My 2019 718 Cayman GTS PDK

[Motorhead]

Brian,

Ralph makes some very pointed comments and I think I've mentioned elsewhere about concerns regarding the extraction of lithium and cobalt for use in batteries, particularly in Bolivia and DR Congo respectively, both of which are very poor countries and open to exploitation.

In addition to the tax incentives provided by the Norwegian government to bolster the take-up of e-cars, I note that drivers of such vehicles in Oslo can also use the bus lanes. Can you imagine the chaos that would cause if this was allowed in London or any other of the UK's major cities..? Mind you, the population of Norway is dwarfed by that of London alone (~ 5.35m versus 8.79m), so drawing comparisons between the UK and Norway is somewhat pointless. And I believe that even the Norwegians are struggling to cope with the rapid increase in demand for open-access charging points.

Jeff

 

[PHB1969]

I recall seeing a motoring programme recently and I believe the Norwegians are reducing some of the benefits such as free tolls etc. The issue I think that exists is still the infrastructure to support recharging and what percentage conversion rate of petrol/diesel cars to electric that the national grid could support.....it‘s Not going to be 100% I’m sure.

The whole green agenda perhaps needs some review, a couple of years back, solar feed in tariff was significantly reduced impacting payback for new systems (historic installation rates were protected). Such systems, appropriately configured with storage cells could be used to part charge vehicles (today I generated 21 KWh from a 4KW array with c 70% fed back into the grid).

 

[Ray]

Don't get me going on FITs. Energy bills have risen due to feed in tarrifs. People are paying for the energy they use and also paying through their taxes to either wind or solar energy generation through FITs.

Green energy should stand on it's own two feet and not be subsidised by the public purce. I have campaigned for years about this injustice. Rant done.

Ray

 

[Brian_Innes]

Ralph and Jeff both make valid points on the e-car topic.

Without going into the hornets nest of lithium sourcing, and the environmental manufacturing processes involved with e-cars, the point of my post was merely to convey my superficial impressions when following one of the new BMW i3S at speed on a busy public inter-city road. The car impressed me.

Regarding Norway, I quite agree that a comparison with London is a non-starter. I was thinking more of Scotland, where with a population of around 5 million is very similar to Norway and with a comparable climate, geographical base, sustainable energy resources, and population distribution densities. Whether the tax incentives provided in Norway would ever be replicated in Scotland, or indeed the wider UK as whole is a moot point.

I am keeping an open mind as to the options available to me for a replacement daily driver vehicle when my touring days are finally over.

Brian

 

[ralphmusic]

Re hydrogen,

https://twitter.com/auto_schmidt/status/1131834710034997249

Although Hacki of this parish says there are no hydrogen vehicles registered in Gütersloh, it's helpful for the tourist trade

 

[Motorhead]

I still reckon that the biggest obstacle to the proliferation of zero emission vehicles is the provision of the infrastructure, be it charge points (EV) or refuelling stations (H2), which lags inevitably behind production of such vehicles.

With the introduction of the Taycan later this year and - perhaps more importantly - the upcoming Macan EV the Porsche forum chatter's going to be interesting..!

Jeff

 

[mikeg]

Slightly off topic but I've been looking at Michelin Pilot Sport 4S's and found on Blackcircles and My Tyres a strange variation in that the N0 version is about £30 more for exactly the same tyre - any views why ?

Thanks

 

[Brian_Innes]

Mike,

The PS4S N0 has an entirely different sidewall profile compared to the standard PS4S. The N0 version, only available in 20" sizes, was specially developed by Michelin for the 718 Cayman, but for some unknown reason Porsche delayed the sign-off of the PS4S N0 for more than 12 months. It was worth the wait.

Both the standard PS4S and the N0 version are superb tyres for any Cayman. It is your choice whether or not to pay the premium for the N0 version which is the result of extensive development testing by Michelin and Porsche specifically for the 718 model launch.

Unfortunately N rated Michelins are always more expensive than the standard unmarked product.

Brian

 

[Wollemi]

Slightly off topic but I've been looking at Michelin Pilot Sport 4S's and found on Blackcircles and My Tyres a strange variation in that the N0 version is about £30 more for exactly the same tyre - any views why ?

Thanks

Well it’s going to be mostly a matter of supply and demand but also it’s not exactly the same tyre. As Brian Innes has already recorded, the N0 tyre has different sidewalls and different rim protection to the generic version. It’s entirely possible that there will be other unseen differences as well.

For those who still think that the N rating is nothing more that a marking on the sidewall, a friend of mine went to a Porsche Club talk from Pirelli and he recounted:

”I was highly surprised (shocked?) when they showed us 4 same sized P Zero tyres but each made for a different manufacturer, Porsche, Audi, Ferrari and Jaguar I think. Other than the car makers code on the side, externally they looked the same as regards tread pattern etc, but the construction of each was totally different. Some were 3 ply, some single ply, the beading profile was different etc, effectively 4 totally different tyres bearing the same name and tread, each designed to the manufacturers requirements as regards handling in dry and wet weather, suspension, noise etc.”

 

[geoff lane]

Slightly off topic but I've been looking at Michelin Pilot Sport 4S's and found on Blackcircles and My Tyres a strange variation in that the N0 version is about £30 more for exactly the same tyre - any views why ?

Thanks

Well it’s going to be mostly a matter of supply and demand but also it’s not exactly the same tyre. As Brian Innes has already recorded, the N0 tyre has different sidewalls and different rim protection to the generic version. It’s entirely possible that there will be other unseen differences as well.

For those who still think that the N rating is nothing more that a marking on the sidewall, a friend of mine went to a Porsche Club talk from Pirelli and he recounted:

”I was highly surprised (shocked?) when they showed us 4 same sized P Zero tyres but each made for a different manufacturer, Porsche, Audi, Ferrari and Jaguar I think. Other than the car makers code on the side, externally they looked the same as regards tread pattern etc, but the construction of each was totally different. Some were 3 ply, some single ply, the beading profile was different etc, effectively 4 totally different tyres bearing the same name and tread, each designed to the manufacturers requirements as regards handling in dry and wet weather, suspension, noise etc.”

Yes correct I went on the same visit, the Pirelli guy also explained what happens when you mix tyres that look to the un trained eye exactly the same. It made me re access my knowledge banks, just because it looks the same the handling characteristics can be totally different and it becomes an accident waiting to happen. If you fit rated tyres make sure they are all the same, very important.

There were examples of accidents that when examined appeared to be as a result of the behaviour of mixed rated tyres whose appearance was exactly the same..

 

[Motorhead]

If the above is correct then I suspect that the only common factor between the tyres will be the tread pattern?

Jeff

 

[Brian_Innes]

If the above is correct then I suspect that the only common factor between the tyres will be the tread pattern?

Jeff

Jeff,

That's pretty much it.

During my long wait for the release of the Michelin PS4S N0 in 2017, I had exchanged several emails from the Michelin technical team and it was confirmed that the N rated PS4S tyre was specially developed to suit the handling characteristics of the 718 Cayman. This involved specific sidewall, compound mix, and carcass construction differences compared to the generic PS4S, which incidentally had already been released for retail sale by Michelin.

Brian

 

[Brian_Innes]

As a postscript to the above, it is also worth noting that N rated tyres are axle specific. For example, the 991 GT3 RS uses 265 x 35 x 20 Michelin Cup 2 N rated tyres on the front wheels. Some Cayman owners may be tempted to fit these tyres to the rear wheels as they are of the same size and profile. Not a good idea.

The N rated tyres are tested and developed for each specific Porsche application. So, an N rated front tyre, will not be best suited for fitting to the rear driving wheels as the compound mix, sidewall and carcass construction will be optimised for steering, and not suited for rear wheel power transmission.

Tyres are a very technical topic.

Brian

 

[Wollemi]

So the safest path is to only fit the tyres that Porsche list for your specific vehicle. As your vehicle ages these tyres may well be older technology, but at least you know for certain that they will suit your car perfectly.

To my mind mind this is better than fitting more modern generic tyres which will undoubtedly have some benefits, but also disadvantages through not having been optimised for that vehicle.

so that is why I’ve decided to stay with PS2N2s on my 987.2S as I have been totally happy with their behaviour for the last three sets. (Ok - they don’t last very long and maybe a newer tyre would give longer life?)

 

[Brian_Innes]

Graham,

Your logic is perfectly sound in my opinion. Although the PS2 is a 12 year old tyre design it was specifically designed for the 987 Cayman in N rated form. The PS2 N2 is an evolution of the original Porsche PS2 tyre and will have some construction and compound differences from the PS2 N1. I know of other Cayman 987.2 owners who are also perfectly satisfied with the PS2 N2.

The main differences in tyre technology over the years has been the introduction of dual compound tread compounds and wet road grip performance. Originally the preserve of track tyres such as the Cup 2, dual compound treads have now become common on high-end premium road tyres such as the PS4S. Whether this factor is worth the extra outlay on your 987.2 is up to you.

As I said, tyres are a very technical subject.

Brian

 

[mikeg]

Thanks for all the responses - a lot more to this topic than I envisaged.

Currently have GY Eagle Asymmetric 2's on my 987.2 which I have been very pleased with. My new (to me) 718 S is coming with Pirelli's but may think about the PS4S's given the above.

Many thanks

 

[Jedimaster65]

Hi Brian! Peter here, we met and chatted at the Dakota Forth bridge last Monday am as you metioned in your earlier post. It was great to meet you.

I have been reading the thread and its a shame I hid my GTS round the back because had you seen it, you would have immediately spotted my Zunsport grilles! Soon after getting the car I realised just how vulnerable the rads are and got a set. Now here is the interesting bit for you: I pointed them out to Steve Hewitt (after sales Mgr) at Chester OPC and he said how nice & oem they looked and never made any comment at all about warranty issues (mine is also under extended warranty) so I would suggest you just go ahead.

Regarding the 'Grand Tour' of Scotland, it went pretty well apart from the A939 Old Military road near Ballater when a bloody fool in a big HGV kept on coming on the most rough and narrow section, when he should have stopped and came about 1mm from ripping my wings off! I was stopped, but still cannot believe he didn't hit me. Sheer stupidity! We went on to have a brew at the 'Clock Face' in Tomintoul, (as you recommended), then Aberlour, Dufftown, Glenfiddich Distillery, Banff, Cullen, Lossiemouth, Culloden, Inverness, Loch Ness, Fort William, Glenfinnan, (we even drove alongside the steam train!) Camusdarach beach, Glencoe, Aberfoyle and finishing at Loch Ard before returning to the Lake District for a bonus night.

Very wet on Weds, and we found quite a lot of roads in fairly poor condition it has to be said...(There were a lot of road works near Fort William-Glenfinnan) but we had a great trip nevertheless...The last two days weather was great. I should add that I found the P-Zero's (NO) factory-fitted to my car pretty awful, despite being in great shape with 9000 miles only, low wear, they did not like the colder conditions last week (lots of Ackerman steering-skipping at parking speeds) and they seem quite noisy especially on the motorway...-must get some Michelin PS4S soon if you guys recommend them?

 

[Brian_Innes]

Thanks for the update Peter.

Glad you enjoyed your Scotland tour. Meeting large vehicles coming at you on the narrow, single track sections of road are always a heart-stopping moment. You did the right thing stopping before the HGV passed. That puts the onus on the other party to avoid hitting you. I've also had a few close encounters with inconsiderate drivers of bulky vehicles.......mainly 4x4's in my case.

Thanks also for the info on the grills. I've yet to fit the large outer grills, but it's on the agenda soon.

Brian

 

[Jedimaster65]

Thanks Brian.

We did enjoy Scotland. Might come back in the autumn when the roads are fixed.

 

[Jedimaster65]

Brian,

I forgot to mention, here is a close up snap of my Zunsports...they are not as easy to fit as some might have you believe...took me 45 mins of swearing to get my entire set done...and boy did my fingers hurt! Also I do wish the mesh grille was slightly less 'open' as a lot of bugs and wasps etc still get through.