M3 - Decisions, decisions.........

[okellyt]

ORIGINAL: Julio Geordio

Thanks Gents, this is what I was hoping for, some stimulation to keep me thinking. Apart from the variables I tabled above, some of the good stuff that you have mentioned includes:

For M3:
- a change (I do tend to get bored of cars fairly quickly - the 997S is the exception!)
- should be able to sell the Beemer with little, if any, depreciation for a short window, probably a few months
- practicality - all relative, and in some respects the 997 is relatively good, but the M3 will be relatively better
- I do actually like the looks!

Against M3:
- my current car is an icon - a word a I use a lot when talking about the 911
- price - the M3 is still a huge jump from the last coupe at c.£40k, and even higher than the speculative price of c.£46k bandied about only a few weeks ago

I think I'm going to wait and see what the "first drive" press reports are like. If they're good, I'll go for it and I expect quite quickly I'll decide whether to keep it or have a couple of months fun and then order a facelift 997. Sadly, I can't afford both! That's it, decision made. Thanks everyone for your help.

You missed s cruicial one on the againsts; Feedback and Steering Feel, despite all the guff in the press the 911 has it in spades all the M3's I've drive have not.

Not that the M3 is a bad car or is doesn't have accurate steering but its just one of the features that set a 911 apart from othr cars.

 

[Guest]

I've owned 5 M3's E36's and E46's. BMW Motorsport cars are special cars, no question. Just not in the same league as a Porsche 911.

M5's commanded a premium for a while when they first came out. If you fancy riding that early crest and selling before prices dip, would make perfect sense. Just make sure you get out before the wave drops and depreciation starts running at £750 to £1k per month !

Ask a current M5 or M6 owner about depreciation on a 6 to 18 month old car.

What about after the M3 ? Back to a 911 ?

I just got fed up of going back to the start-point of the depreciation curve.

 

[yan]

Agreed - the M badge is a very different car to any other BMWs. Beware not all dealerships have solid experience of working on the M model - I've heard stories of mechanics learning their trade on your M engine...

re. the 911: I used to have an E46 M3 but from the first test drive in a 911 (996) have not looked back. The driving experience is the upgrade, to note but a few: steering, brakes, rear-engine drive, seating position all make for a superb GT experience. Despite the looks of the 997 being pretty similar to the 996 the driving upgrade was surprising to say the least: I'd be interested to see how evolutionarily comparable the BMW ground-up development is.

The one snag I have with Porsche versus BMW is reliability, albeit it minor (sorry it ain't perfect). I never had to visit a dealership in 2 years of owning the E46, same with previous BMW models. I have had a number of snags on 996 and also 997 (after 3 wks) ranging from things that don't work the way they are supposed to, to radiator leaks and fixing snags at times appears a black art. That said though all has been fixed under warranty, it's just I'd rather not have the problem at all.

Get both, otherwise good luck with your dilemma.

 

[Guest]

ORIGINAL: Jamie Garside

Wrong place to be asking this question. 997S every time!

Most of my clients start out life in a M3 and move into a 911 - evolution.

That doesn't surprise me. I've owned two E46 M3's and always hankered after a 911........... I think most people/performance car enthusiasts follow the same suit and eventually end up with a 911.

 

[Dylan1]

or a cayman s !!!!via a 911-like derek, myself and others!!!

 

[dereksharpuk]

ORIGINAL: Julio Geordio

So do I stick with what I've got or trade in? I'm tempted, I have to say. And if I don't like it, I can always order a facelift 997 I suppose!

Go on... trade it in.. Buy a proper car.... No silly, not a BMW... Buy a Cayman S... It walks all over the 997S. I should know... I have had both. []

 

[Dylan1]

[]agreed!!

 

[Ronnie C]

ORIGINAL: dereksharpuk

ORIGINAL: Julio Geordio

So do I stick with what I've got or trade in? I'm tempted, I have to say. And if I don't like it, I can always order a facelift 997 I suppose!

Go on... trade it in.. Buy a proper car.... No silly, not a BMW... Buy a Cayman S... It walks all over the 997S. I should know... I have had both. []

The in coming M3 looks tempting, but looking at the financial hits the latest M cars have taken (M5 and M6) then I would have to say no thanks.

As for the Cayman, how does that walk over the 911?? If it did, then sales would be rampant. []

 

[Chris5150]

Matter of taste, but Im sure the Cayman S is a fantastic drivers car, but personally I just cannot get on with the looks at all...would take a Carrera S with X51 anyday

 

[Dylan1]

ronnie
reason cayman sales are not rampant is because porsche have severely limited importation of caymans to a fraction of 997 imports so far less caymans available to purchase.
i am in no way "dis"ing the 911 - compared to any other marque it is a fantastic car(i thoroughly enjoyed ownership of mine)its just that for me,the cayman is the sweeter handling car-others will feel differently and others the same way!

 

[Count]

I have had two E46 M3s and I'm just about to change to a C4S. Prior to the M3s I have in the past had a 911 (964 widebody) and a 968. With the occaisional need to handle children in the back, the M3 has been great. My wife can't manage the SMG box and rarely drives it so I also have the benefit of wheels that don't have much kerb damage.

The new M3 will be a very well sorted car and residuals are going to be rock solid for the first couple of years at least. The 997s depreciate "normally" it seems to me right now. My first drive in a C4S made my mind up that there was a leap in terms of the feel from the M3. The new M3 will be closer to the current 911 but that's only half the battle it has to win. I think any car you drive is basically a very public way of making a statement about yourself. The 911 makes a far bigger statement that the M3 and that won't change. The logical progression would be M3 to 911 not the other way unless you only had the one car to own and needed the practicality of the 3 Series.

For just one car for everything, M3. If not, 911 every time.

My wife will probably like driving the 911 though so it's back to the old habit of taking digital photos of the wheels before every journey she makes so I have the evidence at hand come the confrontation[] It's a factor as to whether you like the SMG shift in an M3 - for my change, the move back to a 6-speed stickshift is what I will miss the most from the M3 - SMG when you know the system and can use it properly is superb imho.

 

[Julio Geordio]

I'd agree that the logical progression is from an M3 to a 911, and the evidence on this board would seem to support that as a lot of people have made that move.

It is a difficult decision. You're absolutely right about a car making a statement about you. The 911 us almost universally perceived positively whereas the M3 is borderline "wideboy". I love cars, well interesting ones in any case. There are unemotive things to consider too. The residuals on a 911 are great, but the new M3 should hold it's value well for a while, and it does offer better practicality. I'm looking forward to playing with, and listening to the V8. I've looked at other options e.g. Maserati Gran Turismo 2+2 to be launched later this year but then you check values on 3 year old current model Masers and have to have a sit down when you see cars costing £70 - £85k on a forecourt at a little over half their original price. Frankly, I have no desire to kiss goodbye to £35k in 2 or 3 years.

I'm almost certainly going for it, but I'll be keeping one eye on the facelift 997 in a year or two.................I'm not going anywhere for a few months, but when (ok, still "if") I do leave, I'm sure I'll be back!

 

[Julio Geordio]

Went to the dealer to spec my M3 today. Comes in at over £57k with 19" alloys, SMG etc etc, from a list of £50.6k. Going off the idea now, just worried that it's being priced just too high. Also they're playing hardball, not even throwing mats in! It's not the price itself that's scarey, just the potential depreciation which of course is the true cost of any car.

Still love the 997S........but after 20 months of bliss but a facelift looming, I feel it's the right time to move on.......just not sure where to! I'd love to stick with Porsche, but it would have to be a 911and the only option that really appeals is the GT3 (but facelift still an issue?). Better put my thinking cap on, I reckon. Other options are 2yr old M5 at £28k below list (i.e. somebody else has taken a wallop on depreciation), or 360's (+ old Golf for commuting) are v. attractively priced right now. Aston's are ruled out on the basis that they're technically and dynamically inferior (although works of art, it has to be said), Jags and Mercs are out of the equation as I'm not old enough to buy one (another 13 years before I receive my Certificate of Entitlement to buy either). Granturismo looks fantastic but I have concerns about depreciation again.

Can't afford a Gallardo. Maybe a late 993 + a commuting car. There's a thought.

 

[OK1904]

How about the new Merc AMG C63? You don't need a C of E for this one. Also, the Gallardo-engined Audi S6 is a fabulous car; I had one for the weekend (the Avant) and if you're looking for practicality combined with the roar of a V10, try it. However the fuel consumption brings tears to the wallet. The RS6 comes out next year too. Having said all this I too am the owner of my first-ever Porsche, a 997S in Arctic Silver like yours, and after 15 months it's still the car I've always wanted. I don't think any of the above cars come close in terms of emotion, style and iconistic appeal.

 

[Dapster]

Headlline of today's Autocar

"RS4 beats new M3"....

 

[Grant]

The M3 is a great car, but unless you need 4 full seats & a big boot I see it as a backward step! I haven't driven the latest M3, but I have driven three previous incarnations & none of them offered the driver involvment of the 911, the gearchange was more rubbery, the steering less feelsome & the handling less alive, still good but not 911 good! In fact the only M car I really loved was the previous model M coupe, smaller noisier, more wieldy... great car! Incidentally Autocar have driven the new BMW & the first drive wasn't raving about the car!

My advice.... keep the 997S, then change for a 997GT3 when you want a little more spice in your life (biased me never[]).

 

[okellyt]

ORIGINAL: Julio Geordio

Went to the dealer to spec my M3 today. Comes in at over £57k with 19" alloys, SMG etc etc, from a list of £50.6k. Going off the idea now, just worried that it's being priced just too high. Also they're playing hardball, not even throwing mats in! It's not the price itself that's scarey, just the potential depreciation which of course is the true cost of any car.

Still love the 997S........but after 20 months of bliss but a facelift looming, I feel it's the right time to move on.......just not sure where to! I'd love to stick with Porsche, but it would have to be a 911and the only option that really appeals is the GT3 (but facelift still an issue?). Better put my thinking cap on, I reckon. Other options are 2yr old M5 at £28k below list (i.e. somebody else has taken a wallop on depreciation), or 360's (+ old Golf for commuting) are v. attractively priced right now. Aston's are ruled out on the basis that they're technically and dynamically inferior (although works of art, it has to be said), Jags and Mercs are out of the equation as I'm not old enough to buy one (another 13 years before I receive my Certificate of Entitlement to buy either). Granturismo looks fantastic but I have concerns about depreciation again.

Can't afford a Gallardo. Maybe a late 993 + a commuting car. There's a thought.

£57k for an M3.......... and I thought Porsche were into daylight robbert. Sorry but its missed the point and just won't be worth it. The ideal of the M series was something special for a small premium over a normal saloon. For that kind of money your into brand new C2 territory and I know which I'd have any day.

I'd keep the 997S if your under 20k miles you could always go the x51 upgrade to spruce up your life again. GT3/RS run is finished so there will be no more (current run is fully allocated), they may do a 997 GT3 Mk2 but no word for that yet so you can rest assured it won't happen for a few years after the facelift is out.

So if you must have a change and don't mind the deprciation hit buy a second hand 997 GT3 or Turbo, or if you must spend money buy the x51 upgrade which could well be a future classic

 

[Monty2]

Very interesting thread, as I recently added a 3 series 320si to my C2S.
I can say the beemer (although no M3) due to its motorsport additions and bigger brakes provides a superb daily fun commute set of wheels. Tonight I drifted up to a new 3 series coupe on the A1 and this discussion made me consider unless you were close enough to see the badge (if it hadn't been debadged as a no cost opt.) you would be really hard pressed to know it was an M3 and something special or an M sport (£20K less) 320d, 330 etc coupe.
jULY BMWcar magazine has some studio photos which show the new M3 in detail very well but apart from some Mini cooper esque grills it will be hard to identify the M3 as something special (hell even the new mini diesel has a bonnet power bulge), we all know it will handle and go well but with our clogged, speed camera infested roads we don't get anywhere near the 100% performance, but when you do get chance to stretch your right foot I'd think I'd rather be in my 997 and for all the other times when you are stuck in traffic IMHO I'd rather have the 997 body work around me. It also cheered me up to think the interior of the new M3 is identical to to my 320si ( unlike when I had a boxster which "nearly" but not quite looked like a 997 from the inside).

and finally, I waited for a year on the original X5 waiting list but when it came down to choosing options I pulled the plug after seeing and driving them, it takes a big man to wait for that length of time and then change his mind. Good luck.
Oh! I bought a new Range Rover instead so blew my credibility for choosing winners.

Paul

 

[pvernham]

£57K for a well specced M3 is scary.

I too have a deposit for an M3, at one stage thought I might change the 911 for one but latterly have been thinking about changing my 535d for an M3 saloon to justify it as a family car. But the premium over a highly specced 335i saloon sounds like it will be well over £15K and that is hard to justify.

 

[Rotorhead]

Keep the 997 and get a really good E30 M3.

This was the original homologation special M3 with the sweetest steering and handling[8D].