JColbourne
New member
Suspect crank carrier parts delivered to the OPC yesterday. Saw salesman who sold me the car. He's got a Porsche technical background and thought it might be thrust bearing related.
Rgds
John
Rgds
John
Mis-fire Problem
- Thread starter JColbourne
- Start date
JColbourne
New member
Just had the feedback from the OPC. Porsche GB are rejecting any claim and refusing any goodwill and are returning the faulty crank cradle to the OPC on the basis that: -
1. My car is not currently at an OPC (although the OPC did say this was a weak point of argument)
2. The mileage at 118,000 is outside of their goodwill limit of 80,000 and is excessive for the car's age (my response was to ask if in that case then they were saying that the car is not fit for purpose as an everyday business car doing around 35,000 miles per year?)
3. The car may have been on trackdays and hence subjected to abnormal conditions/performance (the nearest the car's been to a track is the car park at Donington Park)
4. The car has no extended warranty (true and accepted)
My objectives are to understand why the one half of the crank cradle has the faults that it has anyway and I would at least expect an explanation from Porsche if nothing else. Also I want to pursue the "fit for purpose" angle with as senior Porsche person that I can meet with, as I'm in the area of Porsche GB's HQ on Thursday. I'd also like to get a "yes" or "no" as to whether the problem/s would have been fixed under extended warranty anyway. That way I think all of us can learn and understand the true value of extended warranty. I'm also going to seek some advice from any relevant Consumer Advice organisations and see what useful info I can obtain.
Any other suggestions?
Regards
John
1. My car is not currently at an OPC (although the OPC did say this was a weak point of argument)
2. The mileage at 118,000 is outside of their goodwill limit of 80,000 and is excessive for the car's age (my response was to ask if in that case then they were saying that the car is not fit for purpose as an everyday business car doing around 35,000 miles per year?)
3. The car may have been on trackdays and hence subjected to abnormal conditions/performance (the nearest the car's been to a track is the car park at Donington Park)
4. The car has no extended warranty (true and accepted)
My objectives are to understand why the one half of the crank cradle has the faults that it has anyway and I would at least expect an explanation from Porsche if nothing else. Also I want to pursue the "fit for purpose" angle with as senior Porsche person that I can meet with, as I'm in the area of Porsche GB's HQ on Thursday. I'd also like to get a "yes" or "no" as to whether the problem/s would have been fixed under extended warranty anyway. That way I think all of us can learn and understand the true value of extended warranty. I'm also going to seek some advice from any relevant Consumer Advice organisations and see what useful info I can obtain.
Any other suggestions?
Regards
John
Guest
New member
Sadly, I expected this. And I doubt you will get any further with them. Consider my car was 2 weeks out of waranty had a faulty RMS and the gearbox was busted at only 24,000 miles!. I had to fight tooth and nail to get them to come forward with any goodwill for the gearbox. They eventually coughed up 50% of the cost and that was only because I found out where their suppliers GETRAG are and decided to take it to them in Belgium. They didnt want me doing that presumably because they dont want anyone dealing direct with their suppliers. I dunno. As to the RMS well I had to pay for that. Porsche GB are pathetic and very unsympathetic. And the excuse re track days is a load of cow's wad. Even Porsche GB porganise their own track days...so does that mean going on one would void any warranty!
Sorry to hear about this mate but please do keep us posted on how you get on.
Sorry to hear about this mate but please do keep us posted on how you get on.
JColbourne
New member
Hi Berny,
Thanks for the reply. I'll be making a few 'phone calls tomorrow and will update the topic accordingly. If it means contacting Stuttgart, I'll try whatever I can. The least they can do is to explain the reason for the faults on the crank cradle to my satisfaction.
Rgds
John
Thanks for the reply. I'll be making a few 'phone calls tomorrow and will update the topic accordingly. If it means contacting Stuttgart, I'll try whatever I can. The least they can do is to explain the reason for the faults on the crank cradle to my satisfaction.
Rgds
John
Guest
New member
John.
I have a piece of paper here that I wrote something on about 3 years ago maybe during my foes.
It's faded badly but here goes.
Annette Barbara Wilke is the "worldwide" support manager in Stuttgart.
The name you want is annette-barbara.wilke@porsche.de
Could be annet-barbara-wilke@porsche.de
Tel: +49 711 8911 8320
Could be +49 71(1 or 8 or 9) (2 or 8)911 8320
I spoke with her. She is very accomodating but in the end she will take the verdict of Porscge GB no matter what. Her hands are tied on that matter. She told me this herself.
I wont be reading the forum for a few days as I go into hospital tommorow for a minor op. But on my return I hope to hear some good news from you.
Cheers
Berny
I have a piece of paper here that I wrote something on about 3 years ago maybe during my foes.
It's faded badly but here goes.
Annette Barbara Wilke is the "worldwide" support manager in Stuttgart.
The name you want is annette-barbara.wilke@porsche.de
Could be annet-barbara-wilke@porsche.de
Tel: +49 711 8911 8320
Could be +49 71(1 or 8 or 9) (2 or 8)911 8320
I spoke with her. She is very accomodating but in the end she will take the verdict of Porscge GB no matter what. Her hands are tied on that matter. She told me this herself.
I wont be reading the forum for a few days as I go into hospital tommorow for a minor op. But on my return I hope to hear some good news from you.
Cheers
Berny
JColbourne
New member
Hi Berny,
Thanks for the information. I'll try Annette today but I'm not hoping for too much based on your comments.
I did ring Trading Standards today and they advised that the Sale of Goods Act 1979 covers a product's suitability for purpose for up to 6 years from original sale. The burden of proof lies with the consumer after the first 6 months have elapsed and there would appear to be a reasonable amount of actions required and extra cost without the guarantee of success. Needless to say I'm very keen now to get the car back on the road and my wife is more so, so that she can have her car back!!!
The OPC have offered me a goodwill deal on an Exchange Engine so it looks like that's the way I'll be going.
The Porsche GB Customer Services contact said that the problem would have been covered by extended warranty so I guess I've learned my lesson there then!!
Good luck with the op.
Rgds
John
Thanks for the information. I'll try Annette today but I'm not hoping for too much based on your comments.
I did ring Trading Standards today and they advised that the Sale of Goods Act 1979 covers a product's suitability for purpose for up to 6 years from original sale. The burden of proof lies with the consumer after the first 6 months have elapsed and there would appear to be a reasonable amount of actions required and extra cost without the guarantee of success. Needless to say I'm very keen now to get the car back on the road and my wife is more so, so that she can have her car back!!!
The OPC have offered me a goodwill deal on an Exchange Engine so it looks like that's the way I'll be going.
The Porsche GB Customer Services contact said that the problem would have been covered by extended warranty so I guess I've learned my lesson there then!!
Good luck with the op.
Rgds
John
JColbourne
New member
Hi Berny,
I spoke to Annette (00 49 711 911 78320) and as suspected she cannot overrule Porsche GB's decision but did take the time to listen and apologise.
I also asked about getting an analysis of the cracks and score marks on the crank cradle and an explanation as why the engine suffered the symptoms with misfiring etc . She confirmed that this wasn't normal practice but if I wanted to put my request in writing and agree to pay the costs of any further analysis they would consider it.
I can understand Porche's position regarding goodwill outside of warranty as if they are too flexible in this regard it reduces the value of extended warranty and that wouldn't please those owners who have taken out such cover.
So the bottom line is I've ordered an exchange engine this afternoon for delivery in 7 days which comes with 2 year's parts warranty and common sense says buy the extended warranty for the other items that are coverable.
The way I see the situation is that I probably would have had some preventative work done on the engine at some point anyway given its high mileage so I'm just spending the money or possibly less than that would have cost but paying it early and getting a new engine with warranty. Can't wait to get it back on the road now.
Thanks to all who have commented.
Best regards
John
I spoke to Annette (00 49 711 911 78320) and as suspected she cannot overrule Porsche GB's decision but did take the time to listen and apologise.
I also asked about getting an analysis of the cracks and score marks on the crank cradle and an explanation as why the engine suffered the symptoms with misfiring etc . She confirmed that this wasn't normal practice but if I wanted to put my request in writing and agree to pay the costs of any further analysis they would consider it.
I can understand Porche's position regarding goodwill outside of warranty as if they are too flexible in this regard it reduces the value of extended warranty and that wouldn't please those owners who have taken out such cover.
So the bottom line is I've ordered an exchange engine this afternoon for delivery in 7 days which comes with 2 year's parts warranty and common sense says buy the extended warranty for the other items that are coverable.
The way I see the situation is that I probably would have had some preventative work done on the engine at some point anyway given its high mileage so I'm just spending the money or possibly less than that would have cost but paying it early and getting a new engine with warranty. Can't wait to get it back on the road now.
Thanks to all who have commented.
Best regards
John
Andy Goss has been quoted in the past as saying that the cars are built for trackdays and that normal use on trackdays would not invalidate warranties...
Not much consolation to the wallet, but at least you'll have an engine ready for another 120,000 miles (or more, one would hope). It's probably a good selling point too.
Strange that they gave you a "goodwill limit" of 80,000 miles, and then offered a goodwill contribution. Persistence pays, and you obviously handled the situation with them well
Strange that they gave you a "goodwill limit" of 80,000 miles, and then offered a goodwill contribution. Persistence pays, and you obviously handled the situation with them well
JColbourne
New member
Hi Richard,
The 80,000 mile goodwill limit is Porsche GB's stance. The discount on the replacement engine was offered by the OPC I bought the car from and I don't think they'll be getting any support from Porsche GB, so well done and thanks to them at least.
If anyone wants to offer more than the extra £2,000 I'd be charged if I didn't send the engine back to Porsche I'd be open to offers. (Just a thought as the engine's dismantled and anyone buying would be seeing exactly what they were getting.)
Having been driving regularly for business since 1977 and estimating an average of 30,000 miles per year, a total of 900,000 miles to date, I've never had any mjaor engine problems or an engine replaced before on any car so it's just a great disappointment that my latest experience didn't match my expectations.
If the extended warranty had covered the problems as they told me today it would have (and it would have been interesting to have put it to the test regarding having the last 2 services at an independent specialist) I'd be sitting commenting on what good value warranty is if I'd taken it out!!
Rgds
John
The 80,000 mile goodwill limit is Porsche GB's stance. The discount on the replacement engine was offered by the OPC I bought the car from and I don't think they'll be getting any support from Porsche GB, so well done and thanks to them at least.
If anyone wants to offer more than the extra £2,000 I'd be charged if I didn't send the engine back to Porsche I'd be open to offers. (Just a thought as the engine's dismantled and anyone buying would be seeing exactly what they were getting.)
Having been driving regularly for business since 1977 and estimating an average of 30,000 miles per year, a total of 900,000 miles to date, I've never had any mjaor engine problems or an engine replaced before on any car so it's just a great disappointment that my latest experience didn't match my expectations.
If the extended warranty had covered the problems as they told me today it would have (and it would have been interesting to have put it to the test regarding having the last 2 services at an independent specialist) I'd be sitting commenting on what good value warranty is if I'd taken it out!!
Rgds
John
geeteethree
New member
JColbourne just sent you mail
JColbourne
New member
geeteethree - just replied thanks
geeteethree
New member
hope it helps ???
JColbourne
New member
Thanks, I'll let you know.
Rgds
John
Rgds
John
JColbourne
New member
I made another very useful contact yesterday and took the faulty crank cradle to show him. He noticed that the metal was flaking off one part and I've attached two photos to show this. I'm now more convinced that the metal that was found in the sump was off this particular part. Whether it was the cause of the misfire we'll never know but I think it stands a chance it was based on the OPC's previous experience of swarf affecting a new 997 which resulted in a moving misfire. He also said that the grind marks in my earlier posts would definitely have been done at the factory. It looks like they were trying to grind off some material from the casting process.
Also you will see from the other attached photo that another part of the cradle is showing fractures in the surface metal which I'm sure in time would have gotten more severe and flaked off as well.
My thoughts are now that it's probably a good thing that the engine was dismantled to discover this. If it the msifire had been identified and cured without engine dismantling, more metal could have broken off and caused a major engine failure whilst I was on the motorway or other fast road.
Given the evidence I've accrued, I'll write/e-mail to the Director of Engineering or equivalent in Stuttgart and see what response I can get from the Quality Control angle.
Best regards
John
Also you will see from the other attached photo that another part of the cradle is showing fractures in the surface metal which I'm sure in time would have gotten more severe and flaked off as well.
My thoughts are now that it's probably a good thing that the engine was dismantled to discover this. If it the msifire had been identified and cured without engine dismantling, more metal could have broken off and caused a major engine failure whilst I was on the motorway or other fast road.
Given the evidence I've accrued, I'll write/e-mail to the Director of Engineering or equivalent in Stuttgart and see what response I can get from the Quality Control angle.
Best regards
John
JColbourne
New member
Photo no. 2
JColbourne
New member
Photo no. 3 (fracture in surface metal)
JColbourne
New member
Diesel130,
£7,326 inc VAT which is a 10% discount. Ancilliaries and labour (taking out engine, dismantling, re-assembling old engine for return to Porsche and fitting new engine) will be extra. The OPC would have charged £4,600 + VAT for the labour element.
Hope that's useful.
I will still be pursuing a claim under The Sale of Goods Act 1979, but I have to get the car back on the road ASAP.
Rgds
John
£7,326 inc VAT which is a 10% discount. Ancilliaries and labour (taking out engine, dismantling, re-assembling old engine for return to Porsche and fitting new engine) will be extra. The OPC would have charged £4,600 + VAT for the labour element.
Hope that's useful.
I will still be pursuing a claim under The Sale of Goods Act 1979, but I have to get the car back on the road ASAP.
Rgds
John
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