
Sounds like your a happy bunny with your "new" car now...

Just a small pointer
Try the Kw on FULL soft . Im sure youl find it better for fast road driving. I found my car skipped around somewhat , when pushing on...[when it was set to its track settings.]..
When you get to the track wind it up + itl be AWSOME....

Oh

You mention that Promax set the car at 10mm lower at the front... Is that 10mm difference from front to back.?? ie front lower than the rear.????
If so thats a strange setting...
I find my car is best when the rear is aprox 10mm lower than the front....[;)][;)][;)]

Sounds like ANOTHER happy KW customer....[:D][:D][;)][;)]
 
Hi Dave

Doesnt skip at all but I agree that it needs to be soft on smooth roads at high speed. I think I`ll try softer settings bit by bit.

Its set 10mm down at the front. Normal is cill line level apparently. They recommend it from experience on track and reckon it settles the car. I cannot comment as to whats best but I feel I have to bow to their vast experience with track setups. The steering seems slightly heavier at centre with better wheel feedback.

It was slightly lowered anyway but the difference is/seems to be most apparent for some reason at the front. The back is lower but consequently the tyres now seem set back more in the arch. It has a noticeable (to me) slightly foward stance which I like.

I`m definitely a happy bunny.

When you get to the track wind it up + itl be AWSOME....

It`ll certainly be interesting going to full hard settings with my humungeous ARB`s, the compliance will be less but it`ll be interesting to see if I can dial out the slight oversteer (or be a proper track queen and master it with tons of throttle [8D])

PS: are cracked windscreens an issue at track days cos at 12mm/30 miles it`ll be in half at the end of the day??[&:]
 
Great news Paul, and a wonderful review from the road aspect. I've heard many great things re the KW on track but I've not heard too much about its road manners. If you do come along to Bedford on Saturday I must bagsy a passenger ride asap as I am certain I will be another KW convert at some point in the future [:)]
 
Paul you can try it yourself (if allowed [;)]) once I stop it overboosting [:mad:] and I must also wear some waterproof underpants and bag a ride in your flying machine. I assume its all piggy backed and 18/20 psi boosting??

Went to book on line but no ref to the Porsche 944 lot re discount. Do I ring up then?

Ps: Any experience of scrutineering and cracked windscreens at track days??
 
Wow, Hilux I'm really, really looking forward to getting mine fitted now and looking forward to seeing yours at Bedford. By the way does your insurance cover your windscreen replacement? If so why not get the windscreen replaced anyway. Bear in mind that the Silver Rose windscreen is thinner and lighter than the stock turbo windscreen so make sure you get the proper one fitted when you do get round to it.

How have you got your ARB's set up? Are they on the least stiff setting? I'm wondering how much of the flat cornering you are seeing now is due to the KW and how much is due to the upgraded ARB's? I ask because i've elected not to upgrade my ARB's at this time - partly due to cost and partly because I believe that in stock setup the stock ARB's are not working properly due to the crappy bushes and drop links. I will be upgrading my bushes and have fitted the KLA drop link stiffening brackets and hope that this will get the maximum out of my standard ARB's and it will be as stiff as I want it to be. I know they'll never be as stiff as the Weltmiesters, but i'm hoping they'll be stiff enough for my needs.
 
My indie says the 944 should be set up slightly nose-down also, and he'll be saying that from dealer training so it will be Porsche specs.

My Welts are set at half way on either end and I was so happy with the car I didn't bother to play with them.

Lastly I did 2 trackdays with a cracked screen and nobody mentioned it.
 
ORIGINAL: sawood12

Bear in mind that the Silver Rose windscreen is thinner and lighter than the stock turbo windscreen

Oooh, I didn't know that, and I want to fit a new screen soon. Thats made my day [:D]
I don't suppose the door windows were lighter too?

With regards to Leda I'd like to say that at the moment the only reason I'd consider KW over them is the fact they wont rust, but saying that the corrosion on mine after a few years of all year round use doesn't seem much to worry about (unless you enjoy polishing the hidden bits).

I'd also like to add that Leda seem such a great firm to deal with. I've had mine returned to them this week and they're revalving them to my chosen spec and supplying stiffer springs all at a very reasonable price and with rapid turn around. In fact if I had 4 wheels on the car I could have driven over there and they would have offered the service of doing it during the course of a day.

Off to see my car for the first time in 2 weeks tommorrow. Stupid how much I've missed it [:)](although using the [:mad:] bus for the commute everyday doesn't help in that respect).
 
Since there are so many of you with different suspension setups, I am hoping if someone can give me an opinion.
At current my '87 turbo has stock shocks (boge/sachs), how much better does the car handle with the konis? Is it a worthwhile, or is there not much difference, as some of you are recommending going straight to kw suspension.
I have never been in an m030 car so have no comparison.
This is mainly for the road, I may do a track day or two in the future, but not enough for the extra £1k it would cost for kw. Its more of a case of is the konis worth the £350, or should I just stay stock.
 
ORIGINAL: Big Dave UK

John .............." excuse the forthright post"

BUT

Get yourself some KW + stop messing + dithering about..

John, Be the Leader............ Get Ledas the shock with a pedigree on 944's and more modern day development than any other manufacturer in conjunction with Racers Edge!!!
Lets hear the flames guys...........!!!!!

 
Ross
The way i see it , is,, the Koni,s are "old" technology...
The KW,s are "new" technology...
Aparently its all to do with the valving....

Ive had M030 on my 968.. Its not a patch on the Kw,s , either on road OR track...
The Koni [M030] seemed to be harsh + crashy on the road + too soft for the track..
Whereas the KW has the best of both worlds...+ Is FAR superior at both...
Like i said , its ALL to do with the internal valves....

But im sure there will be somebody along soon to dissagree with me....[8|][8|][8|]
 
Thanks for the comments Dave,
i am sur the KW is good, but at £1k more than konis would cost, I would expect it to be good.

What I am more interested in, as you had an m030 car, is how much better was those shocks compared to standard.
 
Such choices.

Just to cheer me up I am posting a picture of my latest shiney bits...which is where this all started.

bjkit.jpg


Tom is having speaks with Leda for me to see if a more commercial deal can be struck and I will have further speaks with Porscheshop regarding the cut and shut inserts. Not my ideal route but £1000 cheaper than KWs.

At this stage I seem to be spending money and not getting to enjoy the car on the track. I want to redress the balance a bit. After all, what is the point in having the best brakes, and the best suspension, and never getting to use the car in anger? I am very sure that KWs would enthuse me with their delicate handling as I dive through Paddock....but if I never manage to get the car there what's the ******* point.

When you consider the sort of money you can spend (I have spent) I really start to wonder if I wouldn't get more satisfaction from a bargain basement track slag Lux.
 
Wow, Hilux I'm really, really looking forward to getting mine fitted now and looking forward to seeing yours at Bedford. By the way does your insurance cover your windscreen replacement? If so why not get the windscreen replaced anyway. Bear in mind that the Silver Rose windscreen is thinner and lighter than the stock turbo windscreen so make sure you get the proper one fitted when you do get round to it.

How have you got your ARB's set up? Are they on the least stiff setting? I'm wondering how much of the flat cornering you are seeing now is due to the KW and how much is due to the upgraded ARB's? I ask because i've elected not to upgrade my ARB's at this time - partly due to cost and partly because I believe that in stock setup the stock ARB's are not working properly due to the crappy bushes and drop links. I will be upgrading my bushes and have fitted the KLA drop link stiffening brackets and hope that this will get the maximum out of my standard ARB's and it will be as stiff as I want it to be. I know they'll never be as stiff as the Weltmiesters, but i'm hoping they'll be stiff enough for my needs.

Hi Scott

ARB`s and KW settings are a secret known only to Promax [&:] [;)][;)]

I havent spec`d settings leaving it to Roger to set up. He recommended semi hard but I asked for slightly firmer so I suggest they are at 60% hard. The Arb`s are set to suit and as previously posted I can only sense slight oversteer bias to date. I am to take them back in a week or two`s time when its got some mileage and `settled` in where Promax will have their new premises up and running (between MK and Buckingham apparently) with state of the art geometry equipment so I hope to spend an educational time there as they rejig as required. Why dont you come along and try the car for yourself? We`ll both learn something I`m sure.

The flatter cornering is (I`m sure) down to the ARB`s, without them the KW (certainly on full hard) would lift wheels in my opinion and flex the chassis more (hence my need for strut braces) I also have no sun roof so the car is supposedly stiffer too [:eek:][:eek:]

Note that I got the odd stomach/thigh cramp from bracing myself while cornering even though I have the sports seats [;)] just like after a short track day. ( I must have driven about 80+miles) Harnesses are now a must and extra lower seat bolsters to stop the legs flailing around.

The Koni [M030] seemed to be harsh + crashy on the road + too soft for the track..

Agreed that Mo30 is too soft for track but the main difference on road is the KW rebound is miles better and stops the tyres `pattering` I now consider that the rebound is so well damped that you need softer road settings without compromising grip.

Tom is having speaks with Leda for me to see if a more commercial deal can be struck and I will have further speaks with Porscheshop regarding the cut and shut inserts. Not my ideal route but £1000 cheaper than KWs.

At this stage I seem to be spending money and not getting to enjoy the car on the track. I want to redress the balance a bit. After all, what is the point in having the best brakes, and the best suspension, and never getting to use the car in anger? I am very sure that KWs would enthuse me with their delicate handling as I dive through Paddock....but if I never manage to get the car there what's the ******* point.

When you consider the sort of money you can spend (I have spent) I really start to wonder if I wouldn't get more satisfaction from a bargain basement track slag Lux.

I agree entirely with the last paragraph John

I bought mine at a bargain price with a mind to strip it out and track it exclusively but upon inspection at home it was too nice to do that (although I still might) I wasnt after a Lux or S2 as I like the potential of the turbo for silly power and lazier driving style BUT I feel that I would have got more out of a Lux or S2 as they are vastly less complicated. Ironically S2 engines etc I understand, but the turbo set up is a big learning curve for me with many variables.

Last year was a wash out what with deaths in the family and a big house extension. Rolling my Ginetta has lost me a lot of confidence so I`m sure you`ll all give me run for my money even with the current set up.

The best brakes and suspension are not needed for track exclusively, simply the pleasure that you get driving briskly on the road with a bigger safety margin. Track days hone your skills and (I believe) improve your safety factor on the road as you know what the car can do particularly at the limit.

Me? Harnesses, a 1/2 roll cage and slightly more power to negate the passenger effect and its done. Then reliable running is key with the odd lesson from an instructor..................

Who am I kidding, cars always cost money. theres always a shiny bit to buy but superb brakes and really good suspension are worth another 50+ bhp on track IMO
 
Well! Stu did give me a good price for KW's and provided further in put with regard to Leda. However, the post Christmas Credit Card Bill hit the mat this morning [:eek:] so Stu is providing me with Koni front inserts. In honesty, they are so cheap that if I swap them for KW's next year they won't owe me anything.

I also have Polybushes coming for the wishbones and front ARB to body mount.

Beaky is going to see Gerald on Tuesday so, subject to when everything arrives, he might be back with me to wave at anyone left doing the Bedford track day.
 
ORIGINAL: ross255

At current my '87 turbo has stock shocks (boge/sachs), how much better does the car handle with the konis?

My S2 has a new set of Boge/Sachs and my Turbo has a freshly rebuilt set of M030. Both of them totally transformed each car in comparison with their worn out predecessors. The M030 is slightly firmer than Boge when on full soft and much firmer when set to hard. The M030 damps out the bumps much much gentler than the worn out Boge did so I think if you went M030 you would be pleasantly surprised in compariosn with your old Boge

I have driven a full coilover Leda equipped car and when set to soft it was just the same as the M030 when soft, but when set to full hard it was completely boneshaking on the roads but would corner very flatly with hardly any dip and dive under brakes or acceleration. The adjustability was very good and very easy to do.

I have been in a KW V3 car and it is a totally different class of suspension IMHO. It was set to very hard and once again made the car handle like the Leda, very flat and very hard. BUT, even on hard it has the ability to soak up bumps that it really should not be able to. This is the bypass valve making itself felt and is a fantastic idea [:)]

If you have a predominantly road based car with one or two track days a year then fresh M030 is the way to go and is the budget option if you find old shocks for circa £200 and spend £200 having them rebuilt. If you have an out and out track car and are on a slightly limited budget then it has to be Ledas. If you want true multi purpose (but also better in all conditions) and have a higher budget then it has to be KW's
 
ORIGINAL: Diver944

......If you have an out and out track car and are on a slightly limited budget then it has to be Ledas. If you want true multi purpose (but also better in all conditions) and have a higher budget then it has to be KW's

While I would like to suggest otherwise, in my recent experience, I have to say there isn't any cost saving on Ledas over KWs. Ledas most basic package was £200 cheaper than KWs from Stuart but that was for a non coil over rear dampers and oil. Once you start building in the options - rear coil overs and emulsified oil - I'm afraid Ledas are more expensive.

Leda, who are in the UK, seem very reliant on their US distributer, Racers Edge, for their 944 knowledge. This is great if you are in America but doesn't seem to cut it over here.

Admittedly, Stuart did give me an very inviting price on KW's and then on my Koni inserts so has to go on the list of favoured suppliers in my book.
 
By the way does your insurance cover your windscreen replacement? If so why not get the windscreen replaced anyway. Bear in mind that the Silver Rose windscreen is thinner and lighter than the stock turbo windscreen so make sure you get the proper one fitted when you do get round to it.

I am covered but cant be arsed to have it done by a roadside warrior in a hurry so want to wait so I`ll be there. The big irony is that my car is Silver Rose spec`d but I dont think it is a Silver Rose. Its a 1987 body registered in late 1988 so `could be an early version or experimental one as it went to America in RHD spec?? Can you fit a lighter S/Rose screen to a non S/Rose car??
 
I don't suppose the door windows were lighter too?

Polycarbonate and a hot air gun. Use the original as a template/fit glass guide to the top leading edge in a few places so it is guided into the channels when closed. Thats what I was going to do before I decided it was too good to chop about [&:]

Or silicone them in place [:D]
 

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