Jedimaster65
New member
...see what I mean?
My 2019 718 Cayman GTS PDK
- Thread starter Brian_Innes
- Start date
Brian_Innes
Member
Following on from my earlier post regarding a possible 981-718 Cayman GTS comparison, I had a very positive meeting with PCGB R2 member Hamish, in Aberdeen today. We discussed in detail the proposed format, location, and timescale for the comparison review. It'll be at a Highland location mutually accessible for both parties, with some fabulous roads, steep hills, and spectacular scenery to enjoy. The plan is to showcase these amazing cars at their dynamic best.
The Carmine Red 981 Cayman GTS PDK owned by Hamish is a 2016 individually specced car, as mine is. We both had the same objective, to order the cars we wanted rather than go for a stock OPC item.
Hopefully, I shall be able to arrange insurance cover for the day so we can both drive each other's car to enable a proper objective comparison between the two models. Interestingly, Hamish has never driven a 718. In my case, although I have previous experience of driving the 981 Cayman S PDK, I have not driven the GTS model. The plan is to compile a short written appraisal on each other's car by both respective owners. It should be a very rewarding and interesting day. Photos will be taken on the day for illustration purposes.
Just to be clear for the benefit of the flat-4 turbo poopers, this will not be a 718 biased report. Journalistic balance will be my prime objective. I have huge respect for the 981 Cayman GTS, in fact I very nearly bought one. I took a big gamble in ordering my first 718 CS in 2016. The press reports were scathing about the flat-4 turbo engine, particularly the exhaust pipe acoustics. At the time I did wonder whether I had made a very expensive mistake. All that is now history, and I am looking forward to a fascinating experience comparing the two cars on roads and surroundings that will do them justice. The window of opportunity is planned for the month of June.
Watch this space.
Brian
The Carmine Red 981 Cayman GTS PDK owned by Hamish is a 2016 individually specced car, as mine is. We both had the same objective, to order the cars we wanted rather than go for a stock OPC item.
Hopefully, I shall be able to arrange insurance cover for the day so we can both drive each other's car to enable a proper objective comparison between the two models. Interestingly, Hamish has never driven a 718. In my case, although I have previous experience of driving the 981 Cayman S PDK, I have not driven the GTS model. The plan is to compile a short written appraisal on each other's car by both respective owners. It should be a very rewarding and interesting day. Photos will be taken on the day for illustration purposes.
Just to be clear for the benefit of the flat-4 turbo poopers, this will not be a 718 biased report. Journalistic balance will be my prime objective. I have huge respect for the 981 Cayman GTS, in fact I very nearly bought one. I took a big gamble in ordering my first 718 CS in 2016. The press reports were scathing about the flat-4 turbo engine, particularly the exhaust pipe acoustics. At the time I did wonder whether I had made a very expensive mistake. All that is now history, and I am looking forward to a fascinating experience comparing the two cars on roads and surroundings that will do them justice. The window of opportunity is planned for the month of June.
Watch this space.
Brian
Brian_Innes
Member
In the last month two couples known to me from south of the border have enjoyed the delights of touring the north Highlands in their Porsches. In both cases they remarked very positively upon enjoying the wonderful scenery and relatively traffic-free roads which are a feature of the north Highlands of Scotland where I live.
In the July issue of Motor Sport magazine, Andrew Frankel in his article laments the fact that he believes motoring for pleasure will become ever more socially unacceptable than it is now, and legislation will be brought in to reflect that. He goes on to say it may already be happening. No doubt aided and abetted by the car-hating eco zealots who are gaining ever more air time venting their distorted opinions on the national media.
I cannot help but feel sorry for the young car enthusiasts of today, especially those who are currently sampling motorsport participation for the first time. Take the Ginetta Junior Championship for example, where 14 to 17 year olds compete in identical Ginetta sports coupes as part of the support races at the British Touring Car Championship events. With national television coverage ably provided by ITV4, this series offers young drivers with the opportunity to progress into the higher echelons of the sport. A perfect example of this is young Dan Harper, current Porsche Carrera Cup driver, who graduated from 100bhp Ginetta Juniors into the 485bhp Carrera Cup cars with a remarkable display of natural driving talent in what is a very competitive category to be racing in. He is currently winning races against formidable and more experienced opposition in what are fairly tricky cars to drive at racing speeds.
My point is, that with all the negative opinions on car use and driving in general being rammed down our throats at every opportunity by the protest groups, I fear for the future of driving as an art, and motor sport as a hobby. At 72 years of age I have had my fun. I started competing in club motor sport events at 17 years old, encouraged and supported by my late father, also a driving and motor sport enthusiast. I have probably now reached the stage where I have driven most of the miles I will ever do in my lifetime. Driving and cars have been my passion for all of my adult life. I, and others like me, have probably experienced first hand the greatest advances of automotive technology that will ever happen. I cannot see the 17 year olds of today enjoying the same diverse range of driving experiences as I have been fortunate enough to have done. With electric cars and autonomous vehicles already with us, what chance have young car enthusiasts of today got to develop their driving skills to the same standards as that of my generation? Track driving tuition in heeling and toeing, threshold braking, trail braking, steering hinting, etc, will all become obsolete in the not too distant future I fear.
My final plea is to make the most of our Porsches while we still can. Make a point of going on the UK and European tours before it's too late. Take part in a track day before the eco warriors ban such frivolity. For my part, I am eternally grateful to have lived in the best of times for driving, and to have done some things with cars which are probably best left unsaid.
Brian
In the July issue of Motor Sport magazine, Andrew Frankel in his article laments the fact that he believes motoring for pleasure will become ever more socially unacceptable than it is now, and legislation will be brought in to reflect that. He goes on to say it may already be happening. No doubt aided and abetted by the car-hating eco zealots who are gaining ever more air time venting their distorted opinions on the national media.
I cannot help but feel sorry for the young car enthusiasts of today, especially those who are currently sampling motorsport participation for the first time. Take the Ginetta Junior Championship for example, where 14 to 17 year olds compete in identical Ginetta sports coupes as part of the support races at the British Touring Car Championship events. With national television coverage ably provided by ITV4, this series offers young drivers with the opportunity to progress into the higher echelons of the sport. A perfect example of this is young Dan Harper, current Porsche Carrera Cup driver, who graduated from 100bhp Ginetta Juniors into the 485bhp Carrera Cup cars with a remarkable display of natural driving talent in what is a very competitive category to be racing in. He is currently winning races against formidable and more experienced opposition in what are fairly tricky cars to drive at racing speeds.
My point is, that with all the negative opinions on car use and driving in general being rammed down our throats at every opportunity by the protest groups, I fear for the future of driving as an art, and motor sport as a hobby. At 72 years of age I have had my fun. I started competing in club motor sport events at 17 years old, encouraged and supported by my late father, also a driving and motor sport enthusiast. I have probably now reached the stage where I have driven most of the miles I will ever do in my lifetime. Driving and cars have been my passion for all of my adult life. I, and others like me, have probably experienced first hand the greatest advances of automotive technology that will ever happen. I cannot see the 17 year olds of today enjoying the same diverse range of driving experiences as I have been fortunate enough to have done. With electric cars and autonomous vehicles already with us, what chance have young car enthusiasts of today got to develop their driving skills to the same standards as that of my generation? Track driving tuition in heeling and toeing, threshold braking, trail braking, steering hinting, etc, will all become obsolete in the not too distant future I fear.
My final plea is to make the most of our Porsches while we still can. Make a point of going on the UK and European tours before it's too late. Take part in a track day before the eco warriors ban such frivolity. For my part, I am eternally grateful to have lived in the best of times for driving, and to have done some things with cars which are probably best left unsaid.
Brian
Jedimaster65
New member
Couldn't agree more Brian!
I recently did the Porsche RS trackday experience at Silverstone PEC and was reminded of all these driving skills again, it was brilliant. Recommended, even though it costs a grand (!).
Our trip to the highlands was also brilliant, (the scenery is tremendous) despite the dreich weather, only blunted by some of the road quality (some roads were amazing, some others terrible) but maybe we would have seen an improvement after all the repairs later in the year.
The comments you make about the stupid left wing eco warriors ruining motoring are very valid I think...I was a subscriber to CAR magazine and they rang me last week to ask how I was enjoying the mag: I told them I was cancelling the mag due to it's obsession with in-car 'tech', electric vehicles, self driving cars, etc None of which is of interest to me whatsoever. I am 98 Ron dinosaur and proud of it!
We truly are in the twilight of the normally aspirated and even petrol internal combustion engine era, so agree we really need to make the most of it.
Happy motoring!
I recently did the Porsche RS trackday experience at Silverstone PEC and was reminded of all these driving skills again, it was brilliant. Recommended, even though it costs a grand (!).
Our trip to the highlands was also brilliant, (the scenery is tremendous) despite the dreich weather, only blunted by some of the road quality (some roads were amazing, some others terrible) but maybe we would have seen an improvement after all the repairs later in the year.
The comments you make about the stupid left wing eco warriors ruining motoring are very valid I think...I was a subscriber to CAR magazine and they rang me last week to ask how I was enjoying the mag: I told them I was cancelling the mag due to it's obsession with in-car 'tech', electric vehicles, self driving cars, etc None of which is of interest to me whatsoever. I am 98 Ron dinosaur and proud of it!
We truly are in the twilight of the normally aspirated and even petrol internal combustion engine era, so agree we really need to make the most of it.
Happy motoring!
mikeg
Member
.... and the pace of change shouldn't surprise us.
Feels like farrier's in New York at the turn of the last century - in 1900 the horse was totally dominant, by 1908 it was 50/50 to the automobile and by 1915 they had almost totally disappeared.
Enjoy motoring while you can - it won't be long!!!!
Feels like farrier's in New York at the turn of the last century - in 1900 the horse was totally dominant, by 1908 it was 50/50 to the automobile and by 1915 they had almost totally disappeared.
Enjoy motoring while you can - it won't be long!!!!
Being a septuagenarian like yourself Brian, as on many occasions I find myself very much in tune with your sentiments.
Now here's the latest proposal from the Enviromental Gestapo (my capitals!): acoustic cameras https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48564995
Next up I think we should expect a plan to reintroduce the Red Flag Law requiring self-propelled vehicles to have a pedestrian waving a red flag preceding every vehicle..!
Jeff
Now here's the latest proposal from the Enviromental Gestapo (my capitals!): acoustic cameras https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48564995
Next up I think we should expect a plan to reintroduce the Red Flag Law requiring self-propelled vehicles to have a pedestrian waving a red flag preceding every vehicle..!
Jeff
Brian_Innes
Member
Jeff,
I noted the piece on noise cameras on breakfast tv this morning. What next I ask? There seems to be no end to the armoury of sticks and clubs at the disposal of the traffic authorities with which to beat us enthusiasts over the head with. At least the tv piece focused on motorbikes, some of which when accelerating full blast are akin to formula racing cars of the past. I think the days of realistically considering modified exhausts on our Porsches are well and truly numbered. Even track day noise limits are becoming ever more stringent.
Another point on the noise cameras, should tax-payers money be spent on installing these roadside acoustic cameras in built up areas? With the focus being on converting us all to electric city cars the noise cameras will be obsolete in a less than a decade. The money would be better spent fixing the potholes.
Brian
I noted the piece on noise cameras on breakfast tv this morning. What next I ask? There seems to be no end to the armoury of sticks and clubs at the disposal of the traffic authorities with which to beat us enthusiasts over the head with. At least the tv piece focused on motorbikes, some of which when accelerating full blast are akin to formula racing cars of the past. I think the days of realistically considering modified exhausts on our Porsches are well and truly numbered. Even track day noise limits are becoming ever more stringent.
Another point on the noise cameras, should tax-payers money be spent on installing these roadside acoustic cameras in built up areas? With the focus being on converting us all to electric city cars the noise cameras will be obsolete in a less than a decade. The money would be better spent fixing the potholes.
Brian
Hear, Hear Brian..!
Your comment that the TV piece focussed on motorbike exhaust noise is pertinent because from my perspective the greatest offender for 4+ wheeled vehicles is tyre noise and not powertrain-related noise. Electric traction isn't goint to help in that respect; and to add insult to injury, from July all new electrified vehicles will be required to feature a noise-emitting device that warns pedestrians, cyclists and other vulnerable road users to their presence:
https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/107077/all-new-electrified-cars-must-emit-noise-to-warn-pedestrians-from-july
Really, you couldn't make it up could you..?
Jeff
Your comment that the TV piece focussed on motorbike exhaust noise is pertinent because from my perspective the greatest offender for 4+ wheeled vehicles is tyre noise and not powertrain-related noise. Electric traction isn't goint to help in that respect; and to add insult to injury, from July all new electrified vehicles will be required to feature a noise-emitting device that warns pedestrians, cyclists and other vulnerable road users to their presence:
https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/107077/all-new-electrified-cars-must-emit-noise-to-warn-pedestrians-from-july
Really, you couldn't make it up could you..?
Jeff
Jedimaster65
New member
Brian / Jeff, Hmmm...based on that Autoexpress article, it must make my car one of the safest on the road? 
Lol,
cheers
Peter
Lol,
cheers
Peter
Or, the money could be used to catch proper criminals. I suppose a noise camera is another investment in the ever increasing ways/methods of raising capitol from the cash strapped motorist. What will this money fund , pot holes? I doubt that very much, like much of the revenue raised in taxes and fines the money will disappear into the ether. Never to be seen or accounted for again.BJ Innes said:
Ray
Brian_Innes
Member
718 Cayman GTS PDK v 981 Cayman GTS PDK
An update on my post of 30th May regarding the above comparative review, a date has now been set for next Tuesday 18th June. Hopefully the weather will have improved by then.
Insurance cover has already been arranged for the day to allow both owners to appraise each other's car from behind the wheel. We are very much looking forward to comparing the two cars on roads that will ideally suit the dynamic abilities of both models.
The purpose of this comparison will be to try to convey to readers a fair opinion of each other's car, and not to decide on a "winner" at the conclusion. Both the 981 GTS and 718 GTS are the top "mainstream" models of their respective era and will be respected as such by both owners. The idea being to provide prospective purchasers as well as current owners the opportunity to compare the views of two experienced Porsche drivers on the cars they love.
Brian
An update on my post of 30th May regarding the above comparative review, a date has now been set for next Tuesday 18th June. Hopefully the weather will have improved by then.
Insurance cover has already been arranged for the day to allow both owners to appraise each other's car from behind the wheel. We are very much looking forward to comparing the two cars on roads that will ideally suit the dynamic abilities of both models.
The purpose of this comparison will be to try to convey to readers a fair opinion of each other's car, and not to decide on a "winner" at the conclusion. Both the 981 GTS and 718 GTS are the top "mainstream" models of their respective era and will be respected as such by both owners. The idea being to provide prospective purchasers as well as current owners the opportunity to compare the views of two experienced Porsche drivers on the cars they love.
Brian
Brian_Innes
Member
981 Cayman GTS PDK - 718 Cayman GTS PDK
Yesterday, I enjoyed a very interesting and rewarding day driving the Carmine Red 981 Cayman GTS PDK owned by fellow R2 Scotland North member from Aberdeen, Hamish Annand. As previously mentioned, insurance cover was already in place for each of us to drive one another's car for the day.
The location chosen for the comparative review was the A93 Ballater, Braemar, Glenshee, road in highland Aberdeenshire. This route was a last-minute change of plan. My original choice, the A939 Corgarff - Lecht road, had road works ongoing incorporating traffic controlled convoys, while the dreaded top dressing of gravel chips was applied to an otherwise perfectly good road surface. Unfortunately Aberdeenshire Council persists with this budget-driven summer exercise in road maintenance despite the innumerable shattered windscreens and damaged paintwork it causes. Another factor in moving the location was the appearance of two flocks of free-roaming sheep with young lambs on the upper reaches of the Lecht road.
For this particular report, in order to keep it readable and manageable, it's best to split the narrative into individual parts.
Part 1. Individual specification with photos.
Part 2. My driving impressions of the 981 Cayman GTS.
Part 3. Hamish's driving impressions of the 718 Cayman GTS.
My intention is to compile this report over the next few days. I shall await the narrative from Hamish on his driving impressions of my car in due course, so please bear with me.
Meantime I have attached below a photo of the cars and drivers at the Glenshee ski centre.
Brian
Yesterday, I enjoyed a very interesting and rewarding day driving the Carmine Red 981 Cayman GTS PDK owned by fellow R2 Scotland North member from Aberdeen, Hamish Annand. As previously mentioned, insurance cover was already in place for each of us to drive one another's car for the day.
The location chosen for the comparative review was the A93 Ballater, Braemar, Glenshee, road in highland Aberdeenshire. This route was a last-minute change of plan. My original choice, the A939 Corgarff - Lecht road, had road works ongoing incorporating traffic controlled convoys, while the dreaded top dressing of gravel chips was applied to an otherwise perfectly good road surface. Unfortunately Aberdeenshire Council persists with this budget-driven summer exercise in road maintenance despite the innumerable shattered windscreens and damaged paintwork it causes. Another factor in moving the location was the appearance of two flocks of free-roaming sheep with young lambs on the upper reaches of the Lecht road.
For this particular report, in order to keep it readable and manageable, it's best to split the narrative into individual parts.
Part 1. Individual specification with photos.
Part 2. My driving impressions of the 981 Cayman GTS.
Part 3. Hamish's driving impressions of the 718 Cayman GTS.
My intention is to compile this report over the next few days. I shall await the narrative from Hamish on his driving impressions of my car in due course, so please bear with me.
Meantime I have attached below a photo of the cars and drivers at the Glenshee ski centre.
Brian
Brian_Innes
Member
981 Cayman GTS Spec.
Brian_Innes
Member
718 Cayman GTS Spec.
Brian_Innes
Member
981 Cayman GTS Cabin.
Brian_Innes
Member
718 Cayman GTS Cabin.
Brian_Innes
Member
981 Cayman GTS PDK - 718 Cayman GTS PDK
Comparative Technical Data:
Kerb Weight DIN: 981 Cayman GTS PDK
1370kg - 1440kg depending upon specification.
Kerb Weight DIN: 718 GTS PDK
1420kg - 1490kg depending upon specification.
981 Cayman GTS PDK - Maximum Engine Power - 340bhp at 7400rpm. Maximum Permitted Revs - 7800rpm.
718 Cayman GTS PDK - Maximum Engine Power - 365bhp at 6500rpm. Maximum Permitted Revs - 7500rpm.
981 Cayman GTS PDK - Maximum Torque - 380Nm at 4750rpm - 5800rpm.
718 Cayman GTS PDK - Maximum Torque - 430Nm at 1900rpm - 5000rpm.
It is also worth mentioning that the PDK intermediate gearbox ratios are also changed on the 718 compared to those on the 981. The ratios 1 - 5 are shorter to better suit the torque characteristics of the flat-4 turbo engine.
Brian
Comparative Technical Data:
Kerb Weight DIN: 981 Cayman GTS PDK
1370kg - 1440kg depending upon specification.
Kerb Weight DIN: 718 GTS PDK
1420kg - 1490kg depending upon specification.
981 Cayman GTS PDK - Maximum Engine Power - 340bhp at 7400rpm. Maximum Permitted Revs - 7800rpm.
718 Cayman GTS PDK - Maximum Engine Power - 365bhp at 6500rpm. Maximum Permitted Revs - 7500rpm.
981 Cayman GTS PDK - Maximum Torque - 380Nm at 4750rpm - 5800rpm.
718 Cayman GTS PDK - Maximum Torque - 430Nm at 1900rpm - 5000rpm.
It is also worth mentioning that the PDK intermediate gearbox ratios are also changed on the 718 compared to those on the 981. The ratios 1 - 5 are shorter to better suit the torque characteristics of the flat-4 turbo engine.
Brian
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