M3 - Decisions, decisions.........

Julio Geordio · Apr 12, 2007

Had a phone call from my BMW dealer today following up on the official news that the new M3 will be launched in the autumn. I then checked the BMW website, and for the first time, there is official news.

http://www.bmw.co.uk/bmwuk/about/news/0,,___,00.html

As I put down a reservation fee almost 2 yrs ago, I'm near the top of the list at this particular dealer, and he has invited me to visit in about 2 weeks time to go through specs and option prices (he only had the basic price today).

The dilemma starts here. The product seems to have been taken to an altogether higher level than before. Rather than just sticking a great engine in a modified 3 series, it seems that they've actually developed a new car from the ground up that shares very little with a standard 3 series. Performance looks good, the engine is bound to be fabulous and I like the looks too. There are 2 interesting points to note:

1) They haven't quoted a Nordschleife time, but the fact that it is mentioned at all means that it is going to be good I think, and therefore indicate that it will have all the ingredients and characteristics of a proper sports car.
2) The dealer said that the basic price is just a touch over £50k. So with a few extras it going to be £55k. That is a huge leap over the outgoing model.

This says to me that BMW are confident that they have a real winner on their hands. And quite frankly I like the sound of it all.

However, whenever I get in my 997S, I love it. When I see a reflection of it in a shop window, it looks special. When I floor it, or pull through a bend, it feels special. It is (just about!) rare enough that people react to it (most positively, of course!), and I enjoy talking about it. The £55k cost is approx what my 997 is worth so I won't be any better off financially (perhaps worse depending on depreciation, although with being a new model with a long, long waiting list, it should hold fairly firm).

So do I stick with what I've got or trade in? I'm tempted, I have to say. And if I don't like it, I can always order a facelift 997 I suppose!

snarf · Apr 12, 2007

Biased answer of course but I can't begin to understand why would anyone even consider swapping a 997 for a M3.

Allan

sawood12 · Apr 12, 2007

I'd wait until the dealers claims are actually proved before trading in your car just as you've taken the biggest depreciation hit. It wouldn't be the first time dealers have made false promises. Remember the AMV8 Vantage? Now there was a car full of promise but failed on every count (was supposed to be the same price and faster, ended up being slower and much more expensive). As many other car manufacturs have found out the hard way - BMW included - building a Porsche beating car is alot more difficult than it sounds. I'd take the dealer for a ride for a change, take the car on several extended test drives and see for yourself if the car lives upto the claims.

OK1904 · Apr 12, 2007

Julio, I think it all depends on why you bought the 997. I can see it was your first Porsche (as my 997S is for me) and you could have bought almost any other car instead. You could have had the M3 of the day or an RS4 etc but you chose the 997. The M3 is a fancy 3 series, the RS is a fancy Audi, the ST is a fancy Mondeo or Focus, but the 997 is a 997! You have an icon which will never disappoint and I think you would regret buying a car that could be confused with a 320D + special alloys. I wouldn't do it but thanks for throwing the idea at us!

garyw · Apr 13, 2007

BMW seem to have issues with their costings at the moment, the launch of the Last ///M was the Z4M, priced way over the top... leaving alot of owners with big residual hits, and lots available as "demo" cars, the M3CSL was a similar story...
I also read the S54 engine is to be finished within the next year, thus leaving the Z4M out to dry in its current format [

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I'm not saying the new car won't be great, in fact I'm sure it will, but as previously said its never going to be the 911. [

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garyw

Sunil · Apr 13, 2007

If you can, I would suggest keeping the 997 and buying the M3 as well. Try them back to back over a couple of weeks, keep the car you prefer and sell the other. If you decide to sell the M3, it will probably go for at least list and, if you sell the 997, you're going to get what you would have got for it a couple of weeks before.

I don't think it will live up to a 997 but sometimes it's good to have a change and especially so if you're planning to get a facelifted 997. You'll probably appreciate the 997 more after having had the M3 but hey, who knows, BMW might get it right this time round.

Chris5150 · Apr 13, 2007

Sorry but i just dont see the M3 as attractive at all now 'proper' pics are out as opposed to the jazzed up ones from the auto show. See
http://www.bm3w.co.uk/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=524606&page=0&fpart=1&vc=1&nt=2

Looks awful, and why do BMW pick such a flat red?...needs to be brighter. Interior is as dull as ditch water also. Yes Im sure it will be a class leader, but it will not have the feel of your 997S at all, guarantee it. No way on this earth would I swap a 997S for a new M3. I made the mistake of selling my 996TT X50 and getting an M6 while back, 2 months later I was back in a 997 C4S X51...Once you have had Porsche's nothing else feels the same again!
Why not spec your M3 and when it arrives decide what to do then, I dare say you will be able to move it on for a premium anyway if its going to be one of the first

Jamie Garside · Apr 13, 2007

Wrong place to be asking this question. 997S every time!

Most of my clients start out life in a M3 and move into a 911 - evolution.

lowndes · Apr 13, 2007

I've had M3s in the past and like the OP I have had a deposit on the V8 car for the last 2 years. No idea whether this places me near the top of the dealers list, he certainly hasn't called!. However, in the interim I have been running an RS4 in the M3 role. It is a seriously good car but IMO not really comparable to the 997.
If I need to take passengers, luggage etc I'd take the Audi and would enjoy the drive, the handling and that addictive V8 growl. But if I'm out on my own its the TT every time for the sheer pleasure and dynamic excellence. I wouldn't use either for the track but that's another matter and another solution.
So as a previous poster has said there is a case for having both an M3/RS4 and 997. However, if space, family or other factors militate a compromise one way or the other then either will provide plenty of enjoyable motoring.

philippe · Apr 13, 2007

I think the M3 will be a great car, however i think it is a lot of money, and after 6 months of ownership you will regret going from a 911 to an M3, the prove is your car second hand will be worth the same as a new M3 this shows the diffrence in the two cars.

Phil

Guest · Apr 13, 2007

I also have a holding deposit on. I wasnt really impressed with the red car shots but when the mini configerator was launched I put in Black with the 19s and white with the 19s and it looked very nice. The problem is it doesnt look special, as someone else said just a beefed up m3. I dont really want to make a final decision as if its a belter I will feel gutted I passed on it. Realistically I reckon there will be a window of around a year where it will seem special. Now a limited run csl would be different. The old csl values seem to be firming up, even with the arrival of the new m3, now that is a car I would like to try.

david_yorkshire · Apr 13, 2007

if you want to loose shed loads of money, buy the BMW.
BMW have stuffed themselves recently on pricing, as Gary said - they are now offering 24-26% discounts to fleet purchsers & hire companies.
Just think how this will affect your residual value in 1, 2 or 3 years....
Don't get me wrong, they produce some good machinery, but it is now major mass market, and re-sale prices reflect that.
David
(997S and BMW owner !)

Guest · Apr 13, 2007

Don't do it. Marketing hype - ground up car, this time it's really special, we're really confident, you're first in the queue, etc. The most money I've lost on a car was on an M3 CSL, when I bought into the BMW marketing hype.

Cannot see BMW ever making a better car than the CSL. Everyone still lost packets of cash on depreciation. Then BMW bring out a 'cheap' CS version to wind-up CSL buyers even more.

sawood12 · Apr 13, 2007

Forgive me for being sceptical but I fail to see the point in BMW going to the huge expense and risk of building a brand new car from the ground up and stick a 3 series shell on it when a sooped up current 3-series will sell just as well - probably better as it would be cheaper because they wouldn't have to recouperate all those development costs. I think BMW's definition of a "New car from the ground up" is likely to be very different from yours. I think it will most likely have revised suspension, a new engine and a siffened shell, some CF body panels and ceramic brakes and thats it. I'm sure it will be a very very good car indeed, as all M cars are but it will be no 911, and i'll be willing to bet it wont be as good - again.

okellyt · Apr 13, 2007

I started on BMW's then moved to Porsche -says it all

get an M3 as your company car, don't spend your own money on it.

Keep the 997

Or if you can afford a n M3 as well get a well specced Turbo instead!

Julio Geordio · Apr 14, 2007

Thanks Gents, this is what I was hoping for, some stimulation to keep me thinking. Apart from the variables I tabled above, some of the good stuff that you have mentioned includes:

For M3:
- a change (I do tend to get bored of cars fairly quickly - the 997S is the exception!)
- should be able to sell the Beemer with little, if any, depreciation for a short window, probably a few months
- practicality - all relative, and in some respects the 997 is relatively good, but the M3 will be relatively better
- I do actually like the looks!

Against M3:
- my current car is an icon - a word a I use a lot when talking about the 911
- price - the M3 is still a huge jump from the last coupe at c.£40k, and even higher than the speculative price of c.£46k bandied about only a few weeks ago

I think I'm going to wait and see what the "first drive" press reports are like. If they're good, I'll go for it and I expect quite quickly I'll decide whether to keep it or have a couple of months fun and then order a facelift 997. Sadly, I can't afford both! That's it, decision made. Thanks everyone for your help.

AlexG · Apr 14, 2007

I have never owned an M3 or a water cooled Porsche so can't really comment on much, apart from the fact that when I have seen an M3 it has never stirred the soul in quite the same way as a 911, from the pictures (which probably don't do the M3 justice) I don't think this latest model is going to change things...

mickshep · Apr 14, 2007

Would agree with you Alex, I had a deposit down for an M3 as it was clearly a choice between that and the 997S when moving up from my boxster. Found the 997S I was looking for about two months ago, cancelled deposit on M3 (still haven't got the money back - another story) and not looked back since.
I love cars but hey I'm no expert so I'm sure a go in the M3 would leave me well impressed irrespective of detailed comparison of the two that will no doubt follow.
The one thing I think I can add to the discussion after two months in the 997S which was touched upon higher in the thread is the mass appeal of the 911 that makes it that little bit more special. All the looks, nudges etc people give when they see the car, the overwhelming positive feedback I've had from mates who've seen/been in the car - altogether on a different level from anything else I've owned.
I think a 911 is the dream car of a lot more people than the M3 will ever be and that must count for something.
As far as the dreaded depreciation goes interesting to see BMW offering some very large "dealer contributions"(AKA discounts) on finance for the Z4M - you don't see much of that at your local OPC do you !!
Right off to get my £1,000 back.

Dylan1 · Apr 14, 2007

i enjoyed the m3 after the 330 ci and 996c4 but kept remebering the sheer quality of the porsche-far superior all round so now have a new cayman s.i have a bmw sport tourer which is great for doing that sort of thing ...but the porsche is the only one for the fun stuff WITH quality,and thats what counted for me in the end.have fun and hope the m3 doesnt do what all my bmws have done and that is to take a big depreciation hit right from the start..

Adam2S · Apr 14, 2007

I have deposits down with two different dealers for E90 M3's but switched camps in Feb this year and ordered a 997S. I switched because the new E90 coupe does little for me in the looks department and the 997 was the first car I had driven that made the M3 seem both slow and badly built.

I havnt cancelled the M3 orders as yet (just in case), but having seen all the recent press shots I think the new M3 has done very little to address my fears over the looks. I just dont like it at all and Im buggered if Im going to part with £55k for something that I dont like the look of, its as simple as that.

So far no regrets at all for jumping ships 2 months ago. I would recommend you stay with the 997S as I think you will feel that the M3 is a step backwards