My 2019 718 Cayman GTS PDK

[Twinfan]

There are a lot of F4T haters, in particular the US have shunned the 718 pretty badly. An F6 718 would really boost sales in some markets and I think here in the UK they would sell quite a few to the NA lovers.

I don't see why Porsche WOULDN'T bring the six cylinder Cayman/Boxster back, it's much missed by many people.

 

[COD981]

Like you Brian I don't really see that there is enough room to slip a 718-6 into between the gts and gt4 bearing in mind the increased average group co value and the likely power level and price it would be pitched at, it would seem the only case for it would be to spread the development costs for the gt4 engine and boost 718 sales to those who really mis the 6 pot sound, Or just maybe could porsche perhaps be thinking of dropping the 2.5.? Making the range 718 2.0, 718-6 or s and gt4

 

[Twinfan]

One rumour suggests that the 2.5 F4T will be dropped from the GTS and the 718-6 will actually be an updated 718 GTS.

 

[JMR]

Thanks JMR.

If the positive experiences of others on this forum are anything to go by, you'll not be disappointed. The wonderful roads and stunning scenery of the north Highlands are absolutely perfect for enjoying Porsche driving at its best, and all within the speed limits. Currently the tourist season is in full swing and the popular scenic routes are very busy. By applying a little local knowledge and timing, there are still many miles of relatively empty roads to enjoy. To avoid the hoards of camper vans and caravans, best to explore the Highlands in the shoulder seasons of March, April, May, and September, October, November. Global warming has resulted in milder winters in the far north.

I've been up in the highlands a few times as I may have said before, probably 10 years ago now since I last went.

Last time up there I did the Whisky Trail with my dad for a few days (who I've just done the Cotswold Rally with)

It's a toss up who gets to come with me, my old man, my son (17) or the wife.

Week off in October could sound good

 

[Brian_Innes]

There are a lot of F4T haters, in particular the US have shunned the 718 pretty badly. An F6 718 would really boost sales in some markets and I think here in the UK they would sell quite a few to the NA lovers.

I don't see why Porsche WOULDN'T bring the six cylinder Cayman/Boxster back, it's much missed by many people.

Thanks for that David.

Porsche should perhaps listen to the many satisfied owners of the 718 flat-4 turbo. It seems to me that the 718 2.5 flat-4 is an easy punching bag for those who don't own one. I have a reasonable experience of owning the Cayman model, and in my opinion, specced properly, it is a brilliant car for serious drivers.

If Porsche do indeed scrap the 2.5 flat-4 turbo GTS and replace it with an n/a flat-6, it will be an utter betrayal of Porsche's original 718 launch rationale, and a kick in the teeth to all the people who invested in the car.

For me, I hope you are wrong with your prediction/hope.

Brian

 

[PHB1969]

The reality is that the F4T is the only new offering as it stands, GT4 aside. I’m new to proper Porsche ownership (did have a 944 years back) and wanting a new car, my choice was limited to the F4T. Mine is “only” the 2.0 and I'm not disappointed. Would that be different if I had come from a 6 cylinder NA maybe, but as a new car, that was not an option.

It looks beautiful, the performance is great, the handling is great and I’ve even managed 42.6mpg from it on a long run and regularly see high thirties. What is not to like?

 

[Twinfan]

I've driven the F4T several times in both base and S guise, and it's definitely not for me. It's not an "easy punching bag for those who don't own one" - I don't own one because I found it awful under my right foot. Everyone's different though, so each to their own, but you have you realise that the majority of NA F6 lovers are not going to warm to the F4T in droves any time soon.

Personally, and for the record, I don't care whether they bring it back or not - I'm just passing on what I've read and heard. I'm keeping my 981 for the long haul.

 

[Jedimaster65]

I agree with Twinfan.

I decided to go for 981 after 718 was already out on the market In late 2017. I had the choice. it would even have been cheaper for me because the 718 GTS wasn't out then, I tried a 718 and like car but the engine throttle response low down, the weird wheezing and gasping, overall droning, etc did not make me feel I was driving a Porsche at all...more like an Audi RS3 or something. I prefered the look of the 981 too so chose a really nice one with low miles. I have driven 3x 718's and not changed my view.

As for what is not to like on 718...how about the SOUND?

I think Porsches mistake was really that they rushed out the turbo engine and should have done more work on the exhaust note, manifolds and mapping maybe.

As Chris Harris said: "The 718 is still a seriously fast machine and a really nice sportscar (just not as nice as the one before!)" Lol!

As for them reintroducing the F6, doesn't that show that they are listening?

Giving a choice solves the problem and keeps everyone happy, surely?

Happy motoring.

 

[Motorhead]

Peter,

I'm not going to get involved in the 981 vs 718 debate, but if it wasn't for the GT4 (and the Spyder hanging onto the GT-car's coat tails) I doubt Porsche would even have considered developing a n/a variant of the 9A2 Evo engine. Having done so they have now to recoup the significant development and additional production costs; hence the mooted 718-6 cars which most probably will be produced in some sort of limited numbers rather than as mainstream vehicles, unless demand indicates otherwise.

Of course tthere's always the possibility that the engine will find its way into a 992 variant - now the repercussions of that would be very interesting..!

Jeff

 

[Brian_Innes]

In response to Twinfan and Jedimaster, I completely accept that there are irreconcilable differences of opinion on the 718 flat-4 turbo. It's like Brexit, agreement is all but impossible. There are no over-arching answers that will appease both camps.

Suffice to say, I don't recognise the 718 that Jedimaster drove, "weird wheezing and gasping" etc. I think that is more down to driving technique than the fault of the car if I may say so. Some may set out to dislike a car because of the negative press reports on the sound of the engine, and there is no going back from that stance.

As for Porsche scrapping the 2.5 engine and retaining the 2.0, this simply defies all intelligent logic. The 2.5 is the best engine of the flat-4 genre, incorporating variable vane turbo technology and variable timing and lift on both inlet and exhaust camshafts. To use a football analogy, scrapping the 2.5 would be akin to removing your best goal scoring player from the team because of objections to the sound of his/her voice.

Each to our own is the best way forward I think.

I accept I am in a minority on this forum in thinking the 718 2.5 is a brilliant car. The strange thing is, if the 718 2.5 flat-4 turbo is so widely despised and regarded as unworthy of the Porsche brand, how come this thread has over 15,000 views in 6 months? Even more astonishing is my previous 718 CS thread had over 78,000 views over a two year period. Had the 718 been so reviled, surely both these threads would have withered on the vine long ago.

For those still interested, I shall continue to post my personal experiences of owning and driving the 718 CGTS. The posts are essentially focused on the car. To date they have covered PPF and ceramic paint treatments, geometry settings, air filter replacement, and dash-cam installation, as well as a few pretty photos of the wonderful roads and scenery while touring in my part of the UK. At this time of my life the car engine is essentially a facilitator of propulsion. It's the chassis dynamics that hold sway with me, and on that count the 718 GTS reigns supreme.

As Jedimaster already said, Happy Motoring to all.

Brian

 

[Motorhead]

Brian,

I'm not sure that the n/a protagonists are suggesting that the 2.5L engine be scrapped; rather that it be restricted to the S and that the GTS gets the n/a engine, although I'm not convinced that will happen.

One thing of which we can be certain though; Porsche are not going to abandon the F-4 turbo engine and certainly it will be the power-unit of choice for any future mid-engined hybrid vehicle.

Jeff

 

[Jedimaster65]

Just to be completely clear, the "Weird Wheezing and gasping" sounds I referred to were in a 2018 718 Cayman S (not the GTS) that Chester Porsche leant me for the day.

I drove it all over north Wales and did about 200 miles in it. Every time you let the revs drop below about 3k in 3rd or 4th it seemed to make the most unusual noises even for a modern turbo, which were not to my liking at all. Some of it sounded like gurgling! I did not hear this in the new GTS...

Anyway, might explain why Brian not heard this. The car in question is pictured in 'Crayon' below...

 

[jimbo761]

Please continue Brian, as a fellow 718 owner it is nice to read an interesting and balanced review of the ownership experience. Your analogy of the 718 vs 981 battle to Brexit is probably true !

I must say I have found the Porsche ownership experience to be quite surprising so far. The cars are great, and I am very much enjoying driving my base 718 as a DD but what I find truly exceptional is the continual bashing and one upmanship from some other, predominantly 981 owners, (not all I hasten to add.) Perhaps it is the attraction of certain personalities to the brand, but certainly the threads I’ve read on a forum such as this are well thought out, civilised and informative, however other forums can be sadly lacking in manners. In some ways I am left to suspect I may have received a much warmer welcome from the Ford Ka owners club, presuming there is such a thing, and even then I highly doubt I would have received quite as many disparaging comments about owning the 1.0T rather than the holy grail of natural aspiration but nevertheless old inefficient and superseded 1.4 (which apparently is now being re-vamped and will be sold in limited numbers to appease die hard fans...)

Back to the 718 and I would question the logic of whether the 2.5 or even the 2.0 engines will ever be replaced by a new naturally aspirated six for the valid reasons quoted already, not least the development costs incurred so far, however it does leave an interesting question as to where in the range such an engine would sit. Replacing the GTS F4T would be quite a low blow to existing owners and is such a transformation of the existing line up I would be highly uncertain of it actually happening. Interesting times for sure.

Finally, I did derive just a little irony in reading a comment from a certain F6 die hard fan on another forum about not being able to upgrade because the 718 GT4 first year road tax is now too high!

Kind regards

Ps. One thought struck me about resolving the sound criticism and that is to simply unplug the SoundAktor (or said fuse to the SoundAktor) depending on the exact model. There are some detailed guides about how to do this over on 718forum.com. Worst case if you don’t like the result is to simply plug it back in.

 

[Twinfan]

In response to Twinfan and Jedimaster, I completely accept that there are irreconcilable differences of opinion on the 718 flat-4 turbo. It's like Brexit, agreement is all but impossible. There are no over-arching answers that will appease both camps.

Suffice to say, I don't recognise the 718 that Jedimaster drove, "weird wheezing and gasping" etc. I think that is more down to driving technique than the fault of the car if I may say so. Some may set out to dislike a car because of the negative press reports on the sound of the engine, and there is no going back from that stance.

Brian, I agree with you that both the F4T and NAF6 camps will never see eye to eye. Both sides must accept that and move on in my opinion.

With that in mind, your second paragraph above implies that Jedimaster is wrong in is his experience of the car he drove. I find that 718 owners do seem to assume that those of us who don't like them have never driven them or are just blindly repeating the views of others. As Jedimaster and I have said, we've both driven 718 models and found them not to our tastes. I'd like to think I've been very fair in my criticism of the 718, only stating that I personally do not like the engine. Our opinion is equally to valid to yours, which is of course the opposite.

I think your posts are interesting, and people are curious to hear how you're getting on with your car. Long may they continue, enjoy your driving []

 

[Twinfan]

Finally, I did derive just a little irony in reading a comment from a certain F6 die hard fan on another forum about not being about to upgrade because the 718 GT4 first year road tax is now too high!

I think you may be quoting Schmed over on PH, who had actually completely misquoted me. But whatever [8D]

 

[Brian_Innes]

Thank you Jimbo, Jedimaster and Twinfan for your constructive and thoughtful comments. The 718 topic is, and will continue to be a controversial one.

I am relieved that the PCGB forum upholds high standards of civilised and respectful discussion on controversial subjects. For that reason alone, it is my media destination of choice when commenting on Porsche related matters. Within the wealth of opinions expressed on this forum, many contributors offer high quality advice on a wide range of option specification, technical matters, routine servicing, and driving related topics. No matter how experienced, we all need supportive advice from time to time, and this forum is the place to find it. Long may that continue.

Brian

 

[Sunder81]

I agree with Twinfan.

I decided to go for 981 after 718 was already out on the market In late 2017. I had the choice. it would even have been cheaper for me because the 718 GTS wasn't out then, I tried a 718 and like car but the engine throttle response low down, the weird wheezing and gasping, overall droning, etc did not make me feel I was driving a Porsche at all...more like an Audi RS3 or something. I prefered the look of the 981 too so chose a really nice one with low miles. I have driven 3x 718's and not changed my view.

As for what is not to like on 718...how about the SOUND?

I think Porsches mistake was really that they rushed out the turbo engine and should have done more work on the exhaust note, manifolds and mapping maybe.

As Chris Harris said: "The 718 is still a seriously fast machine and a really nice sportscar (just not as nice as the one before!)" Lol!

As for them reintroducing the F6, doesn't that show that they are listening?

Giving a choice solves the problem and keeps everyone happy, surely?

Happy motoring.

Jedimaster,

I think you may have upset a few Audi Rs3 fans comparing the RS3 sound to the 718 FT4. The RS3 may be a one trick pony ( i.e the engine) and suffers from terminal understeer but it sounds way better than a 718 and will probably obliterate any Cayman in a straight line . On track , that's another story though.

Disclaimer: I'm not an RS3 fan but have driven it. I have a 981 base Cayman.

 

[Brian_Innes]

Sunder81,

A perfectly valid observation. In my track day experience when encountering Audi RS's, they are the proverbial pain in the neck. Audi's don't like changing direction from the straight and narrow, any chicane is a major obstacle, and they are on the brakes 100 meters before my Cayman. On the straights, they fly, if only until the next corner hoves into view. I agree with your comments on the engine/exhaust sound. With a very long tract from engine to tail pipe, Audi have more scope to tune the acoustics.

Brian

 

[Sunder81]

Brian I'm presuming the Audi boys don't like it when you overtake them on the bends

I do think that the M2 comp may be more a closer match for the 718S with regards to track times , rather than the RS3.

 

[Brian_Innes]

The BeeEmm M2 Comp may be a closer sparring partner to the 718 CGTS than any Audi would. On twisty technical tracks such as Oulton Park and Knockhill, the 718 CGTS would still come out tops. Pure physics. The BeeEmm engine/gearbox is in the front of the car and therefore cannot match the Cayman when executing quick changes of direction.

This year will probably be my last at track day participation. It's been a glorious 11 years of Cayman motor sport. Knockhill in August, and hopefully, Oulton Park in September will bring the curtain down on that particular aspect of Porsche life. My right hand grip is deteriorating to the point where I'll have to call it a day. Going by the 718 CGTS performance at the Oulton Park RS Day in March, Knockhill will suit the PCCB's very well. It's a big 120mph stop down to 35mph for the hairpin.

Brian